Engineers New AI a problem? Here are my thoughts...

[The Lavian]

Hi all,

Lately, I've seen a lot of complaints about how difficult to beat the NPCs are with the new AI. To be fair, I don't think I’ve played enough lately for this to have been a problem for me, however, as I normally move high-value cargo through Anarchy systems and try to go for the most high-value missions, I wouldn't be surprised if I start noticing some differences in gameplay.

Back in the 80s, when I first started playing Elite, if you went into an Anarchy system with no preparation and an interesting cargo, you got your butt kicked by pretty much any NPC that happened to notice you. As a result, you learned that doing so was a risk and you took appropriate precautions such as arming up or planning your routes better.

Frankly, I was finding the AI to be only average in combat (I don't seek combat, but I deal with it if it finds me) and personally, if what I've heard about the new AI is true, then in my opinion, it only serves to bring the game back to Frontier's (i.e.: Braben's) original vision and that's fine by me.

Anyway, those are my thoughts - time to log some more hours and see if it's as bad (or good) as people have been saying!



Cheers,

The Lavian

 

[viper666]

Agreed, bugs aside, the new AI is brilliant. People got too used to fish in a barrel rez farming bounties, and when the new AI presented itself, they got a shock, and knee jerk responses followed. I've got my FAS shields up to 490Mj with engineer mods, can still make 2 million in bounties in a haz res. My tips for the new AI, you need a point defence, missiles work now. Pick each fight after considering all the options, NPC rank, NPC loner or in a wing, NPC ship, stronger or weaker.

 

[HappySlayerUK]

Agreed, bugs aside, the new AI is brilliant. People got too used to fish in a barrel rez farming bounties, and when the new AI presented itself, they got a shock, and knee jerk responses followed. I've got my FAS shields up to 490Mj with engineer mods, can still make 2 million in bounties in a haz res. My tips for the new AI, you need a point defence, missiles work now. Pick each fight after considering all the options, NPC rank, NPC loner or in a wing, NPC ship, stronger or weaker.

Picking fights is all well and good until you pick one of those ships with the (only available to NPCs) plasma multi-cannon that will take down a Python's 6A shiels in about 2 seconds and the hull just as fast.

 

[NikodemusDSD]

Somtimes you can not choose the fight. It comes anyway. Like the elite Anaconder that came to end my data delivery mission in a short and absolute way.

 

[Kicks]

Picking fights is all well and good until you pick one of those ships with the (only available to NPCs) plasma multi-cannon that will take down a Python's 6A shiels in about 2 seconds and the hull just as fast.

To be fair, he did say "Bugs aside" and I'm fairly certain that killing a commander in 2 seconds is a bug

 

[jimmys01]

Point defence

Agreed, bugs aside, the new AI is brilliant. People got too used to fish in a barrel rez farming bounties, and when the new AI presented itself, they got a shock, and knee jerk responses followed. I've got my FAS shields up to 490Mj with engineer mods, can still make 2 million in bounties in a haz res. My tips for the new AI, you need a point defence, missiles work now. Pick each fight after considering all the options, NPC rank, NPC loner or in a wing, NPC ship, stronger or weaker.

Any clues to where one obtains a Point Defence turret?

 

[The Lavian]

Any clues to where one obtains a Point Defence turret?

I got mine at Tepertsi.

 

[VR Jay Le Chardon]

Agreed, bugs aside, the new AI is brilliant.

Well said sir - I'm just about to put a carefully worded reply of similar sentiment into another thread

 

[atekido]

The new AI is above average in terms of quality. please do not ever use Brilliant... Ive been playing flight simulators and such for 20 years. And this current AI is not brilliant in its current setup. First the AI's do the same patterns over and over no real variation. Second you can't say bugs aside because the bugs are part of the current AI. Don't try to seperate them when they exist and impact the AI. The kamikaze nature of the ships is crippling. Now for some reason all the Python's I have faced haven't done the "lets play chicken" crap. But every other ship has. It is to costly and there is no counter rewards for the current AI. I won't be doing any fighting until the kamikaze is fixed. People bring up ED is supposed to be a grind at everything.. No. not for people who work. now i understand a lot on here do not know what work is anymore or never did but for a vast amount of us. ED does not have a reward worth the risk of a poorly setup AI causing 15-20 million in losses each death. If it is going to stay like that there also need to be a way to be rewarded equally.

 

[DragoonKnight]

The problem with the current AI is that it is balanced around players having A rated Combat ships. Yeah, the AI is fun when I am flying my Combat Corvette. What happens when I switch from my Combat Corvette to my Python or Asp to do some exploring, trading, or smuggling? Suddenly I no longer have massive shields or armor while the NPCs that attack me are geared for combat. I honestly do not know how people who just recently started in sidewinders are supposed to survive.

I am tempted to go to eravate, buy an E rated sidewinder, and see how long it takes me to earn 100,000 credits without using any of my existing ships.

 

[Titan1978]

current AI is too hard. not fo casual gamers

 

[777Driver]

The problem with the current AI is that it is balanced around players having A rated Combat ships. Yeah, the AI is fun when I am flying my Combat Corvette.

Sorry but that is , I was forced to switch from my T9 and buy a Cobra MKIV in order to complete a delivery mission, decided to cruise around with the ship for a few hours, no issues at all dealing with the AI, this ship is almost as slow as my Python in a straight line, first time I've flown one of these. am still able to high wake away from Elite NPC's, win interdictions, even throw a few punches myself before the cops arrive to provide backup.

I'd hardly call my T9 an A spec combat ship, it is blasting the heck out of any Elite NPC that pulls it out of warp.

 

[Coyote]

The problem with the current AI is that it is balanced around players having A rated Combat ships. Yeah, the AI is fun when I am flying my Combat Corvette. What happens when I switch from my Combat Corvette to my Python or Asp to do some exploring, trading, or smuggling? Suddenly I no longer have massive shields or armor while the NPCs that attack me are geared for combat. I honestly do not know how people who just recently started in sidewinders are supposed to survive.

Good point. You know, I downloaded the update (nothing actually says "2.1 Engineers", it's still "Horizons") after a couple of weeks of not flying, got into the cockpit, looked at the new terminal - and quit the game again. Reading all this about the updated AI doesn't make me even want to take off anymore anyway - I have a Type 9.

 

[peterb2]

I play a non-combat role currently as I have in the past (pre-Horizons), and I find the new NPCs are just as dumb as the old ones. They can't catch me in normal space. No special mods in an A rated clipper. And they don't figure it out ( and come up with a different strategy). They have better weapons but,,,well... they can't catch me.

 

[Backelaer]

What I think is the biggest problem, is the contrast between pre- and post-2.2
We (at least I) got quite lazy concerning NPC's. I'm no combat ace, but one-on-one with an NPC I won every fight. Now I don't suddenly. That can be quite shocking, but come on.. ther really was no challenge in combat before 2.2, unless you were taking on multiple ships.
However, if you just started the game say a month ago, I can sympathise with someone having trouble after the sudden huge bump in NPC skills when they -as a player- just started out.
But NPC's up until Master rank haven't really changed that much. And after the livepatch from today, the lot of them won't be carrying engineered weapons anymore either.

All in all; if the NPC's were skilled/leveled like this from the get go, I bet you'd hear hear any complaints. It's the sudden major increase in NPC skill that kinda cought us offguard I think.

 

[Arjin]

Besides the bugs, and too many NPC's having mods, It just boils down to culture shock, the NPC's should have been like this from the start of the game...



Semi Ninja'd by Backlear..

 

[[wilb]]

Backelaer

Competent

What I think is the biggest problem, is the contrast between pre- and post-2.2
We (at least I) got quite lazy concerning NPC's. I'm no combat ace, but one-on-one with an NPC I won every fight. Now I don't suddenly. That can be quite shocking, but come on.. ther really was no challenge in combat before 2.2, unless you were taking on multiple ships.
However, if you just started the game say a month ago, I can sympathise with someone having trouble after the sudden huge bump in NPC skills when they -as a player- just started out.
But NPC's up until Master rank haven't really changed that much. And after the livepatch from today, the lot of them won't be carrying engineered weapons anymore either.

All in all; if the NPC's were skilled/leveled like this from the get go, I bet you'd hear hear any complaints. It's the sudden major increase in NPC skill that kinda cought us offguard I think.​

I see it as you.

 

[Coyote]

Well, now it happened to me. Flew my Type 9 from one boring system to another, got interdicted by a Federal Dropship, and that tore me apart within about 15 seconds (including a ramming attack). I do think that I should have somewhat of a fighting or running chance. I wasn't on a mission and not a bounty hunter nor had I a bounty placed on me. Nor have I a significant fighting rank. Nor can I hire escorts. (Cripes, the sound of that...)
.
Can't they just up the difficulty for those that want it, at least in Solo? (I can see that it wouldn't be possible in PvP.)

 

[Lucius-Darcia]

Hi all,

Frankly, I was finding the AI to be only average in combat (I don't seek combat, but I deal with it if it finds me) and personally, if what I've heard about the new AI is true, then in my opinion, it only serves to bring the game back to Frontier's (i.e.: Braben's) original vision and that's fine by me.

The Lavian

Are you saying, you didn't played against the new AI and just make a comment through HEARING about the AI? ......

 

[The Lavian]

Are you saying, you didn't played against the new AI and just make a comment through HEARING about the AI? ......

I am saying that I hadn't been playing for a while, saw the comments here, and wanted to get other people's perspective. With regard to the piece you quoted, I was comparing the previous AI with that of other games, and the comparison was not favourable. Now, (and I have been playing mores since I opened the thread) it seems more like the original Elite, which as I said, is fine by me.