Engineers Thanks FDev for 2.1 - I know understand how to have fun (honestly!)

[Mengy]

TL;DR: Do missions, do your other activities, and after some time, you will be rewarded with the ability to get upgrades with all the materials you have collected along the way. Thank you FDev! This is the most amazing update for me since Dec 2014.

Yeah I have to agree, missions are more fun in 2.1. I’ve been running them and other than some that are still broken they are improved. Now I really wish there were exploration missions though, my favorite playstyle has to by design completely ignore the great new missions interface. [sour]

The engineers do provide some nice little tweaks, but if you make getting them your main gameplay goal, then playing becomes a horrible grind, and you're likely to be disappointed by the engineer results at the end. It's better not to focus on them too much.

The beauty of Elite is that it's a game where there is no clear endgame goal. The "Elite" ranks are not like RPG levels where you become more powerful. And my experience from beta is that Anacondas are no more fun to fly than smaller ships, so I don't feel the need to get enough credits to afford one. So I just fly around doing various stuff a bit randomly and that is far more enjoyable.

Wise words, and well said. This is a realization I’ve been coming to over the past week or so. Basically, play the game more like Isinona and less like a min-maxer. The huge ships and amount of credits you amass matter much less to me than the amount of fun I am having doing anything that strikes my fancy.

 

[palazo]

I'm sorry but credits does not mean fun, well not for me anyway. Never understood the need to grind credits either. I have millions but still flying around in my cobra as I find it more fun then the other bigger ships. Will have to try out the python sometime in the future though as I haven't tried that one yet, but no rush.

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According to you. Me, i'm having a great time and love 2.1, and so are a lot of others. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean its failed. I see it like marmite, you either love it or hate it. Me I don't like marmite, my partner loves it. I am really enjoying 2.1 you don't. That doesn't equal failure just because you don't like it.

Your anology is wrong. You don't like the flavour of that sandwich, a lot of other people do. There is nothing rotten about the engineers, just not you cup of tea.

If there is something rotten, no one should eat, I accept that there are people who are satisfied with rotten food, but I think that is wrong.

My analogy is good that this game is sold, is a product , them not gave me, I waited for and I got something that's not right, is not a matter of taste here.

I like Elite and updating "rngeneeriings", which I do not like are the failures that this has, I mean the rotten part.

There are people who can not differentiate tastes, censorship seems that fanaticism their ability to differentiate a product delivered correctly.
If you want to go against 80% of the players and say that has nothing rotten perfect, it's your opinion.
Some is too infatuated to see how I really is.





Sorry if I'm tough, but I do not understand why Frontier does things like that.
And I'm frustrated because I'm trying to play this and can always find something wrong.

It is not personal.

 

[Dragonzord]

According to you. Me, i'm having a great time and love 2.1, and so are a lot of others. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean its failed. I see it like marmite, you either love it or hate it. Me I don't like marmite, my partner loves it. I am really enjoying 2.1 you don't. That doesn't equal failure just because you don't like it.

Your anology is wrong. You don't like the flavour of that sandwich, a lot of other people do. There is nothing rotten about the engineers, just not you cup of tea.

You would be correct if the magnitude of the situations wasn't so great. If a significant part of the player base (in this case, at least half, maybe more) absolutely hate it, then the devs screwed up. Yeah, you can't make everybody happy, blah blah, but when one of your major updates makes some people so frustrated they decide to take temporary leaves of absence from the game, or people just opt to ignore the update completely, then yes, I think it's fair to say the update failed.

But to take your logic, just because you like it, doesn't mean it succeeded.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

You would be correct if the magnitude of the situations wasn't so great. If a significant part of the player base (in this case, at least half, maybe more) absolutely hate it, then the devs screwed up. Yeah, you can't make everybody happy, blah blah, but when one of your major updates makes some people so frustrated they decide to take temporary leaves of absence from the game, or people just opt to ignore the update completely, then yes, I think it's fair to say the update failed.

But to take your logic, just because you like it, doesn't mean it succeeded.

No it doesn't. It's got nothing to do with success. It's to do whether it's enjoyable or not, which I do. Success in this instance is purely subjective. For half of people it is, for the other half it isn't. What would be great if they could get something that everybody likes, bit I don't think that's achievable. From a recent poll I saw (yes I know they are not a perfecton measurement) the other 50% can't decide what they want and wanted different things, so I suspect that no matter what they do, there will be a large amount of players who won't be happy.

We also have no idea how much of the player base doesn't like it. There are around 80000 players on steam alone very few of those are complaining. For all we know it may just be 2 or 3% of the players that are not happy.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

If there is something rotten, no one should eat, I accept that there are people who are satisfied with rotten food, but I think that is wrong.

My analogy is good that this game is sold, is a product , them not gave me, I waited for and I got something that's not right, is not a matter of taste here.

I like Elite and updating "rngeneeriings", which I do not like are the failures that this has, I mean the rotten part.

There are people who can not differentiate tastes, censorship seems that fanaticism their ability to differentiate a product delivered correctly.
If you want to go against 80% of the players and say that has nothing rotten perfect, it's your opinion.
Some is too infatuated to see how I really is.





Sorry if I'm tough, but I do not understand why Frontier does things like that.
And I'm frustrated because I'm trying to play this and can always find something wrong.

It is not personal.

No it's not rotten, just different tastes. There are a large amount of people who enjoy the update as is, as I do.

I don't eat rotten food and I won't play a game I don't enjoy playing. I do enjoy it and I do not think it's rotten. FACT. And a lot of others have no issues either. Maybe it's you that has the problem and not the game. Have you not thought of that.

Can the taste be improved, of course, there is always room for improvement.

 

[palazo]

No it's not rotten, just different tastes. There are a large amount of people who enjoy the update as is, as I do.

I don't eat rotten food and I won't play a game I don't enjoy playing. I do enjoy it and I do not think it's rotten. FACT. And a lot of others have no issues either. Maybe it's you that has the problem and not the game. Have you not thought of that.

Can the taste be improved, of course, there is always room for improvement.

I will play the game in what is not rotten, as I like.

I'll let the rotten engineers until it is changed.

The taste is the same.

 

[ShimEnki]

To OP: I am really happy for you, and that you enjoy the game it is nice reading positive things on the web and also on the forums. It does give a little light in a dull and grey day.
I try to spice up my day be reading positive things. Else I would just be another grumpy old man. So your post was also joyful to me, and I will share it with the very few grumpy friends that I do have...
I the meantime I will still state that I hate the this expansions mechanics, I despise RNG mechanics, I would find it more rewarding moving the lawn or digging ditches than randomly serching for random stuff spawning randomly.
There said it. RANDOMLY.
The next thing will be doing " dailies", I just know it... We have to do daily stuff in order to keep up, just like fragging decaying reputation or merits!! I hate so intensely, that I will rip to pieces my golf doll one more time!!!!
( its a doll/troll where arms legs and head is velcroed on, so you can tear it apart without ruining it)
I have used that more in E: D than in golf!

Cheers Cmdr's

Speaking of Golf...this post hit the ball hard straight and true down the fairway CMDR

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Ignoring the Engineers makes me enjoy 2.1. Which is a little weird since the update was all about them. Oh well. When I get bored I'll come back next patch, it's not like I'm leashed to the game.

and like others like you and me, that makes 3 for 3. (CQc, PP and now RNGeng) The positive is that the odds on favorite sits with FD on # 4

 

[ShimEnki]

YES it was good. Because it was a way to get credits faster. In Elite Dangerous, CREDITS, mean FUN. CREDITS mean more ships to buy, more ship to equip. More equipped ship (several purposes) mean more things to do. When FRONTIER will understand this point, maybe it will have more IN, than OUT !

You understand CMDR that acquiring in game power goes against a few dedicants here that lUUv 2.1 for its anti player power configurations and pro player prey hoof prints?

 

[DragoonKnight]

Yes and 2.1 is but a small part of the game. If people want to make it the whole game for themselves, that is their choice, but they shouldn't come and complain that they have to grind for everything while they ignore all the other parts of the game that are available to them.

I haven't been to an engineer yet. I will at some point in the future, but there is no rush. I just don't understand why people act like the engineers are going to disapear next week and go crazy trying to get the materials, the game is going to be around hopefully for another 7-8 years, possibly longer. What is the rush?

And some are complaining about the semi randomness off stuff. Nothing wrong with it. It non of it was semi random it would all be the same again and again and get boring very quickly. At least now, we are left guessing what will happen in a USS. I dropped in one that said zero threat. It was an ambush. They aren't all ambushed, but if they were all the same, it would be totally boring. Limited RNG is good, and that is what we have.

And from what I can see, there is nothing gated behind walls. You can do these missions no matter what rank you are, you can mine no matter what rank you are. There is no gating. Of course if you choose not to do the activities to get the matierials, that is your choice, but they are readily available. They are just not handed to you on a plate.

So what exactly does FD have to show for Season 2 then? It has been 6 months.
Driving an SRV on mostly empty planets
Materials and Synthesizing FSD boosts
Engineer content that is almost impossible to reach

Everything else is accessible with 1.6. Since the only new content that we have had in 6 months is almost impossible to make use of, we have a right to be angry and disappointed.

 

[Cmdr Thrudd]

YES it was good. Because it was a way to get credits faster. In Elite Dangerous, CREDITS, mean FUN. CREDITS mean more ships to buy, more ship to equip. More equipped ship (several purposes) mean more things to do. When FRONTIER will understand this point, maybe it will have more IN, than OUT !

True to a point, thing is when you have lots of credits it can also sort of kills the game because you've been focusing a bit too much on the credits as a motivator. Happened to me when I hit 800 million and suddenly realised I had a fleet of ships and enough money to do anything I wanted with them. I'd focused on the money so much I'd forgotten to just enjoy the flying about space part. Having loads more fun since I reset my save, kicking about in a Cobra just being a space wanderer.

IMO Elite has a really good early game, it bogs down after a while and the elder game is pretty poor. Getting credits too fast actually ruins the best part of the game by letting you skip the most balanced part of it.

 

[DragoonKnight]

As you said, Frontier sold you season of updates, yet here you are crying all over forums after 2.1

No comments

Season 2 is made up of 2.0, 2.1, 2.2, 2.3, and 2.4
That means we are 40% of the way through what they promised and very little of it is any fun because it is mostly inaccessible.

 

[Dragonzord]

No it doesn't. It's got nothing to do with success. It's to do whether it's enjoyable or not, which I do. Success in this instance is purely subjective. For half of people it is, for the other half it isn't. What would be great if they could get something that everybody likes, bit I don't think that's achievable. From a recent poll I saw (yes I know they are not a perfecton measurement) the other 50% can't decide what they want and wanted different things, so I suspect that no matter what they do, there will be a large amount of players who won't be happy.

We also have no idea how much of the player base doesn't like it. There are around 80000 players on steam alone very few of those are complaining. For all we know it may just be 2 or 3% of the players that are not happy.

Sorry, I didn't really say what I thought "success" was. Really, a major update should be considered a success if the majority of the player base likes the update (disregarding the bug and polish side of the update, thought I think 2.1 did a good job in that regard). If an update is released and 90% of the player base hate it, then the update failed, as the goal of any major update is to introduce new elements for the players to enjoy, and if 90% don't enjoy it, it failed. Conversely, if 90% of the player base love the update, then it was a success, as most the players enjoy the new content.

Now I'm not saying we're at a 90/10 split over the Engineers, I was just giving an extreme hypothetical to illustrate "success" or "failure" of an update. And "success" is extremely important, as it's tied to how many players enjoy the update--because if most of the players don't enjoy the update, and it fails, it's a terrible sign about the direction and future of the game. I'm sure you'll agree with me when I say how great it would be if this game is still around in several years, but that's tied to how much and how many of us like the updates. I talked three of my friends into buying Elite. I also talked them out of buying Horizons.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that if 40-60% of a playerbase don't like a major update, it failed. (Obviously the gravity of the failure depends on the exact percantage) Because even 40% is a HUGE chunk of the players that otherwise enjoyed the game. As for how many of us are on which side, the forum polls aren't super credible, but just looking around I see more against it than for it. Sure, "people with problems post more," but the forums should have a regular amount of people who get on to talk about this game they love. And Engi defenders seem rarer than the dislikers.

And I checked Steam--we're still had mixed, but it's getting more negative reviews, many of which specifically point out 2.1, so I don't know where this "very few of those are complaining" is coming from. And looking at Steam charts, it...is not great. The game is on a downward trend, and while 2.1 brought it back up, it went back down to what it as before in a couple days. Not that many Elite players use Steam, but you brought it up.

 

[Cmdr Thrudd]

So what exactly does FD have to show for Season 2 then? It has been 6 months.
Driving an SRV on mostly empty planets
Materials and Synthesizing FSD boosts
Engineer content that is almost impossible to reach

Everything else is accessible with 1.6. Since the only new content that we have had in 6 months is almost impossible to make use of, we have a right to be angry and disappointed.

Prior to 2.1 I didn't advise folks getting Horizons, the 2.0 patch wasn't really that engaging. It was technically impressive but lacking on the game play side. 2.1 changes my opinion on the Horizons season as I've found it to be a great addition to the game. I strongly disagree that the Engineer content is difficult to reach. Reset my save and within 2 days I had unlocked a couple and applied some upgrades to my cobra. Ok so I'm not a fresh faced newbie so someone fresh to the game would have to do some research and reading to learn a bit about them but that's always the case with this game. What 2.1 really improved for me was the way that the engineers is integrated into all parts of the game. Whatever you're doing you're going to get something that could be used to improve your ship. This has enriched my game immensely. Prior to 2.0 I never flew past a planet and thought 'I'll just pop down there and see what materials I find in that canyon' or see a USS and just drop into it to scan/salvage some stuff on the way to a mission target.

 

[Mephane]

Now I'm not saying we're at a 90/10 split over the Engineers, I was just giving an extreme hypothetical to illustrate "success" or "failure" of an update. And "success" is extremely important, as it's tied to how many players enjoy the update--because if most of the players don't enjoy the update, and it fails, it's a terrible sign about the direction and future of the game. I'm sure you'll agree with me when I say how great it would be if this game is still around in several years, but that's tied to how much and how many of us like the updates. I talked three of my friends into buying Elite. I also talked them out of buying Horizons.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that if 40-60% of a playerbase don't like a major update, it failed. (Obviously the gravity of the failure depends on the exact percantage) Because even 40% is a HUGE chunk of the players that otherwise enjoyed the game. As for how many of us are on which side, the forum polls aren't super credible, but just looking around I see more against it than for it. Sure, "people with problems post more," but the forums should have a regular amount of people who get on to talk about this game they love. And Engi defenders seem rarer than the dislikers.

There is also 2 types of failure:

1. The update doesn't make the game any better.
2. The update makes the game worse.

For example, CQC was a feature that for me, didn't add anything of value to the game, but for those who liked it, sure, more power to them, it didn't hurt the game in the end. Whereas 2.1 has for me mostly ruined the game, by turning the almost every paradigm on its head for which I previously loved the game.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Have some rep OP. It seems people already pointed out you feel wrong about the game I guess we somehow try to convince each other that our feelings matter. It is just a game, and grind it and chase something in it for sake of it...I don't feel it that way.

 

[NMS]

There is also 2 types of failure:

1. The update doesn't make the game any better.
2. The update makes the game worse.

For example, CQC was a feature that for me, didn't add anything of value to the game, but for those who liked it, sure, more power to them, it didn't hurt the game in the end. Whereas 2.1 has for me mostly ruined the game, by turning the almost every paradigm on its head for which I previously loved the game.

3) 6 months waiting for something new and profound. Expectation growing. And then came this.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Also you know you don't have to find justification for your dislike for the game, right? You don't have to make up numbers, don't have to use biased polls to back your point. You don't like 2.1 due of a), b) and c). Cool beans, it is your opinion.

Steam numbers? They are same and there's lot of reasons not really pay attention to them. Only FD knows true numbers and if Engineers doesn't really click with lot of players they will improve them.

Just move on and take a break. No, FD won't turn ship around just for you.

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Season 2 is made up of 2.0, 2.1, 2.2, 2.3, and 2.4
That means we are 40% of the way through what they promised and very little of it is any fun because it is mostly inaccessible.

Ohh, it is accessible alright, but not in a way lot of people expected (*cough*min/maxing*cough*).

Yes, 2.1 is antithesis of a grinder and min/maxer.

 

[Bacalao]

If you like missions.... and I do not

Then only take the missions that enhance the way you play. Going to do some bounty hunting? Take a mission to kill pirates or ships from faction x. Going to travel? Take a couple trade/courier missions on the way, make a little money, gain a little rep and maybe get a little bit of materials. There really isn't a downside. Before I head out I check the mission board, if something looks good, I'll grab it and do that, I was probably going to do that at some point anyway.

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And Engi defenders seem rarer than the dislikers.

Talked it to death pre-2.1, talked it to death beta-2.1, talked it to....ugh, maybe we're just tired of addressing the same silly "concerns". For instance, I love the engineers update, elite has never been this fun. I've never written a steam review or any other official rating and often abstain from pointless forum polls.
-
People like to complain, you underestimate just how much.

3) 6 months waiting for something new and profound. Entitlement growing. And then came this.

Fixed that for ya.

 

[CMDR Charybdis]

After best part of a year away playing mostly Guild Wars 2 I've now picked up 2.1 and found myself enjoying the new content immensely. Like the OP I'm off doing varied things and just letting the materials accumulate while having fun.

The wisdom/experience shared on the boards and fan pages is really helping as well. H/t to you guys and gals for that.

While I can understand the frustration of the min/maxer in trying to get to time gated content, however it really is a consequence of the style of gameplay. Trying to impose an endgame on something that isn't intended to have one is never going to work, no matter how bad the analogy is.

 

[Alex Ringess]

I'd like to post something positive, because last night I finally understood how I can enjoy the Engineers update.
Well, admittedly, it took me 30 hours with 2.1 to get it, but I hope that I can help all you fellow CMDRs with my little insights.
Because during the first 25 hours, I found it very frustrating and grindy. But now it's fun again. Why?

Insight #1: I stopped pursuing specific ENG upgrades. There are literally hundreds of blueprints. For some of those, collecting the materials is very easy. For some, it's really difficult. And it makes sense! From a gameplay perspective, why should everyone run around with only the best upgrades within the first week already?

Insight #2: There is some sense to how specific materials can be found, depending on activity, circumstances, system and system status. We are just learning the rules, so bear with us! This has been a common feature of this game. Frontier has never told us the rules outright, we always had to learn it as a team effort. Kudos to this thread .

Insight #3: Missions are the way to go! Besides the current bugs, they have become really varied now! Many are little stories in themselves, influenced by your reputation, rank, and the current faction status. Even with surprising twists and branches. I think this is what FDev want us to do: explore the Galaxy through those missions. This has always been the key concept of Elite: a lone CMDR roaming the Galaxy. As a nice side effect, they give you the rarer materials for engineering. And I suspect there might be some unique missions which will reveal the major storylines.

TL;DR: Do missions, do your other activities, and after some time, you will be rewarded with the ability to get upgrades with all the materials you have collected along the way. Thank you FDev! This is the most amazing update for me since Dec 2014.

Hi,

So, I read.
For me, your point 1 is irrelevant. You will not plan to upgrade your lasers or your thrusters before having a good power plant and a good power distributor (the same for your shiel generator), its obvious that you MUST pursuing specific ENG upgrades, because this is the right way to upgrade your ship, starting with your power plant and your power distributor (and at the very first, you FSD, as you must unlock hidden ENG to do things right if you never sell or buy on black market ). And in that perspective, FD is litteraly forcing all the players base to play the game they want, not the game the players base want to play (so, saying "litteraly forcing" is a bit too much, as we can totaly ignore ENG). Anyway, ED is suppose to be a sandbox, a place where each player can do everything he want, not a place like Disneyland where players must go there and there juste because FDev changed the meta and the gameplay to fit with their agenda.
Personnaly, I did missions during the very first time I began to play to make some cash and fly in a better ship than the sidewinder, and when I choosed to grind for leveling up my Empire rank (and here, the keyword is "I choosed") it was because I wanted to fly the Imperial Cutter and having one before 2.1.
All the "activities" that FD proposed to me doesn't fit to me. The only one that fit to me is the one I choose and want to do, because it's fun, flying Internet space ship in total freedom and being able to do all you want in a 1:1 scaled galaxy full of stars ! That what Frontier sell me, not disneyland in the space xD

I dont want to say some negatives words here, that's not my point. I still envoy the game, but (and because) I dont care about ENG. I mean, I still playing as ENG doesn't exist

[Edit some words, some grammar too, 'cause my french is better than my english ^^]