'Attack of the AI' III

How is the AI for you in 2.1.02?

  • I'm too young to die! (Waaay too easy)

    Votes: 25 3.1%
  • Hey' not too rough (Too easy)

    Votes: 89 11.2%
  • Hurt me plenty (About right)

    Votes: 365 46.0%
  • Ultra-Voilence (Too hard)

    Votes: 231 29.1%
  • Nightmare! (Waaay too hard)

    Votes: 84 10.6%

  • Total voters
    794
  • Poll closed .
Something to think about :

You as a Person have to change between with or without flightassists in a comabet - a NPC doesn't need it - he can target you exactly like a robot aims on a target. The NPC'S getting each time a perfect configuration of a ship even off his ability of his ship.
When you are a very very good pilot you get at them max only 90% of the ability of your ship working. Thats true facts of a fighter pilot in real life.

Between seeing something and reaction takes normaly 0.3 sec. in this time the NPC's based on your Hardware can take millions of dicissions and corrections

And the space between 2 stars are so endles that you can flying arround this two points without seeing any other ship in your hole lifetime that are real facts

but the game is simply crashing into something like a shoot em up game and nothing more
 
Just to counter this.

I stopped playing precisely because of how easy and casual the game was.

Fly to Hi RES (In a Cobra) effortlessly kill infinity+1 NPCs make billions of credits, yawwwwwwwwwn.

There was no sense of risk, of achievement. Unlocking a newship felt empty and hollow, risk reward ratio was totally broken.

Now that I have seen reports that risk is back in the game, and oh, I might actually die, helll yea, time to jump back in.

Yep, I can feel the pain in Frontier Development, when they try to please everybody. For my taste a tad too difficult, but maybe I'll do some Haulin' and Explorin' next.

Not a bad game this, raises strong feelings :)

Have fun!

-Jukka
 
Didn't vote in the poll, I'm rather giving my feelings about the present IA. As a prelude I will point out that I haven't yet lost a single ship since 2.1. Had a couple of close calls with the first version of the patch, but luckily didn't come across the insta-kill NPCs with buged weapons.

I've been playing Friday night and yesterday quite a lot. At first I participated in the Mehet CG in my new Python, fitted as an armed trader/mission runner. It has 5D shields with two 0A boosters (can't affors 5A shields for now), lightweight bulkhead, one chaff launcher and a PD. I have two large gimballed pulses, two medium and one large gimballed MC.

I first headed to a Low-RES, as I'm not very familiar yet with the Python in combat, and my previous combat ship was a Vulture. I expected to have a bit of trouble against nimble ships, even with some use of FA OFF.

It was pretty easy there, lots of cops giving a very helping hand, so much that it was sometimes difficult to reach the target in time and scan it with my KWS before they were destroyed. Lots of smaller targets with low ranks, a couple of Condas and Pythons and FDS. Didn't loose more than one ring of shields, never felt I could loose my ship. That was exactly was I was expecting from a Low RES. In my Python it seems that because of the low manoeuvrability, most of my fights turn into a series of head-on passes, where I just out-gun and out-tank my victims. FDS, Condas and Pythons are the only ship I an stay behind for some time, Pythons being the easiest ones to take down.

Next I went to the HI RES. More high ranking enemies, a few 2 and 3 ships wings, more target diversity. With the help of the security forces it was again not too hard, some fights I felt I could have had troubles if I had to take them one on one, again due to the lack of agility of my Python. NPCs were fighting back and firing (except for one FDS), but didn't seem to deal unsual levels of damage. Racked up quite a lot of kills and again didn't feel I could really loose my ship if I stayed alert. Managed to take on a few Elite Sideys and Eagles, they manoeuvered quite well but their shields and hulls still could note cope with my firepower. I also thought that some NPCs had bad loadouts, like Clippers who were facing me and couldn't hit me with their PA istalled on the wing mounts. I think that NPCs loadouts should be proably looked after and be more adapted to their ship.

Came back a bit later and the AI was much more aggressive, struggled a bit more and had to work more for my kills. It felt quite different from the first try. Then I was suddenly set upon a wing of three deadly Eagles I was scanning (I didn't attack), they started chewing my shield pretty good, seeing that the cops were not near, I knew I wouldn't be able to despatch the all three before they could get me, so I just had to flee that one, my FSD charged up just as my shields went offline (I put 4 pips in SYS a soon as I took fire, but unfortunately I had used up all my chaffs). Again I felt that the AI wasn't too hard per se, but that I could still run into trouble, epecially in an assymetrical fight.

I didn't ven try HAZ RES, as I'm not very keen on loosing the Python. Thought about building up a little cheap fighter, turned out I couldn't because I had 20 tons of special cargo (those new items that I got doing missions) and didn't feel like selling them as they probably are used by engineers... Having a place to stock stuff would be very nice indeed now.

So as far as combat, when I'm actively looking for it, the new AI didn't seem so OP in LOW and HI RES.

Now about unwanted combat (interdictions).

Since 2.1 came out, I've been intedicted only by Master and above NPCs, with a majority of Deadly and quite a few Elite. My rankings are Competent/Broker/Pathfinder.

I've managed to win the interdiction game quite often, but still it seems buggy at times, like some NPCs turning the tables in seconds when you're winning, getting an FSD failure when submitting, having an interdiction the very second you eter a system and having the escape vector sending me flying in the sun (I survived but the NPC didn't :D) and having an interdiction starting and stopping immediately but with the sound of the interdiction going on until you exit SC.

The rate of interdictions is quite high, even frantic when running several missions at the same time, sometimes it's just ridiculous and a bit of immersion breaking. As an example, I took 5 missions in Mehet, delivering Non Lethal Weapons, Reactive Armour and a couple of Boom Data deliveries. High ranking missions for most part (Entrepeneur), to see how it would go. I wasn't disappointed.

Seconds after entering my first target system, the usual message telling I'm about to be jumped. Interdiction starts and I see that it's a Dangerous Python. From my previous experience in RES sites I think I can handle it, and also he's winning the mini game. Submit, 4 pips to SYS and I face him, KWS scan and I let loose with all I got right in his face. No reaction. The Python flies as he's fightng me but he doesn't fire back. I finish him and collect 62'000 CR. Easy money, but it feels bad.
I jump back in SC, and two seconds later I get interdicted again, Dangerous Cobra Mk. IV. I don't feel this one, I fight the interdiction and win. I haven't time to take a breath that I'm interdicted again, Dangerous FDL, I immediately know I'm not winning the mini game, the red bar fills very quickly, so 4 pips in SYS and I submit. Come out of SC, FSD failure and I spin helpless for quite a long time and I start to take fire.    ? I boost away and select the nearest system. FSD takes ages to come back online, my shields are melting, I finally jump with 86% hull. Not a close call but a bit angry about submitting and having a FSD failure. Select the closest outpost and g there for repairs.

I head back to my destination, hoping that I won't have to jump out of the system every time I try, if I can't complete my missions, the fine will be quite a heavy one. I jump into the system and get insta interdicted by an Elite Vulture. Great. Escape vector sends me straight into the sun as described before. I survive and escape, the NPC has disappeared. I manage to get to my target outpost and complete the remaining missions without any further interdiction.

Later on I decided to sell al of my cargo, including te special items, and I've been able to travel a lot without any interdiction.

I think that the interdiction system needs a rework, it gets tiring and boring very quickly to know you'll be interdicted every time you take a mission and/or have cargo, and now you receive cargo as mission reward too. Also having chain interdictions is really putting me off. It should be much more random, both in frequency and in NPC level, and more tied to security level/type of ship you're flying/mission you're running. Deadly and Elite NPCs hunting you down for 4 tons of Domestic Apliances? Really?

I feel that the actual AI is a bit of a mess now, especially as far as interdictions go (unwanted combat), too much interdictions and out of whack NPC levels, and it's hurting too much people who aren't playing in a combat oriented way. When looking for combat, I found it "just right" in LOW and HI RES, I can't comment on CZ, HAZ RES and Compromised Nav Beacons.
I think it shouldn't be tougher than this for most situations, but it could be upgraded for some specific places (HAZ RES, HI CZ, high ranking combat missions) for people who really want to look for a hard fight.
 
Little off topic but am I the only one thinking the huge AI difficulty raise in 2.1.0 was just to test the waters for a (near) future Thargoid introduction?
2.1.1 being a simple bug fix
2.1.2 being a drop back to a more regular 'human NPCs' AI level

edit: understand, the difficulty in 2.1.0 AI is still on, we'll just have to wait for these:
latest
 
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i really hope you are right. the peak i saw when i only had ED not horizons was 12000 ish
If you're genuinely not a troll then please go and look at any one of two hundred other discussions about how little steam stats mean. Please don't force everyone to repeat it all here - be considerate.
 
What should a gameplay be ?

Fun - Experience - Getting away from your normal day live - yeah alitle bit of chalanging..

but this is in the actual state simply frustrating and destructive...

there is no way to play...

there is simply stress waiting for you
 
im not going by the steam stats page others post btw. i am using the community hub. if you look up top on steam in community hub for a game you can see how many are in game right now.

The Steam statistics are slightly more reliable than sticking your head out of the window to see what the weather will be like in a weeks time. In the context of long term trends and market research it does a reasonable job as that's what it was created for. Attempting to use it to comment on the popularity of a game is disingenuous, least of all for all those people that don't use Steam.
 
If you're genuinely not a troll then please go and look at any one of two hundred other discussions about how little steam stats mean. Please don't force everyone to repeat it all here - be considerate.

thanks for the insult. and i said before im not using the steam stats page i go by the community hub numbers - and i already said that only really states how many have the frontier elite launcher open in steam. the community ingame now numbers update in real time. i have no idea where to find that steam stats page others have posted. all im going by are the numbers i have seen in the hub and i could tell you exactly how many have the launcher open in that right now. im not trying to speak for the whole of the game players worldwide, but acting like the steam community hub numbers are wrong 100%? that they give no indication at all? you think that all 3000 of them on steam just opened the launcher and are not actually playing?
The Steam statistics are slightly more reliable than sticking your head out of the window to see what the weather will be like in a weeks time. In the context of long term trends and market research it does a reasonable job as that's what it was created for. Attempting to use it to comment on the popularity of a game is disingenuous, least of all for all those people that don't use Steam.

i can accept that the lower numbers may just mean that they decided not to bother opening steam and just ran the launcher. myself i run steam so i can use the overlay to chat with friends while playing and show them screenshots. i never managed to convince them to try it, although it is on one of their wishlists. im pretty sure none of them are interested now. do you want to see screenshots of the community hub page? as i keep saying ITS NOT THE STEAM STATS PAGE RUBBISH. its a LIVE, constantly updating number of people who have the launcher open NOW.

look for the green number up top on this> http://steamcommunity.com/app/359320
 
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On my first attempt with 2.1.02 I happened to be out of my normal systems so was not allied to factions. I decided to do some missions. first was fine, the second one I was interdicted by an elite FDL. I did survive for a number of minutes and did run away for a while to recharge my shields (could have escaped). Security had arrived by now. thought I would give it a go with the help. Didn't last too long. The FDL switched to me immediately I was in range. Knocked my 7A shields down again and destroyed my hull as though it was paper. My Clipper 'A' rated (needs military hull reinforcement) went boom. I am rated Dangerous due to the time I've played, I've seen much better pilots in game than my self and wouldn't rate myself as Dangerous. My conclusion is that the AI is about right and probably the best balance so far (I did play the Beta, that would have made the forums overload if had been the release). As long as I can make credits to progress and I don't loose everything I own then I'm happy, unless it's because I refuse to adapt to the situations I encounter. We should all learn from our mistakes. A game should be a challenge to all and fun for all. As we say Fly Safe Commanders.
 
A game should be a challenge to all and fun for all.
Why?

This presumably means football games are all god-awful and should never have been released as I don't find them challenging or fun. I'll tell EA, they need to know - the poor fools must be on the brink of utter bankruptcy. Good thing you were here.
 
at the actually state of this game it is not fun and not challenging it makes you simply a bounty for overpowered and high cabability NPC's and not a game you have a chance to do anything then runaway or get destroyed

thats my experience at the last days

income 2070 CR on a bounty - ammunition cost 15.000 CR - Repair costs 35.000CR after beeing attacked by a squad ( Deadly -2 / Master 1 ) of pirates in overpowered Cobra 4
 
But seriously, I am a bit sad that they nerfed it quite so hard in just 1 go. And I am a bit terrified by what will come this next week.

Dude, relax. Honestly, some of the sentiments around the new AI make it sound like the sky is going to collapse if people don't stop getting ganked by cheating AI/don't get to breathe raw adrenaline every time a Sidey drops in on them (delete as applicable). You've been playing Elite since before the AI was lobotomised and after, are you saying that all this time your ED life has been a meaningless, joyless hell? Your forum rank suggests not, so just chill out a bit and remember why you're here. It's not healthy when the only way you can be entertained is by requiring others to run through a grinder they don't want and haven't been expected to put up with until now.

Besides, the AI still isn't perfect despite all the current polish. Ramming should be an accident of combat and to be avoided, not the go-to solution and outcome for locking onto a player's butt. There's still a ways to go yet :p

Why?

This presumably means football games are all god-awful and should never have been released as I don't find them challenging or fun. I'll tell EA, they need to know - the poor fools must be on the brink of utter bankruptcy. Good thing you were here.

You know what the sentiment was, don't be facetious :x More people having fun is good, it improves a game's saleability and reputation! At the moment the playerbase is very divided, in a way I haven't seen since...well, ever really. Not a good state of affairs, and one which isn't going to promote challenge or fun if it gets worse.
 
its still early days with it. im sure frontier have all the facts and data at their fingertips and we know they are listening to all views. i enjoyed 2.0. hopefully after my break i can come back in a month or so and find i can enjoy 2.1 again.
 
You know what the sentiment was, don't be facetious :x More people having fun is good, it improves a game's saleability and reputation! At the moment the playerbase is very divided, in a way I haven't seen since...well, ever really. Not a good state of affairs, and one which isn't going to promote challenge or fun if it gets worse.
Yeah but sweeping statements don't help anyone here. There are a huge number of people who weren't having fun 'cos it was like shooting fish in a barrel - I didn't find haz-res's up at all fun at it seemed so damn toothless and pointless, now as a non-combat focused pilot I don't really dare go in - and that's RIGHT.

The horror division happens because some think they should be able to go anywhere/do anything and not really get any hassle - there are calls for ALL interdictions to be purely voluntary - if anything I think the problem is the game was in too much of a middle ground between old Elite and Space Engine and appealed to the "no challenge" crowd while dissatisfying those who wanted a remake of the original. They've got a very very good chance of actually improving sales and reviews by being more true to themselves

Noone would be impressed by or buy the Crysis games if you could have won them all easily walking around without learning to crouch and hide.
 
How did you vote? your posts are about what people are saying and not on what the game is currently like for yourself. Tell us what you would like to happen.
I've posted that already - I like how it is, but think the system choosing how often you get interdicted is a little wonky - I get attacked by NPCs claiming to be looking specifically for me and my haul when I'm on no mission and have no reason for anyone to be looking for me anywhere (zero bounties).

I've said I want there to be enemies who are too tough, that there should be places I am afraid to go - that I think it's mental that people think they should be able to go everywhere and do everything without being under serious threat at any time - and many other things.

My favourite battle in my weeks of hours of play now was just after 2.1 against a dangerous asp that was like ice skating dodging his attacks and chasing each other's tails, and i'm not a big combat pilot - but it's the first time it's really felt like a proper challenging game and the first time I've felt anything like what I used to feel getting pulled out of witchspace by our octagonal friends

And that, in the end, is why I wanted a remake of Elite - there are better options for just space signtseeing imho
 
Have spend last hours in the corvette, always something valuable in the hold (no mission) and I got attacked by Elite Condas all the time. Don't mind fighting elite condas they are pretty easy to deal with in a corvette but it got very predictable. I think th spawning of npcs could definitly need some work, its good that the npcs that attack me are mostly Elite it fits my combat rank (deadly) but that they always fly Condas is weird.
 
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