2.1 = Too much tension

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

Some (more) thoughts on life in the Elite universe, post 2.1

Having had some bad experiences with my original save post 2.1 (deadly iCourier with mega-weapons against a fully-laden T6 miner), I decided to wipe my save and start again, with the intention of relearning combat against opponents of a level I could actually handle - ie. to git gud.

I'm now flying an A-rated Adder, 4 pips to Sys and all the advice I can find online.
The problem I'm finding is that I can no longer have a relaxing time, stooging around running cargo, missions, exploration or whatever - every single flight is fraught with tension, as I watch contacts, keep track of whoever is behind me, always ready to submit-boost-wake.

At this level, you HAVE to run missions - a shielded Adder with everything else given over to cargo (no fuel-scoop) gives a maximum of 18t cargo, which means a good trade route will give me maybe 50k CR per trip. Yes, I can make more with rares, but that really means a fuel-scoop, so I'm down to 14t and a jump range of 16LY - so > 10 jumps to get the profits up to 100k. Now an A-rated Cobra III is going to set me back around 9m CR, so that's an AWFUL lot of trading runs if I don't take missions.

Missions obviously mean interdictions (as if I wasn't getting them anyway) and that sometimes means a Competent FAS (I'm Mostly Harmless). Now a laden Adder can't outrun a FAS quickly enough not to get shields stripped by lasers (don't talk to me about missiles - yes I have point defence, but it's not infallible) and I'm a long way from 'gud' enough to fight it. I ended up in a jousting fight, just trying to minimize the amount of time I was under fire - which fortunately lasted long enough for security to show up and help me out. Although after watching 3 Vipers fail to take down the FAS I went back in to finish it off myself. Now admittedly that was fun, but I'd prefer not to have to worry about that happening EVERY trip I take.

So my point is, that at this 'newbie' level, the game isn't fun any more. Yes, I can survive (mostly), but I'd like to enjoy myself a little bit more.
If I was totally new to ED, I'd have quit by now - it's only because I'm stubborn and I know how much fun it CAN be, that I'm sticking around.

Anyway, that's just my opinion - do with it what you will

 

[Demascus]

Though I really do enjoy the new a.i., i will agree for a non combat oriented new pilots are going to have a lot of trouble. I have had to make a few rules for 2.1...

1. Never have a bounty of anykind
2. Never carry cargo, even if its 1 unit.
3. Quit power play.

With these few simple rules I almost never get interdictded. On the bad side your gameplay options are now limited to bounty hunting and exploring.

 

[Dorohedoro]

My God........ Elite Dangerous: Complainers

 

[Jasper c]

What a shame, a great space simulator like Elite Dangerous has become unplayable! Sorry, It's probably payable if your an Elite bounty hunter, but to the normal Trader, Explorer or Miner the game is just not fun any more.
Let me explain, I am not a 'gunslinger', I'm a trader and explorer.When I get jumped on (notice I said when I get jumped on, because it now seems inevitable that I will be dragged out of hyper space), then I will also be blown out of the sky.
Even though the NPC super guns have been fixed, the new AI means that death is guaranteed.
Don't get me wrong, I've been playing the game for 9 months, I've had my fair share of fights and it's not like I'm flying an old-tin-can, I have a Python with 2 beam lasers, 1 pulse laser, 2 fragment canons, military grade hull and all 'A' upgrades. All of which are no help when you've been dragged out of Hyperspace, had your Frame Shift Drive restricted by a large factor so you can't escape and you just can't shake off the NPC on your tail because they either 'elite' or 'master' and their rapid fire weapons are ripping through your shields and hull.
The game has been turned into a 'shoot-em-up', at the expense of everyone else.
I'm very disappointed in the direction this game has gone.
I have enjoyed myself for the last 9 months exploring and trading, there's always been that 'grind' to the game where you took 2 steps forward and 1 step back, but now it's like taking 1 step forward and 3 steps back.

 

[Argus Leadhead]

Some (more) thoughts on life in the Elite universe, post 2.1

Having had some bad experiences with my original save post 2.1 (deadly iCourier with mega-weapons against a fully-laden T6 miner), I decided to wipe my save and start again, with the intention of relearning combat against opponents of a level I could actually handle - ie. to git gud.

I'm now flying an A-rated Adder, 4 pips to Sys and all the advice I can find online.
The problem I'm finding is that I can no longer have a relaxing time, stooging around running cargo, missions, exploration or whatever - every single flight is fraught with tension, as I watch contacts, keep track of whoever is behind me, always ready to submit-boost-wake.

At this level, you HAVE to run missions - a shielded Adder with everything else given over to cargo (no fuel-scoop) gives a maximum of 18t cargo, which means a good trade route will give me maybe 50k CR per trip. Yes, I can make more with rares, but that really means a fuel-scoop, so I'm down to 14t and a jump range of 16LY - so > 10 jumps to get the profits up to 100k. Now an A-rated Cobra III is going to set me back around 9m CR, so that's an AWFUL lot of trading runs if I don't take missions.

Missions obviously mean interdictions (as if I wasn't getting them anyway) and that sometimes means a Competent FAS (I'm Mostly Harmless). Now a laden Adder can't outrun a FAS quickly enough not to get shields stripped by lasers (don't talk to me about missiles - yes I have point defence, but it's not infallible) and I'm a long way from 'gud' enough to fight it. I ended up in a jousting fight, just trying to minimize the amount of time I was under fire - which fortunately lasted long enough for security to show up and help me out. Although after watching 3 Vipers fail to take down the FAS I went back in to finish it off myself. Now admittedly that was fun, but I'd prefer not to have to worry about that happening EVERY trip I take.

So my point is, that at this 'newbie' level, the game isn't fun any more. Yes, I can survive (mostly), but I'd like to enjoy myself a little bit more.
If I was totally new to ED, I'd have quit by now - it's only because I'm stubborn and I know how much fun it CAN be, that I'm sticking around.

Anyway, that's just my opinion - do with it what you will

Try the mine launchers. Seriously. They are like a godsend for traders now. I posted in another thread earlier about them and my experience in a T6 against a dangerous Python. The results were spectacular.

Just try 'em! Put one of each kind on, boost away, and laugh as the ship chasing you gets thrown around and pulverized.

Edit: also, if PD turrets aren't working that well for you, try an ECM. It causes guided ordinance to lose lock on you, just don't forget to bind it to a fire group.

 

[Fox White]

Try the mine launchers. Seriously. They are like a godsend for traders now. I posted in another thread earlier about them and my experience in a T6 against a dangerous Python. The results were spectacular.

Just try 'em! Put one of each kind on, boost away, and laugh as the ship chasing you gets thrown around and pulverized.

Edit: also, if PD turrets aren't working that well for you, try an ECM. It causes guided ordinance to lose lock on you, just don't forget to bind it to a fire group.

Another point with mines; it isnt A bad idea to gently sway left and right or up and down to make the field a little bigger. Did this in a conda with 6 launches and it is fun. Just hope they stay that way.

 

[ShimEnki]

Try the mine launchers. Seriously. They are like a godsend for traders now. I posted in another thread earlier about them and my experience in a T6 against a dangerous Python. The results were spectacular.

Just try 'em! Put one of each kind on, boost away, and laugh as the ship chasing you gets thrown around and pulverized.

Edit: also, if PD turrets aren't working that well for you, try an ECM. It causes guided ordinance to lose lock on you, just don't forget to bind it to a fire group.

I totally agree. I just tried these mines out today and ...big smiles. As soon as we enter normal space submitting to interdiction, I face the target and fire 2 torpedos (they hate eating these) and lock onto my high wake target...boost to get the pirate in a chase mode and empty mines for him to dance around...delicious.

BUT...when you have that occassional NPC with module killers...your boost, your FSD and in my case today everything including life support went off...so, until they actually bring these NPC eng mod thieves to justice, sometimes none of this works.

 

[Cmdr Thrudd]

I've really not found this to be the case I'm loving the 'new player' experience. I also reset one of my chars and have found the game to be more or less the same as before with regards to the number of interdictions. The first few days I was super wary because... 'scary new AI' stories but now I'm not feeling the tension any more than I ever did. I had a few tough interdiction right away as soon as I restarted but overall the number seems to be the same as it was before and I've been running a TON of missions. Those I have had have been scary looking deadly FAS and such but I've just escaped the same as I always have.
Funny thing is a few of my friends that also reset seem to get interdicted WAY more than I do, like 5x-10x more. It could be the area of space they're playing in..or maybe I'm just in a really quiet place. Hard to say.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

Try the mine launchers. Seriously. They are like a godsend for traders now. I posted in another thread earlier about them and my experience in a T6 against a dangerous Python. The results were spectacular.

Just try 'em! Put one of each kind on, boost away, and laugh as the ship chasing you gets thrown around and pulverized.

Edit: also, if PD turrets aren't working that well for you, try an ECM. It causes guided ordinance to lose lock on you, just don't forget to bind it to a fire group.

Unfortunately the advice post 2.1 all ultimately comes down to:

Build a ship for running away in.

Again, it comes back to the fun-factor - it's a lot less fun than it was and I don't imagine it's any fun at all for a newbie in a Sidey. Especially if you haven't been on the forums enough to find out how to survive an interdiction by a superior ship.

 

[Argus Leadhead]

Unfortunately the advice post 2.1 all ultimately comes down to:

Build a ship for running away in.

Again, it comes back to the fun-factor - it's a lot less fun than it was and I don't imagine it's any fun at all for a newbie in a Sidey. Especially if you haven't been on the forums enough to find out how to survive an interdiction by a superior ship.

Ok, but why would any trading specced ship expect to stand toe to toe with any combat specced ship?

Some people say they're interdicted constantly and by deadly, dangerous, and elite ranks, others are hardly interdicted at all and by a wide variety of ranks. The only people who have the real info on who and what is involved in interdictions is FD. In the last patch notes, they even addressed the issue of high ranking NPCS spawning too frequently, so they are obviously aware of the problem.

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=259444

I gave you sound advice on how to handle these situations, others have confirmed that this advice does indeed work. If FD decides to change the spawn rates either way, they'll do it.

If you want to win stand up fights, a trading ship isn't the way to do it, but with mines you actually stand more than half a chance.

Use the advice, or don't.

It's up to you.

At least a new player in a sidewinder doesn't have to worry about insurance, making learning the same way we all did (trial and error) quite affordable.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

I've really not found this to be the case I'm loving the 'new player' experience. I also reset one of my chars and have found the game to be more or less the same as before with regards to the number of interdictions. The first few days I was super wary because... 'scary new AI' stories but now I'm not feeling the tension any more than I ever did. I had a few tough interdiction right away as soon as I restarted but overall the number seems to be the same as it was before and I've been running a TON of missions. Those I have had have been scary looking deadly FAS and such but I've just escaped the same as I always have.
Funny thing is a few of my friends that also reset seem to get interdicted WAY more than I do, like 5x-10x more. It could be the area of space they're playing in..or maybe I'm just in a really quiet place. Hard to say.

With respect, you're not having the 'new player experience', you're having 'experienced play in a small ship experience'.

90% of players don't join the forums - that means that 90% of players are learning as they go along, which means they're flying ships with B and C rated modules, no mines, no pip management, no submit-boost-wake (I'm pretty sure the AI is boosting too now, anyway) and they're probably dying. A lot.

Also, I agree that the frequency of interdiction isn't any higher, but my FEAR of interdiction is a lot greater.

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Ok, but why would any trading specced ship expect to stand toe to toe with any combat specced ship?

Some people say they're interdicted constantly and by deadly, dangerous, and elite ranks, others are hardly interdicted at all and by a wide variety of ranks. The only people who have the real info on who and what is involved in interdictions is FD. In the last patch notes, they even addressed the issue of high ranking NPCS spawning too frequently, so they are obviously aware of the problem.

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=259444

I gave you sound advice on how to handle these situations, others have confirmed that this advice does indeed work. If FD decides to change the spawn rates either way, they'll do it.

If you want to win stand up fights, a trading ship isn't the way to do it, but with mines you actually stand more than half a chance.

Use the advice, or don't.

It's up to you.

At least a new player in a sidewinder doesn't have to worry about insurance, making learning the same way we all did (trial and error) quite affordable.

Sure, but where does a multi-role ship fit into this picture?

Also, the point you, and a lot of other people, don't seem to be grasping, is that 'surviving' does not equal 'having fun'.

 

[Argus Leadhead]

With respect, you're not having the 'new player experience', you're having 'experienced play in a small ship experience'.

90% of players don't join the forums - that means that 90% of players are learning as they go along, which means they're flying ships with B and C rated modules, no mines, no pip management, no submit-boost-wake (I'm pretty sure the AI is boosting too now, anyway) and they're probably dying. A lot.

Also, I agree that the frequency of interdiction isn't any higher, but my FEAR of interdiction is a lot greater.

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Sure, but where does a multi-role ship fit into this picture?

If it's specced for trading and not combat then I think it's pretty obvious. Multi-role simply means a ship can be outfitted for multiple roles like combat OR trading OR exploring. If one tries to do all of the roles at once, it's just going to end badly for that person. there is some leeway in multi-role ships so one can use them for piracy or other hybrid roles but when faced with a pure combat fitting, they will still have a marked disadvantage; which is to be expected since they aren't specialized.

What a lot of it boils down to though is the ability of individual pilots to adapt to changing situations and over come them, regardless of ships of fitting.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

So, if I fit a ship with FSD Interdicted, SRV, Disco scanners and a cargo rack, then I should expect to spend my entire time living in fear?

You see, I didn't used to, and that's why some of us don't like 2.1.

 

[Cmdr Thrudd]

With respect, you're not having the 'new player experience', you're having 'experienced play in a small ship experience'.

Yeah thats why I put it in quotes.
It was more to see what the early game, broke and in a rubbish ship was like against the new version of the game.

Sure, but where does a multi-role ship fit into this picture?

This I do see as a little bit of a problem, I agree that non combat fit vessels are having a harder time of it. Some do ok others are feeling the sting a lot more. A bit of refitting and a bit of combat practice helps a lot though. When I first logged in to 2.1 I got my butt kicked a few times in my Asp on my main, it was a bit of a shock! I'm mainly a trader/explorer/miner/mission runner (I found combat pretty boring before) mainly flying an anaconda and just melting everything with no effort so I was rusty as hell. I figured out pretty fast I needed some practice so loaded up the training missions and spent all evening fighting through those, getting a feel for the new AI. To be honest I found it great fun So much so that I'm less interested now in the big ships and having fun in small ones now but thats beside the point. Multirole is a bit different from before, from what I've seen we need to adjust fits to be a bit more defensive and be prepared to run vs combat ships now. I NEVER used to fit higher grade armour or extra armour on my ships. Now I do, same goes for point defence. It doesnt guarantee survival but it certainly helps give you a bit more time to escape.

 

[Lobstris]

then I should expect to spend my entire time living in fear?

Yes. That's what Elite should have been about from the start. OK, it should perhaps be more dependent on the security level of the system, and less dependent on the missions you're taking, your combat rank, and the RNG gods than it currently appears to be, but...

You see, I didn't used to, and that's why some of us don't like 2.1.

Fair enough, but that's also the reason why some of us find 2.1 to be the most interesting Elite update since Gamma. The Engineers don't really come into it.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

A question on mines:

What do they do at 3,000ft above a planet surface? Just hang there?

 

[Argus Leadhead]

So, if I fit a ship with FSD Interdicted, SRV, Disco scanners and a cargo rack, then I should expect to spend my entire time living in fear?

You see, I didn't used to, and that's why some of us don't like 2.1.

Way to miss the point completely. If you want to fight while trading, your going to have to sacrifice trading effectiveness (usually significantly) to be able to hold your own in combat properly. If you want to explore properly, you're going to have to sacrifice weapons and more expensive modules for lighter once to get even a respectable jump distance. If you want to have high profit trading, your (again) going to have to sacrifice things to make that happen.

There is no ship in the game that can achieve the highest potential in multiple roles at the same time. You have to pick and choose or else you're basically shooting yourself in the foot.

If you continuously shoot yourself in the foot and refuse to listen to advice, don't expect sympathy. It's a pretty simple concept.

Fear is something you have to deal with yourself, nobody else can make you not afraid. What they can and have done, is give you advice on the tools you can use to deal with it yourself.

Pretty much: take it or leave it.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

Yes. That's what Elite should have been about from the start. OK, it should perhaps be more dependent on the security level of the system, and less dependent on the missions you're taking, your combat rank, and the RNG gods than it currently appears to be, but...



Fair enough, but that's also the reason why some of us find 2.1 to be the most interesting Elite update since Gamma. The Engineers don't really come into it.

In my opinion, FD fundamentally changed the rules of the game with 2.1.
You, and others, are loving it.
Some of us, not so much.

As I said in my first post, it's not the same kind of fun any more.

If you happy bunnies understand why some of us are sad bunnies, we'll all get along much better

 

[Thetele]

I have mostly fun in 2.1 while using my Python. But i have heavy combat build, with cargo rack and collector limpets. Non combat fitted ships, tradings ships and multi role builds are now mostly useless. I liked taking out my other ships but now they are useless because they can't take much damage anymore.

And I can't use my smaller ships anymore because i would lose my commodities that I need for crafting. I have about 20 tons of commodities that are needed for crafting. Who´s vulture has that kind of cargo space?

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

Way to miss the point completely. If you want to fight while trading, your going to have to sacrifice trading effectiveness (usually significantly) to be able to hold your own in combat properly. If you want to explore properly, you're going to have to sacrifice weapons and more expensive modules for lighter once to get even a respectable jump distance. If you want to have high profit trading, your (again) going to have to sacrifice things to make that happen.

There is no ship in the game that can achieve the highest potential in multiple roles at the same time. You have to pick and choose or else you're basically shooting yourself in the foot.

If you continuously shoot yourself in the foot and refuse to listen to advice, don't expect sympathy. It's a pretty simple concept.

Fear is something you have to deal with yourself, nobody else can make you not afraid. What they can and have done, is give you advice on the tools you can use to deal with it yourself.

Pretty much: take it or leave it.

Okay, so I'll try to explain it so that you don't miss the point:

I don't want to 'achieve the highest potential in multiple roles at the same time'. I want to fly a multi-PURPOSE ship, which can adequately do multiple things. So that I can choose when to fight and when to run away, not always fight or always run. This is what I used to be able to do.

I've taken all the advice on the forum, which is why I've only seen the rebuy screen once - and that was when I took on an iClipper with my SRV.
I'm not 'gud', but I'm 'better' - and yet, somehow, the game is less fun.

That's it, the bottom line, the fun I was having is no longer available to be had, since 2.1, because if I try to have it I'm 'shooting myself in the foot'.

That's my complaint: Accept it or ignore it.