erm... huh?
See, that kinda makes sense. What does not make sense is that the unavailability of the items (i.e. the 'difficulty' in getting them) is not really a difficulty, is more the amount of time needed to bump into a roll that produces the material. The system rewards the time you spend doing things instead of the skill/effort you put into it. It rewards you for obtusely repeating the same lame action over and over, not for succeeding in something challenging. I would not enjoy being a worker tightening screws at a production plant, and I am sure most of those workers do not enjoy it either. But that is work, they do it because it feeds their families. I don't need to feed my family with Elite. I want to have fun. For like 30/120 minutes (that is my usual playtime window of opportunity). If the game wants me to spend > 4 hrs a day to stay on par with the NPCs (not the other commanders) I'm sorry, but that's not happening. And as somebody was pointing out... if we need a spreadsheet to play this game (keyword is game, not simulator... believe me I play flight sims and there you need knowledge AND skill AND hardware AND spreadsheets etc...), if we need a spreadsheet to play a GAME, the game has failed.
Hey THORN - AWESOME Video on Reddit .. hahahah I don't think I've ever laughed so hard. You nailed it 100%
10x rep for it.. It has profanity so I can't post it here but go to the reddit post here if anyone wants to see it.
https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/4n2nb6/hitler_discovers_elitedangerous_engineers/
10x rep for it.. It has profanity so I can't post it here but go to the reddit post here if anyone wants to see it.
https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/4n2nb6/hitler_discovers_elitedangerous_engineers/
Indeed. I am currently counted as a returning player as I hadn't played for a month or so prior to 2.1 dropping, and have decided to give it a proper go to see if I could find a way to enjoy the new content. I do, after all, enjoy flying around in Elite if I can just find a purpose to it
Sadly I haven't found anything worth pursuing in 2.1 that isn't heavily dependent on luck, so I have pretty much given up... I keep logging back in thinking "it can't be that bad, surely", then an hour later I am ready to throw my joystick through my screen in a frustrated rage.Edit: I'm even one of those funny people who really enjoy the new AI and the danger it brings to the galaxy! But it still isn't enough to keep me playing when the missions are essentially the same, and in many cases horribly bugged, and the main feature of 2.1 turned out to be something that we need to ignore to enjoy....
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I would hope the Engineers give you something positive after hunting for all the materials. My lvl one mod was better than the lvl 3 mod for the power distributor. Wasted time.
Ouch, a bit harsh. because I am german. BUT I have to admit... I had the one or other laugher ...
That is a goot point.
The question for me is: Is Elite a game for the "rest of humanity" or is it like most of the flight sims more a game for a special group with a special mindset ? And how was the original Elite like compared to Elite Dangerous ?
I had no problem with the gameplay in the original Elite and I dont have any with Elite Dangerous (ok, I see some room for improvements but most things are fine for me).
My problem is, that Frontier seem to require a larger number of players to cover up their costs which required to make extensive use of marketing, which generates demand with players who are not compatible with the game they want to create.
Many players today expect a different gameplay because things have changed sind 1984. But it seems Frontier does not want to stray too far from the original gameply style. This creates a conflict, where current players does not understand and accept Frontiers plans. And even among the fans of the original game is a group which thinks, Elite Dangerous should have more improvements in gameplay and less reminiscence for the past.
So I think, Frontier have to decide if they want to make a game compatible to the masses and give up most of them was Elite once means or if they stick closer to the style of 1984 with merely technical and less gameplay improvals and for that accept a much smaller number of players. At the moment ist seems to me they want to drive in two different directions at the same time. That cannot work.
I admit, I belong to the group with a more special mindset and indeed still enjoy the game very much. I would wish we had a storage for cargo&materials, a bit less RNG, a bit more direction and less content blocking like "bring 200 lavian brandy" but with most parts I'm really fine
But thats only me and I am not common Thats not 100% correct. You have taken an engineer for your example which indeeds requires more preparation. If you take some of the initial ones, you will get results faster
But I understand what you mean. It also took me 40 hours to craft something I really wanted to have. And even more time to do it more often. But you cannot calculate that in a linear way. When grinding Materials for one thing, you often take others as well which might be useful for later projects. Since storage is limited, I watched carefully to collect my stuff balanced, so I got a wider collection of items. This helped me greatly to spin the wheel much faster the next time, because I only had to search some of the missing materials. I have done 2x Rank3, 3x Rank4 and 1x Rank 5 roll all on one day. With which I was able to upgarde 3 of my ships. but the preparations for that took me nearly 100 hours.
For me that was ok in the end. During the grind there were moments of cursing I admit
. But I have done this in every MMO with crafting I played, cursing about stupid grinding is mandatory it seems . I have never seen a completely interesting and funny crafting system in games I have played. So from my Point of view, the Engineers are not the worst implementation I ever seen, but surely have room for improvements.Hmm, that does not fit me. I really enjoy building the laser
Ok, maybe not the laser, but I have some ships for which I collected the money, outfitted it and then left it in the hangar without really using it. It was mostly the process of getting and outfitting which motivated me. Ok, I have ships which I love and use regularly but some are really catching dust 
Lol that's a great video.
That is a goot point.
The question for me is: Is Elite a game for the "rest of humanity" or is it like most of the flight sims more a game for a special group with a special mindset ? And how was the original Elite like compared to Elite Dangerous ?
I had no problem with the gameplay in the original Elite and I dont have any with Elite Dangerous (ok, I see some room for improvements but most things are fine for me).
My problem is, that Frontier seem to require a larger number of players to cover up their costs which required to make extensive use of marketing, which generates demand with players who are not compatible with the game they want to create.
Many players today expect a different gameplay because things have changed sind 1984. But it seems Frontier does not want to stray too far from the original gameply style. This creates a conflict, where current players does not understand and accept Frontiers plans. And even among the fans of the original game is a group which thinks, Elite Dangerous should have more improvements in gameplay and less reminiscence for the past.
So I think, Frontier have to decide if they want to make a game compatible to the masses and give up most of them was Elite once means or if they stick closer to the style of 1984 with merely technical and less gameplay improvals and for that accept a much smaller number of players. At the moment ist seems to me they want to drive in two different directions at the same time. That cannot work.
I admit, I belong to the group with a more special mindset and indeed still enjoy the game very much. I would wish we had a storage for cargo&materials, a bit less RNG, a bit more direction and less content blocking like "bring 200 lavian brandy" but with most parts I'm really fine
Good points. Flight simulators can be tricky and also fun as well. That is my background. I'm a flight simulator enthusiast. I've had Hotas since it existed in gaming. I had a home made rudder setup that was quite laughable at one point. Flight simulators can take things to a new level of detail that will appeal to a lot of people. This game is NOT trying to be a flight simulator. The lack of newtonian flight models, the simplified cockpits and dumbed down interfaces for VR/Console games is proof enough that this is not a "Simulator". This is a space game that doesn't know whether it wants to be based in science or in the mind of some deranged person's vision of an empty galaxy full of psychopaths. It did try to stick to the feeling of the originals which gained them some notoriety for building a large playground, flying to solar systems, landing on planets. Its all very done well. They've put their eggs all in the graphics and "bare bones" gameplay. It also created a HUGE galaxy with a great attempt at detail. But then didn't fill it with anything interesting. It filled it with Powerplay, and Rngineers and other ideas that are good - but extremely poorly implemented.
The problem here is like you said. Its trying to drive in 2 different directions. This falls directly on the designer and decision makers lap.
What I dont understand is that Planet Coaster looks like a good game and is well done, fun and creative. Its the exact opposite of ED. Its like you got a bunch of uncreative (but talented) people being pushed into bad ideas. Then being forced into making it work. Now when they want to add anything its a very very hard time to do anything right after that point. They need to build on bad decisions...
I'm pretty casual with this game, playing maybe for an hour or two, a few days a week.
OP, if guessing it takes weeks for one engineer upgrade isn't hyperbole, I think you might be going about it the wrong way.
While collecting materials does have a little bit of RNG involved, the game does tell you which ship types/places have specific materials. Just mouse over the material in the engineer recipe and it'll tell you where it is usually found. This makes it much less tedious when you know to only shoot X kind of ship instead of just shooting/scanning every ship you see.
Personally, I've enjoyed Elite: Dangerous from day one. Maybe I'm an odd one out, but I really feel it is the journey that matters. Sure, I've got goals in mind, but at the same time, there's really no rush to accomplish them immediately and burn myself out in the process.
As I said, maybe I'm the odd one out but I feel that while big ships can do what small ships can, faster; small ships can still do everything that big ships can. Having said that, I really don't know why so many people rush to get what they perceive as the "best" ship or "best" upgrades when the reality is, there is no winning Elite. No end game. Goals are good to have, but I see so many people who do everything in their power to get the most expensive stuff as quickly as possible and then say "there's no content!" They burn themselves out and basically ignore the journey. They neglect to stop and smell the roses so to speak.
The reality is, the grind is only bad if you make it bad. I understand you want to get some engineer upgrades, but at the same time, they aren't the end all, be all of having a good ship whether it's for combat, exploring, mining, trading, smuggling, or just putzing around. They might add some cool effects, but they aren't going to make the game any more enjoyable for someone. Just like my anything a big ship can do, so can a small ship analogy, non-modded things can be used just as effectively as their modded brethren. You're only competing with yourself, so why not enjoy the ride instead of trying to rush to the finish line of a race that doesn't exist?
OP, if guessing it takes weeks for one engineer upgrade isn't hyperbole, I think you might be going about it the wrong way.
While collecting materials does have a little bit of RNG involved, the game does tell you which ship types/places have specific materials. Just mouse over the material in the engineer recipe and it'll tell you where it is usually found. This makes it much less tedious when you know to only shoot X kind of ship instead of just shooting/scanning every ship you see.
Personally, I've enjoyed Elite: Dangerous from day one. Maybe I'm an odd one out, but I really feel it is the journey that matters. Sure, I've got goals in mind, but at the same time, there's really no rush to accomplish them immediately and burn myself out in the process.
As I said, maybe I'm the odd one out but I feel that while big ships can do what small ships can, faster; small ships can still do everything that big ships can. Having said that, I really don't know why so many people rush to get what they perceive as the "best" ship or "best" upgrades when the reality is, there is no winning Elite. No end game. Goals are good to have, but I see so many people who do everything in their power to get the most expensive stuff as quickly as possible and then say "there's no content!" They burn themselves out and basically ignore the journey. They neglect to stop and smell the roses so to speak.
The reality is, the grind is only bad if you make it bad. I understand you want to get some engineer upgrades, but at the same time, they aren't the end all, be all of having a good ship whether it's for combat, exploring, mining, trading, smuggling, or just putzing around. They might add some cool effects, but they aren't going to make the game any more enjoyable for someone. Just like my anything a big ship can do, so can a small ship analogy, non-modded things can be used just as effectively as their modded brethren. You're only competing with yourself, so why not enjoy the ride instead of trying to rush to the finish line of a race that doesn't exist?
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Ha! I hadn't watched that until now but that's really well done - and so 'on the money'. Very amusing! "It's OK. We can still join Mobius."
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Thanks man
Yeah, I posted it here last night and it lasted a couple hours before being removed - which I quite understand, btw, so no hard feelings towards the moderation team. I knew when I was writing the subtitles that the mods might take issue with the adult language ... but, just as Frontier makes "the game they want to play", I made a video "that I wanted to watch."
I didn't know until a few hours later that someone else had posted it on Reddit (and apparently made the front page? WOOT!). 4000 views so far, so I'm pleased it's given at least a few people a nice (if not sad, ironic) laugh.
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Thanks man
Yeah, I posted it here last night and it lasted a couple hours before being removed - which I quite understand, btw, so no hard feelings towards the moderation team. I knew when I was writing the subtitles that the mods might take issue with the adult language ... but, just as Frontier makes "the game they want to play", I made a video "that I wanted to watch."
I didn't know until a few hours later that someone else had posted it on Reddit... 4000 views so far, so I'm pleased it's given at least a few people a nice (if not sad, ironic) laugh.
You made it?
Guilty as charged.
Careful what you wish for...anyhow, you're miles ahead of me, I haven't even worked out exactly what I want to improve on each ship just yet. Durabilty seems to be a real issue in 2.1, with critical systems often failing once you take a bit of hull damage. I'm pretty sure I won't be maxing anything in the way I did during beta but I am just plodding along and not trying to compete with other players 1v1.
I can see how the implementation of the engineers would be extremely frustrating for anyone trying to create the very best pvp build, I can live with it for my aims and play style. If the design aim were to frustrate the PvP minded, then it looks like they got it just about perfect.
I maxed out an ASP and unless the RNG has changed from beta it will take on average four spins to get the best positive effect for each module. I didn't worry too much about the negative effects of a mod. I also didn't bother with special effects on each weapon. I really wish I had paid more attention to the downsides of the upgrades while playing in beta, but I just had fun and flew with reckless abandon.
I can see how the implementation of the engineers would be extremely frustrating for anyone trying to create the very best pvp build, I can live with it for my aims and play style. If the design aim were to frustrate the PvP minded, then it looks like they got it just about perfect.
I maxed out an ASP and unless the RNG has changed from beta it will take on average four spins to get the best positive effect for each module. I didn't worry too much about the negative effects of a mod. I also didn't bother with special effects on each weapon. I really wish I had paid more attention to the downsides of the upgrades while playing in beta, but I just had fun and flew with reckless abandon.
Wow man I'm impressed - the dialogue is very amusing and really well 'placed' if you can see what I mean. Genius.
skurvenyzmrd
Banned
that vid is pure awesomeness [yesnod]
I would agree with ED being about the journey, but the destination isn't supposed to be forgotten about either, and is also important. The problem with this journey is, is a lack of progress in some scenarios. Let's compare my two goals of getting an FSD upgrade from an Engi and my goal of getting an Imperial Cutter. For the Cutter, I know exactly what I need to do, and how to do it. It'll take awhile, but I'll need to raise my rank with the Empire, and I'll need around 300 mil before I bother buying it. I've currently got 50 mil and I'm still a Serf. So yeah, not close at all, but it doesn't bother me. Everytime I log in, I can score some bounties and get a couple mil, or do some missions and get closer to my next Imperial rank, and it's all good, it's part of the journey, and I enjoy it.
For the FSD upgrade, I spend time on a hell of a lot of "maybes." When I work towards the Cutter, I can look back on my hour's work and know exactly how much closer I am, but I can't say that for the Engi upgrade. I may have found what I needed, or in my experience, I probably didn't, and am no closer. If I did find the mats, I still can't say I'm closer because the wheel may spit in my face.
To put this to your race analogy, with the Cutter goal I'm given a map of the very long race path, and I casually jog through and enjoy all the sights and sounds along the way. With the Engi goal, I'm told the finish line is "IDK, somewheres that way," and when I finally see the finish line, the race official gets on the ground, and rolls a d20, and depending on the roll I'm rewarded with a gold, silver, or bronze metal, or they just pick up the finish line and move it twenty miles "somewheres that way."
