The manuverabilty "Blue Zone"

[V'larr]

I have posted videos of the T9 in combat against multiple Anaconda's, Elite Vulture, Elite FAS, Elite Drop ship. All I need is to get the NPC in my sights to either destroy it or make it flee.

If you are simply getting into a constant vertical pitching battle with a more maneuverable ship, you are doing something wrong.

After or before 2.1?

Before 2.1 is very different.

Being able to follow your opponent is integral to combat no matter what the engagement.
I was not able to follow a Deadly Anaconda NPC despite all the tricks in the book. I know how to fly, I know how to game, I know how to aim and shoot and maneuver.
In fact, I could have won the jousting match that the battle became, if I'd equipped myself differently.

But I also own an Anaconda and I know how well it "turns". It's quite clear that Deadly NPC Anaconda was maintaining a "perfect" blue-zone throttle setting the entire time, otherwise no chance would it have been able to give my Python such a hard time.

Hence my comment directed at Mike Evans saying that expecting me, a keyboard & mouse user, to keep up with NPCs in maintaining that perfect blue-zone setting whilst also aiming, flying & thrusting, managing pips, using utility consumables, is all a bit much.

I'm not saying that means the blue zone needs to be easier to access, necessarily, but I am saying I don't feel like I can keep up with the new AI in this particular aspect because of the limitations of the controls available to me.

 

[Jynessa Loraeyn]

I'm assuming this discussion is staying on the point of throttle control and we're all just taking for granted that pip management is maximising manouevrability too? In my experience, pips to engines has a dramatic effect on manouevrability, probably as important as current speed. Staying right on top of your distributor is extremely important.

I've also discovered an odd thing about the Cobra Mk III - its combination of pitch speed and acceleration/deceleration means that just a little downward vertical thrust during a full-speed 4 pips to engines with throttle at 50% forward turn can actually make the ship go backwards, resulting in the speed dropping to below zero and killing manoeuvrability. This means it's better to use upwards vertical thrust when trying to turn hard in the Cobra, as this doesn't have the same effect. If you imagine the curve the ship follows in combination with its facing, you can see why it happens, but it's a pretty big deal if you forget in combat. Odd, eh?

If you want to try it yourself, A-rate a Cobra's thrusters and take it out, 4 pips to engines, throttle in blue, pitch up hard and start turning. Once you're going round and round in steady circles, just apply a touch of downwards vertical thrust.

If you accidentally do this experiment in combat, thus leaving yourself as a stationary target in front of an opponent, the best thing is to panic-boost at as perpendicular an angle to your opponent as you can manage and decide what to do from there. The Cobra seems to be very, very good at accelerating to maximum speed very fast. Slowing down... not so much. Or maybe that's just my mind playing tricks on me when I'm screaming at it to drop back into the blue so I can turn properly.

Speaking of which, awesome as all the new stats in outfitting are, I did notice that we still don't have max acceleration/deceleration stats in the thrusters section - unless I've missed them somewhere?

 

[777Driver]

After or before 2.1?

Before 2.1 is very different.
.

From engineers Beta up to the simplified AI we have now. No point even discussing pre 2.1 AI

 

[V'larr]

Because it gives me the ability to control a fight. 90% of the people that I face try to brawl my Python at close range and get on my tail. I counter this by "hugging" them and match their maneuvers, keeping them directly on top of my Python for the entirety of the fight. They literally can not get away from me without disengaging, at which point I bring my fixed weapons to bear. Turrets let me constantly damage these people and at the range this is occurring chaff has absolutely no effect. You won't see this tactic on my videos yet because they are against skilled pilots that avoid this tactic. Eventually I'll capture footage of this tactic being used, but I don't have one yet because of the fact that I've only recently gotten my recording solutions in place.

Not to disparage you, but...I think anybody can figure out how to succeed, tactically, whilst using turrets. It makes total sense to get closer if the enemy is chaffing.

Usually, turrets are something people resort to only when out-maneuvering an opponent is not an option...which ostensibly means when you're in the largest/slowest ships in the game.

Until recently it was not my impression that the Python was meant to be such a ship. My impression was that the Python is a multi-role heavy fighter - not simply a version of the Anaconda that can land on medium pads.

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I'm assuming this discussion is staying on the point of throttle control and we're all just taking for granted that pip management is maximising manouevrability too? In my experience, pips to engines has a dramatic effect on manouevrability, probably as important as current speed. Staying right on top of your distributor is extremely important.

Exactly why I'm complaining that my fingers are only able to do so much in a given moment of time during combat using a keyboard & mouse.

It's a worthy challenge, but having the AI essentially cheat to be better at it than I can ever hope to be is...disheartening.

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From engineers Beta up to the simplified AI we have now. No point even discussing pre 2.1 AI

Okay, could you link these videos then? If it's something I'm missing that can be accomplished with mouse & keyboard, great, but I'm skeptical.

I am more inclined to believe the AI is simply now programmed to hold onto the perfect center-of-blue-zone. I am not a collection of 1's and 0's and therefore struggle with that level of precision.

So far I'm willing to accept that challenge, but in the case of the Python - it makes me feel like I'm flying my Anaconda through the forward windows.

But rather than suggest "moar shields", "moar guns", or some such, all I'm saying is it could use a few more degrees of pitch rate - which really would be restoring a smidgen of what it once had.

 

[777Driver]

Then please help me to understand what yaw actually does for you. So far it always was a way to fine-tune my aim but never thought about actually use it for maneuvering as yaw is by far the slowest movement of all axes. I'm rolling a lot though (old habit from original Elite flight model) mainly to get into the right pitch alignment. Do you use yaw to get in some sort of a barrel roll perhaps? I have a hard time to believe that yaw is able to speed up anything...

I apply full yaw on pedals into the direction of the turn, decelerate/or accelerate in the optimum speed band, apply roll and then pull the ship through the turn, alternating vertical thrust as needed (this is all done within a few seconds). The added yaw swings the nose onto the target. I would find it very inefficient using purely roll and pitch, there is no way I could fight as efficiently without the full yaw inputs.

 

[Arsen Cross]

Not to disparage you, but...I think anybody can figure out how to succeed, tactically, whilst using turrets. It makes total sense to get closer if the enemy is chaffing.

Usually, turrets are something people resort to only when out-maneuvering an opponent is not an option...which ostensibly means when you're in the largest/slowest ships in the game.

Until recently it was not my impression that the Python was meant to be such a ship. My impression was that the Python is a multi-role heavy fighter - not simply a version of the Anaconda that can land on medium pads.

Just because I use turrets doesn't mean the Python isn't capable of acting as a heavy fighter. Believe me, it is. I just prefer to fly it like it's a heavy. I use beam turrets and do a lot of PVE. With 4 pips to weapons I can fire my two large beam turrets indefinitely without overheating. Especially now that we can tailor our power distributors to our combat style.

Also, it's one thing to be like "OH NOES! CHAFF! Get close!" and it's another to literally stick to your opponent like white on rice. Those 90% of CMDR's I refer to almost always wind up dead locked. I have complete analog control over all thrust and orientation vectors for my ship and use my left hand for lateral and longitudal thrust, right hand for orientation and my feet for vertical thrust. This means that I am in a unique position to take advantage of turrets in a brawl.

Not to mention, by using turrets I'm free to fire on a target while evading fire. You can't do that with gimbals and fixed weapons to the same degree. But our discussion on this is getting a bit off topic.


Back on the topic of ship agility....

I'm assuming this discussion is staying on the point of throttle control and we're all just taking for granted that pip management is maximising manouevrability too? In my experience, pips to engines has a dramatic effect on manouevrability, probably as important as current speed. Staying right on top of your distributor is extremely important.

I've also discovered an odd thing about the Cobra Mk III - its combination of pitch speed and acceleration/deceleration means that just a little downward vertical thrust during a full-speed 4 pips to engines with throttle at 50% forward turn can actually make the ship go backwards

I agree. Pips are just as important as your throttle, if not more so as higher pips means better acceleration. Lower pips means better deceleration (I pull all pips out of engines when approaching a landing pad for example as it helps me slow down faster).

As far as the pitch speed and downward vertical thrust is concerned, I use that religiously to increase my pitch speed. Since I use the long axis of rudder pedals (about 6-7 inches of full analog axis) I can control my vertical thrust in increments of 1ms if I so desire. Because of this I can use my vertical thrusters as brakes in a highly controlled manner to bleed speed quickly to get to the blue zone when I need to. Digital control of downward thrust still works great to do this, and is especially good for when you do want to throw your ship in reverse very quickly... Which is part of how I turn a jousting opponent into a target for my hugs.

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I apply full yaw on pedals into the direction of the turn, decelerate/or accelerate in the optimum speed band, apply roll and then pull the ship through the turn, alternating vertical thrust as needed (this is all done with a a few seconds). The added yaw swings the nose onto the target. I would find it very inefficient using purely roll and pitch, there is no way I could fight as efficiently without the full yaw inputs.

I agree. Yaw is massively under-rated by the majority of Elite players. Yaw is especially useful during an interdiction. Pitch and roll is great, but rapidly yawing back and forth while rolling is actually far more effective than using pitch.

 

[Jynessa Loraeyn]

Exactly why I'm complaining that my fingers are only able to do so much in a given moment of time during combat using a keyboard & mouse.

It's a worthy challenge, but having the AI essentially cheat to be better at it than I can ever hope to be is...disheartening.

I don't find the AI cheats - I think we've just become so used to being able to get on the tail of an AI ship and stay there for the entire fight, even in larger, less manouevrable ships, that that has become an expectation for some people.

When you say out-turned, do you mean the Anaconda was always able to shoot at you and you were never able to shoot back?

Or simply that whereas before you could stay in the Anaconda's blind-spot indefinitely, now, you are presented with windows of opportunity to shoot that it tries hard to avoid, and that you are expected to avoid staying in front of it for too long (for instance by boosting past it)? Combat now seems more like a series of decisions based on anticipating the opponents moves, looking for windows and hitting the opponent when you can, and doing your best to avoid getting hit when you're in their sights as well as getting out of forward arc. There's a flow to it, where you can gain the upper hand for a time, then the opponent if you put a foot wrong and it passes back and forth. I actually really like this.

I recently had one of the best fights against the AI I've ever had when I got interdicted by a Master-ranked Vulture while I was in my Cobra. We ended up using turning battles to regenerate our shields before trying different tactics against each other. I loved it. The end came when the Vulture boosted at the wrong moment and the wrong direction, and I got on his tail. I used a lag pursuit to offset his attempt to vertical thrust round, accelerated just enough and lifted the nose and had him in my sights long enough to destroy him.

I'm not sure if a big ship could get in the blind spot of another big AI ship and stay there indefinitely like the old days, because AI opponents now do use reverse thrust to hold you in front of them if you let them... but that would essentially be completely dominating your opponent! That is asking to win a dogfight in the most total way possible.

But a big ship can definitely manouevre to kill an opponent without taking too much damage. And when you're more manouevrable, you can do things like the old days. I've killed multiple high-ranked Pythons and Anacondas in both RES's and Conflict Zones using a Fer de Lance, and I could stay above them, out of their weapon arc using vertical thrust, and kill them almost without ever taking a shot in return (apart from the turrets). The important thing is that if you end up in front of a big opponent, you need to change that fast, or you're going to be in a world of hurt. Remember that that's true for your opponent if they get in front of your guns though.

As for pip management, I use keyboard and mouse, and I have three buttons on my mouse that I use for pips (balance pips is on the keyboard, but I don't use it much). Vertical and lateral thrusters are on keyboard, using the old FPS controls for jump for upwards vertical thrust, crouch for downwards vertical thrust, and the old lean keys for lateral thrust. I don't really ever find I don't have enough fingers to do things.

 

[Jex =TE=]

Not to disparage you, but...I think anybody can figure out how to succeed, tactically, whilst using turrets. It makes total sense to get closer if the enemy is chaffing.

Usually, turrets are something people resort to only when out-maneuvering an opponent is not an option...which ostensibly means when you're in the largest/slowest ships in the game.

Until recently it was not my impression that the Python was meant to be such a ship. My impression was that the Python is a multi-role heavy fighter - not simply a version of the Anaconda that can land on medium pads.

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Exactly why I'm complaining that my fingers are only able to do so much in a given moment of time during combat using a keyboard & mouse.

It's a worthy challenge, but having the AI essentially cheat to be better at it than I can ever hope to be is...disheartening.

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Okay, could you link these videos then? If it's something I'm missing that can be accomplished with mouse & keyboard, great, but I'm skeptical.

I am more inclined to believe the AI is simply now programmed to hold onto the perfect center-of-blue-zone. I am not a collection of 1's and 0's and therefore struggle with that level of precision.

So far I'm willing to accept that challenge, but in the case of the Python - it makes me feel like I'm flying my Anaconda through the forward windows.

But rather than suggest "moar shields", "moar guns", or some such, all I'm saying is it could use a few more degrees of pitch rate - which really would be restoring a smidgen of what it once had.

The real issue here is why don't you buy a joystick? Presumably you're here for the 10 year plan and will be buying each season so it would be ridiculous if you couldn't shell out £40 for a joystick of even a game pad controller.

 

[nrage]

Meanwhile in keyboard land, I press a button to set the throttle to exactly 50% immediately.

Meanwhile in x55 HOTAS land I press a combination of buttons to do the same

 

[Arsen Cross]

I'm not sure if a big ship could get in the blind spot of another big AI ship and stay there indefinitely like the old days, because AI opponents now do use reverse thrust to hold you in front of them if you let them... but that would essentially be completely dominating your opponent! That is asking to win a dogfight in the most total way possible.

As a dedicated Python pilot and having done a lot of solo PVE, being dangerous ranked and having lots and lots of Anaconda's and Pythons come after me I can firmly say that yes, it is entirely possible to get on their six and stay there for extended periods of time.

However like you explained with your Cobra v Vulture fight, it's very give and take. The AI is no slouch now and it's the best thing that has happened to Elite hands down. Better AI means other players need to up their game which means that when I get to PVP it will be more interesting.

(apart from the turrets)

Hehehehhehehe.

 

[Jynessa Loraeyn]

As far as the pitch speed and downward vertical thrust is concerned, I use that religiously to increase my pitch speed. Since I use the long axis of rudder pedals (about 6-7 inches of full analog axis) I can control my vertical thrust in increments of 1ms if I so desire. Because of this I can use my vertical thrusters as brakes in a highly controlled manner to bleed speed quickly to get to the blue zone when I need to. Digital control of downward thrust still works great to do this, and is especially good for when you do want to throw your ship in reverse very quickly... Which is part of how I turn a jousting opponent into a target for my hugs.

Hah, yes! It's very useful when your opponent boosts and it lets you kick your tail around hard. I usually find a boost of my own at that point will also prevent them getting enough distance to turn. Using keyboard and mouse, I usually have to tap vertical/lateral/forward/back thrust in fast little bursts to manage speed, while holding throttle (mouse wheel) in the blue. So my little throttle line is constantly jumping around. It likely has less fine control than pedals though.

 

[Arsen Cross]

I guess I still don't get it as it sounds to me that you turn around your yaw axis instead of your pitch axis

That's exactly what he's describing. Yaw is a high acceleration action so it quickly gets you started in that direction. Adding roll and pitch at that point means that you then have 3 separate thrust axis pushing your ships orientation in the same direction. You just have to use the appropriate amount of thrust for the rate of speed you want to achieve in your rotation. This is why analog will always be superior for flight over digital.

 

[777Driver]

I guess I still don't get it as it sounds to me that you turn around your yaw axis instead of your pitch axis - which I doubt you actually do. Slightly sophisticated 3D maneuvers are surely not trivial to describe in abstract words and I'm pretty sure someone who already does the same like you would surely understand what you're saying here, but I'm still lost. This is one of the few cases where I think a video actually might help. Do I find your videos under your nic on youtube? Or could you link an example that demonstrates your words appropriately?

I'm not a youtuber, have a bunch of lofi combat vids in a freighter from 2.1 Beta and shortly after it went live https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXm79fS4PrZYTT_SxqSI7zQ

Problem is I am using VR, you don't get to see my ship icon during turns (am generally tracking the target visually) I'll be home later, I'll jump into a pure combat ship and upload a few videos that clearly demonstrates the method.

Edit - If you want we can meet up in private or open sometime, run through some combat maneuvers in identical ships, might be a lot clearer in a live environment.

 

[Jynessa Loraeyn]

As a dedicated Python pilot and having done a lot of solo PVE, being dangerous ranked and having lots and lots of Anaconda's and Pythons come after me I can firmly say that yes, it is entirely possible to get on their six and stay there for extended periods of time.

However like you explained with your Cobra v Vulture fight, it's very give and take. The AI is no slouch now and it's the best thing that has happened to Elite hands down. Better AI means other players need to up their game which means that when I get to PVP it will be more interesting.



Hehehehhehehe.

Yeah, that's my whole thing - it's not likely you can stay in the blind spot forever (indefinitely)... but I've definitely found that even in a big ship, you can still get your opponent in front of you without them being able to fire back effectively for long enough to inflict serious damage. I own a Python and a Clipper, and they're both very capable in combat. I also have a Federal Dropship for mining, and that pretty much flies like a big ship :\

Also hey!

But yeah, turrets are now seriously viable. Especially if you're fully aware of where they're positioned on your ship and manouevre to maximise them.

On another note, anyone going to bring up how seeker missiles can render even a high-ranked AI helpless in seconds once their shields are down? I mean the whole 'target drives' thing? Or is no one allowed to talk about that for fear of the nerf?

 

[Cynaqq]

Before 2.1, we kept saying Elite had a lot of depth despite everyone who claimed otherwise. The depth was always there but nobody knew it because nobody needed it.

Now new AI made all that depth to the game a necessity for basic survival and a portion of the community suddenly feel overwhelmed by the details and subtleties they suddenly have to learn.

Congrats FD and thanks for not proving us wrong.

 

[V'larr]

I don't find the AI cheats - I think we've just become so used to being able to get on the tail of an AI ship and stay there for the entire fight, even in larger, less manouevrable ships, that that has become an expectation for some people.

When you say out-turned, do you mean the Anaconda was always able to shoot at you and you were never able to shoot back?

Yes. Not 100% of the fight, but if I had not been making heavy use of lateral thrusters and chaff, I would have been toast.

I don't agree that AI pre-2.1 was such a pushover, nor that I was able to just stay in a blind spot as much as I please, but I digress. The new AI, at least without Engineer buffs, feels in a good spot to me...most of of the time.
(Which means it's much more time consuming to defeat this AI, with no increase at all to rewards, but that's a different issue.)

I don't quite see a Python as a "big" ship - I see it as a "medium" ship. It's not even that much larger than the Vulture, for instance.

I'm not asking for the ability to stay on an Anaconda's tail all day; I *am* saying the Python oughta be able to at least keep up with an NPC Anaconda without me having to be the most elite HOTAS-equipped virtual ace jockey of the galaxy.

As for pip management, I use keyboard and mouse, and I have three buttons on my mouse that I use for pips (balance pips is on the keyboard, but I don't use it much). Vertical and lateral thrusters are on keyboard, using the old FPS controls for jump for upwards vertical thrust, crouch for downwards vertical thrust, and the old lean keys for lateral thrust. I don't really ever find I don't have enough fingers to do things.

All the buttons on my mouse are used, scroll wheel and all, so I don't have that option; and given all the other keybinds necessary for the game, using keys adjecant to the WASD area is not possible - I've had to leave it bound to the arrow keys.

As a left-handed player, it's rather uncomfortable. Managing pips on the fly, moment by moment, is not possible for me - I have to juggle, sometimes little bits at a time. Bottom line is that max-performance-all-the-time precision is not happening for me.

The real issue here is why don't you buy a joystick? Presumably you're here for the 10 year plan and will be buying each season so it would be ridiculous if you couldn't shell out £40 for a joystick of even a game pad controller.

If you are so fortunately endowed, shall I make a GoFundMe page and let you throw your money at me?
Personally I'd like to continue this discussion without shrugging off any & all players with no means to obtain virtual cockpits.
I do have a gamepad, but I'm not particularly fond of it, as it requires two hands and restricts the ability to reach the keyboard.
I like being able to aim with a mouse and access the rest of the game controls - I don't like feeling that I need a third arm & hand in order to keep an edge in combat.

I've played other combat games of all sorts, and the only game prior to Elite that came close in terms of control complexity was Mechwarrior Online. The addition of the pip system to Elite really complicates things.

But, that's fine...so long as the game is forgiving of my human reaction speeds.

Right now, it seems like to fly the Python successfully, I must either joust, go Turret-mode, or be able to manage 3 different sets of controls all at once with utmost precision...which are things I would expect if I were in a large, bulky, unmaneuverable beast. The Python doesn't seem like it should be that way.

Yet all it would take to ease the burden to an acceptable level, is to get back a smidgen of its nerfed pitch rate.

At this point, I feel like I'm starting to lose focus and ramble - I really should sleep at some point - and hopefully I've made my view & point in an understandable, reasonable manner. I won't be holding any grudges if it doesn't instantly cause a change based on my sole feedback, but I do hope it contributes to an overall picture of what's going on for both Frontier & the community.

edit: Okay, there's a video now, ninjaposting ftw. I can rest less agitatedly.
edit2: Pfft. HMD, throttles, pedals, *and* you just used an all-missile loadout. My Type-9 loadout used to be 3 pulse turrets and missiles, quite effective for ships that can't maneuver as well (and is the loadout I will resort to if my new beam/MC setup fails me on my Python) - but that doesn't "count" as "out-turning an FDL" in my book. ok, really off to bed now

 

[777Driver]

Yawing back and force? You guys are confusing me to no end LOL! I always thought yaw is a horizontal movement, am I living on the moon?

Yaw rotation is a movement around the yaw axis. Am sure you already understand, here's a basic video

[video=youtube;pQ24NtnaLl8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQ24NtnaLl8[/video]

 

[Jynessa Loraeyn]

Yes. Not 100% of the fight, but if I had not been making heavy use of lateral thrusters and chaff, I would have been toast.

I don't agree that AI pre-2.1 was such a pushover, nor that I was able to just stay in a blind spot as much as I please, but I digress. The new AI, at least without Engineer buffs, feels in a good spot to me...most of of the time.
(Which means it's much more time consuming to defeat this AI, with no increase at all to rewards, but that's a different issue.)

I don't quite see a Python as a "big" ship - I see it as a "medium" ship. It's not even that much larger than the Vulture, for instance.

I'm not asking for the ability to stay on an Anaconda's tail all day; I *am* saying the Python oughta be able to at least keep up with an NPC Anaconda without me having to be the most elite HOTAS-equipped virtual ace jockey of the galaxy.



All the buttons on my mouse are used, scroll wheel and all, so I don't have that option; and given all the other keybinds necessary for the game, using keys adjecant to the WASD area is not possible - I've had to leave it bound to the arrow keys.

As a left-handed player, it's rather uncomfortable. Managing pips on the fly, moment by moment, is not possible for me - I have to juggle, sometimes little bits at a time. Bottom line is that max-performance-all-the-time precision is not happening for me.

Okay, I've had that feeling a few times... one thing I've discovered is that for the weapons that have a travel time to target (so not lasers), if you use vertical/lateral thrust a lot, even high-ranked AI will usually miss. This is especially true of PA and cannon shots, which can be devastating if they hit you. Also, I'd say Dangerous, Deadly and Elite pilots are basically the best pilots in the galaxy - you really need to pay attention to combat rank on AI now, and if you see any of those, you need to be prepared for a hard fight. If you can take on a Deadly Anaconda in a Python and win with heavy damage, I'd say that the balance is about right? Or even survive and run away.

On the subject of rewards - yes, I agree that you work harder for the same bounties... but I also discovered that mission rewards are now massively increased. I was taking Conflict Zone missions, each one over a million and one of them at 1.9 million. I made about 10 million in 2 hours. It looks like there's a drive to spread income more to the missions, to incentivise taking them... which I think is good, as it creates a sense of narrative. "I was there, because I was doing this for this reason." I've seen pirate hunting missions that pay over a million too. I like this, as I think it's a good first step towards pushing people towards doing specific jobs, rather than just deciding to go to a RES and fight for hours on end. As this gets refined, I think the gameplay will become more about taking a job and the various hair-raising high-jinks that ensue along the way. At the same time, it isn't stopping people from just doing the RES thing if they want. There's just greater rewards elsewhere.

As for the controls... heheh, funnily enough, I'm left handed too, but I use my mouse right-handed, since back in the day, I don't remember ever seeing left-handed mice.

For me, I prioritised my flight controls over everything else. I figured it was most important to have the immediate moment-to-moment control of my ship's flight in the most convenient place possible, and every other control would take second fiddle to that. I decided I probably wouldn't need to use my 'landing gear' key under high-stress adrenaline-fuelled moments (I was wrong about that, but hey-ho, I'm used to where it is now). So my movement keys replicate the controls my muscle memory have from old FPS games... even boost is my FPS sprint key, and when I rebind keys, it's always the flight controls that get done first and to maximum comfort and I'll just have to find space for everything else where I can. Of course, if you've already got used to a set of controls, then it's hell to retrain out of them, so believe me I sympathise. Even on the lean keys, I still use vertical thrust way more than lateral thrust, so clearly there's an effect there.

 

[wolferr]

Is the center of the, "Blue Zone," the same as 50% throttle? Does that vary by ship? Is there a command to put the throttle in the center of the, "Blue?" Can I automate that setting?

 

[Karla]

Then please help me to understand what yaw actually does for you. So far it always was a way to fine-tune my aim but never thought about actually use it for maneuvering as yaw is by far the slowest movement of all axes. I'm rolling a lot though (old habit from original Elite flight model) mainly to get into the right pitch alignment. Do you use yaw to get in some sort of a barrel roll perhaps? I have a hard time to believe that yaw is able to speed up anything...

I use yaw and lateral thrust to slow me down actually, especially when lining myself up to land. I often boost towards a station when I am really close and by using yaw and lateral thrust all the movement goes into lining up. And when I am lined up, I throttle forwards to stop my lateral movement from taking me off course.

In combat I use the same technique to get directly behind a target. With the Vulture or FAS anyway, boosting with the FDL is counter productive as I end up too far away pointing in the wrong direction and being shot at. But with the Vulture I can be quite close already and boost to the target's rear. I then use yaw and lateral / vertical thrust to stop myself boosting beyond past the target and I'll instead end up facing the target's behind. From there I edge carefully to point at their power plant as they try to throw me off their rear.

This doesn't work so well with the FDL though because the lateral / vertical thrusters and yaw turn the ship more slowly than with the Vulture or FAS.

Different ships have different rates of yaw, lateral / vertical thrust, pitch or roll. So depending on which ship I fly I need to rely on turning using different thrusters.