Engineers Possibly too much over lap between modification ranks.(To Devs)

[h347h]

I think it could help alleviate some frustration from the community by reducing the over lap that some modification ranks have on rolls. No one wants to spend rank 5 rolls that can be worse than rank 4 or rank 3 rolls. The next rank should be a clear upgrade. So perhaps take a look at that to help reduce some of their angst.

Otherwise I find that the system is fine. Once you take to time to figure our how to find specific materials working towards multiple rolls isn't really that big a deal even for polonium.

Edit: I guess a good example is due. Here is possibly one of the worst offenders.
FSD range increase. If you include secondary rolls, you could possibly get a low double roll rank 5 out performed by a high double roll rank 2 mod.

http://inara.cz/galaxy-blueprint/2

 

[Klab]

Have attempted 2 rolls at a grade 5 overcharged powerplant (currently have a grade 4), both times all 3 sliders were in the red - a clear downgrade. Needless to say I didn't take it, but yeah it needs looking at. These things take a lot of time investment, and to get screwed over by 'bad luck' doesn't cut it imo.

 

[Derath]

Have attempted 2 rolls at a grade 5 overcharged powerplant (currently have a grade 4), both times all 3 sliders were in the red - a clear downgrade. Needless to say I didn't take it, but yeah it needs looking at. These things take a lot of time investment, and to get screwed over by 'bad luck' doesn't cut it imo.

what are you upgrading from?

 

[AJW]

I'm inclined to agree with the OP. A 'good' level 4 upgrade may be better than an 'average' level 5. Removing levels 2 and 4 entirely would discourage people from putting a lot of effort into chasing marginal improvements. Part of the problem seems to be that people see upgrading as a 'progression' - it isn't, since each new upgrade to a module you take negates any earlier ones.

 

[DragoonKnight]

I think it could help alleviate some frustration from the community by reducing the over lap that some modification ranks have on rolls. No one wants to spend rank 5 rolls that can be worse than rank 4 or rank 3 rolls. The next rank should be a clear upgrade. So perhaps take a look at that to help reduce some of their angst.

Otherwise I find that the system is fine. Once you take to time to figure our how to find specific materials working towards multiple rolls isn't really that big a deal even for polonium.

Edit: I guess a good example is due. Here is possibly one of the worst offenders.
FSD range increase. If you include secondary rolls, you could possibly get a low double roll rank 5 out performed by a high double roll rank 2 mod.

http://inara.cz/galaxy-blueprint/2

The lowest roll for rank 2 should be equivalent to the highest for rank 1. The lowest for rank 3 should be equal to The highest for rank 2.
That would be fair

 

[Viking84]

The lowest roll for rank 2 should be equivalent to the highest for rank 1. The lowest for rank 3 should be equal to The highest for rank 2.
That would be fair

I agree - at the moment a level 2 FSD range mod can give 14%, and a Level 5 can give 15% at worst... madness! If there where materials everywhere (and werent 150+ different types of them) then it would be fine, but as material gathering is a huge task in itself, then the RNG results are a slap in the face to anyone who has put in the effort to find the materials required...

 

[Roadblock]

I agree - at the moment a level 2 FSD range mod can give 14%, and a Level 5 can give 15% at worst... madness! If there where materials everywhere (and werent 150+ different types of them) then it would be fine, but as material gathering is a huge task in itself, then the RNG results are a slap in the face to anyone who has put in the effort to find the materials required...

Yes, this exactly.

 

[jgm]

You're asking FD to remove one of the positive aspects of the RNG - that you can have a really good relatively low-grade upgrade. Are you sure you want to do this?

 

[Viking84]

You're asking FD to remove one of the positive aspects of the RNG - that you can have a really good relatively low-grade upgrade. Are you sure you want to do this?

Nope, I'm asking them to remove the possibility of a really rubbish grade 5 upgrade Either that, or shower us with materials that can be used for pretty much everything (have say 20 different types instead of 150 or whatever the number is now!), so that we can at least have a few tries at the RNG casino before running out

Edit: 133 materials according to Inara. Who on earth thought that would be fun to gather??

 

[h347h]

You're asking FD to remove one of the positive aspects of the RNG - that you can have a really good relatively low-grade upgrade. Are you sure you want to do this?

Simply to make it more even handed.(note I have good rolls for my FSDs, I just see this really putting off a lot of people who would otherwise really enjoy IMHO one of the best additions to the game yet)

 

[DragoonKnight]

You're asking FD to remove one of the positive aspects of the RNG - that you can have a really good relatively low-grade upgrade. Are you sure you want to do this?

No, we are asking FD to guarantee that a Level 5 upgrade does not turn out worse than a Level 3 upgrade. You would still be able to get a really good low level upgrade.
http://inara.cz/galaxy-blueprint/2
You can see what the current range is for the FSD jump range upgrade. Under what we are asking it would be as follows
Grade 1 - 0 to 4%
Grade 2 - 4% to 14%
Grade 3 - 14% to 25%
Grade 4 - 25% to 35%
Grade 5 - 35% to 44%

 

[h347h]

No, we are asking FD to guarantee that a Level 5 upgrade does not turn out worse than a Level 3 upgrade. You would still be able to get a really good low level upgrade.
http://inara.cz/galaxy-blueprint/2
You can see what the current range is for the FSD jump range upgrade. Under what we are asking it would be as follows
Grade 1 - 0 to 4%
Grade 2 - 4% to 14%
Grade 3 - 14% to 25%
Grade 4 - 25% to 35%
Grade 5 - 35% to 44%

Yeah that looks good. I mean secondary rolls can still allow you to get good rolls for most tiers. (I don't think tier one gets secondary rolls for the most part)

 

[metatheurgist]

Agreed. It's far too much work to get screwed at the last hurdle. Thing is, if the chance of the slider landing at a particular spot wasn't a linear distribution but a normal distribution most of these issues would vanish. It'd be true to life too. Either that or let us accumulate the rolls, so we can get the best if we keep doing the same mod. That way even those that get screwed will eventually get something worth having. You can even call it tinkering.

 

[thorn-]

Despite what I've said all day about Engineers, OP (and followup by DragoonKnight ) are 100% on target.

Level 3 should always be guaranteed to be better than Level 2. And not just by some possible 2% amount. Don't punish people who spent 4-10 hours doing this stupid crap with a negligible improvement.

I'd suggest:

Grade 1 - 5% to 10%
Grade 2 - 15% to 25%
Grade 3 - 30% to 40%
Grade 4 - 45% to 55%
Grade 5 - 60% to 70%

 

[Jabezz]

The RNG is there for one thing and one thing only and that is to extend the shelf life of the new engineers content significantly. It's a lazy way to make this content 'last' at the expense of players time.

Without it you could probably max out on all mods in a couple of weeks. Right or wrong that's the nature of the current beast.

 

[DragoonKnight]

The RNG is there for one thing and one thing only and that is to extend the shelf life of the new engineers content significantly. It's a lazy way to make this content 'last' at the expense of players time.

Without it you could probably max out on all mods in a couple of weeks. Right or wrong that's the nature of the current beast.

This nature of the beast will have to change if FD wants to hold on to their player base. With star citizen, no man's sky, and other spaceship games right around the corner we will have a decent selection of where to spend our money by the end of the year.

 

[Jabezz]

This nature of the beast will have to change if FD wants to hold on to their player base. With star citizen, no man's sky, and other spaceship games right around the corner we will have a decent selection of where to spend our money by the end of the year.

Yep the RNG usage is a large devisive element in the player community for sure, especially when you look at the topic in this thread and the poorly thought out grade overlap.

 

[thorn-]

This nature of the beast will have to change if FD wants to hold on to their player base. With star citizen, no man's sky, and other spaceship games right around the corner we will have a decent selection of where to spend our money by the end of the year.

Last month I bought the SC alpha; on my system, it's not really playable. Framerate too low - we're talking jerk-fest of display.

And despite that - I do *not* consider that cash wasted. I've seen the vids, and know the difference between Alpha and Final. I can see what they've done so far, and where they're going.

People decry SC as "yeah, that's Pay-To-Win", "Roberts is a money pit" or whatever. Well - guess what: I dropped $400 on a HOTAS to play Elite pre-release, and $500 on a new monitor the next month. I spent $900 in a month, to have the best experience possible in Elite : Dangerous. Think I won't pay $50 for a killer combat ship in SC when the final game is released, if the "starter ship" isn't enough for me? And it will be released at some point.

As I said in another thread: Frontier, it's time to wake up.

 

[jgm]

Despite what I've said all day about Engineers, OP (and followup by DragoonKnight ) are 100% on target.

Level 3 should always be guaranteed to be better than Level 2. And not just by some possible 2% amount. Don't punish people who spent 4-10 hours doing this stupid crap with a negligible improvement.

I'd suggest:

Grade 1 - 5% to 10%
Grade 2 - 15% to 25%
Grade 3 - 30% to 40%
Grade 4 - 45% to 55%
Grade 5 - 60% to 70%

You've just buffed the maximum jump range from 45% increase to 70% increase, though.

 

[Brian of Ardagh]

You've just buffed the maximum jump range from 45% increase to 70% increase, though.

Looking at Inara for the FSD upgrade and optimised mass the ranges are currently:

Grade 1 - 00% to 04% <-- I think this should start at 1%
Grade 2 - 03% to 14% <-- This is too large of a gap and overlaps grade 1 so you could see a downgrade.
Grade 3 - 08% to 25% <-- This is much too large of a range and has a large overlap.
Grade 4 - 11% to 35% <-- This has a very large overlap and it's range is even worse than the last grade.
Grade 5 - 15% to 44% <-- The overlap between grade 4 and 5 here is enormous meaning there's a very large chance you'll roll a downgrade.

To me as grade goes up the range should decrease, you are supposed to be getting a better, higher quality, precision upgrade. The ranges here are just the opposite.

I would do this:
Grade 1 - 01% to 14% <-- 13% range
Grade 2 - 15% to 25% <-- 10% range
Grade 3 - 26% to 33% <-- 7% range
Grade 4 - 34% to 39% <-- 5% range
Grade 5 - 40% to 44% <-- 4% range