Engineers Sad State of Affairs

I haven't played for 2 weeks now, Last time I was on I was being followed by and NPC that had it's shields and Armor reset to 100% every time I jumped to super or dropped out again, The cops showed up almost instantly so when they would show up I would run and the NPC's would interdict me again, except when he did He would have 100% shields and armor as if he made it to station and back instantly, I contact FD and what do they say about this behavior? It's a FEATURE?!?!?! The game left me with absolutely no choice but to be whittled down to death, well I logged off and didnt let the NPC kill me over such dumb mechanics, Then two weeks later (today) I log on all bounties clear no active nor dormant, I jump to super head for a station, I get interdicted by a pirate telling me to drop my cargo, WHAT CARGO?? then he kills me... Rage quit...
 
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Hi Athanos,

Believe me I feel your pain.8-((

There must still be problems with npc's, I too almost gave up after the ridiculous amount of interdictions that I couldn't win or get away from.

I believe it has been reported many, many times and is being looked into, hopefully it will get sorted soon.:cool:)
 
Hi Athanos,

Believe me I feel your pain.8-((

There must still be problems with npc's, I too almost gave up after the ridiculous amount of interdictions that I couldn't win or get away from.

I believe it has been reported many, many times and is being looked into, hopefully it will get sorted soon.:cool:)

I have not seen one post from Frontier since the last patch dropped on June 3rd regarding all the posts after June 3rd regarding NPC behavior. Many negative posts regarding the NPC's and the new AI, not one response from Frontier.

If anyone has actually seen an official response from Frontier since June 3rd please post a link, I would like to see what they have to say about all the requests to make changes to NPC behavior and the new AI.
 
Hi,

Here is what I found the other day :-

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=257889

At least that proves they are aware of the problem and are looking into it.:cool:)

There is not one post from Frontier in the thread you linked since the last AI patch dropped on June 3rd. Since before June 3rd Frontier has been completely silent on the subject of your link and the subject of a lot of people think the new AI is still to over the top and makes the game very "not enjoyable" to a lot of people.
 
Hi,

Hmmm, I didn't notice that.8-((

It looks like a wait and see situation, never a good thing when players are very unhappy.

As players will leave the game and not return.

I've docked mu conda and gone back to a cobra for now, not an ideal situation but better than loosing a whole lot of credits.
 
So an NPC going instantly back to 100% hull & shield is a game feature!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
No it's poor coding and game design.
 
So an NPC going instantly back to 100% hull & shield is a game feature!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
No it's poor coding and game design.

Yeah I was Flabbergasted with the response from Techsupport, I also don't understand why it takes so long for them to roll out fixes, They seem capable of doing so pretty quickly when big patches drop, but then they just hunker down and do nothing for the longest time, It's like they don't have enough money to pay their programmers to fix things, and only pay them for major patches and 1 or two hot fixes afterwords. I'm starting to see a pattern here, and it's not looking so good. Their silence is extremely irritating.
 
It feels like two issues are being conflated.

Being repeat interdicted is correct, if someone's after you, perhaps they;ve been sent after you why would they give up just like that. A player wouldn't. That's a feature and what support were likely referring to.

NPCs auto regenerating all health is obviously a bug and should be reported, cos it's clearly silly.

Just common sense surely?
 
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I'm not part of a Faction, I had no bounties of any sort, I had no Cargo. for what would an NPC want to kill me then? Because psycho NPC? ok cool np, my complaint for that is over, and you are incorrect Support specificly said that NPC's regenerating Shields and hull was 100% Feature. I'm not making something out of nothing.
 
I'm not part of a Faction, I had no bounties of any sort, I had no Cargo. for what would an NPC want to kill me then? Because psycho NPC? ok cool np, my complaint for that is over, and you are incorrect Support specificly said that NPC's regenerating Shields and hull was 100% Feature. I'm not making something out of nothing.

Oh the being interdicted for nothing? Yes that seems off, I was talking more about being repeat interdicted in general, lots of folk complaining about that but it's right as far as I can see.

NPCs interdicting without motivation does seem off.

With the NPCs auto-regenning, I though I'd read from another poster this was fixed in 2.1?

If it was fixed then clearly Frontier acknowledge it's an issue. I don;t know, seems like it's still about regardless. So I would bug report with all the detail.

Sorry but honestly I find it really hard to believe support reckon NPCs regenning hull/shield in impossible time between interdictions is a feature.

Do you have the support message saying that?
 
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Cool!! Also any chance for that link to Mark Allen's post?

I think with this it might be complicated due to the peer 2 peer networking.

But to put it in a simple scenario, if you NPC is chasing YOU, like the scenario behind the scenes being a NPC has been paid to hunt you down, it definitely should persist hull damage, shields, shouldn't it. (of course shields will recharge over time, or it may actually be possible the NPC has shield cells but that she behave "correctly".


I think in the image support pretty much say what I said above, that they believe this issue is fixed with 2.1? So clearly there is an admission that was broken and health should persist and they've sorted it all out?

Actually then again Mark Allen's post might be talking about something else?


It's kinda hard to see what support are replying to there :

"More of a feature, the NPCs will be respawned at the new location."

But my reading of that and given their comment above, I suspect support are just being honest about the implementation....

NPC's don't persist, they spawn and respawn, is just how the game is. In that respect NPCs spawning "fresh" is just a "feature", but it's also it's clearly a bug (or at least something that should be fixed).
 
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Yeah the formatting is really weird, I replied to CMDR Tronador, with "These are not the Extremely Powerful Npc's" then CMDR Ares responded to my comment with "More of a feature, the NPC will be re-spawned at the new location sorry". I'm okay with bounty hunters being hired to kill me for something i did bad, that makes sense, But NPC's not persisting is not fun, That and constant interdiction leave you with Dead for sure. Sometimes you need to run to wear your enemy down, but if they just respawn every time with 100% everything, is not a fun "Feature". Overall this is a sad state of affairs Elite has found itself in.

And let me clarify about my first post, The NPC bounty hunter that had followed me at first was a Vulture, after two weeks of not logging on once, I get on and am Interdicted by a different NPC in a different ship (Viper mk3) with a different name (still in the same system). The Vulture was clearly a bounty hunter and he was clean, only doing his job (that's A OKay) I was wanted so it makes sense he was after me, The Viper mk3 was a wanted Pirate, when we dropped from super cruise he said give me your cargo, ME: What cargo? (Not even a limpet in my hold) HIM: Prepare to DIE!!. So My complaint isn't about Powerful NPC's or Unwarranted Attacks (it's space, lots of psycho's) My MAIN ISSUE is the fact that nothing in this game is persistent except stations and major structures. NPC's NEED TO BE PERSISTENT.

Here is the link refering to Mark Alan's post as requested. https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...of-fire-quot-bug/page11?p=4002121#post4002121
 
Cool!! Also any chance for that link to Mark Allen's post?

I think with this it might be complicated due to the peer 2 peer networking.

But to put it in a simple scenario, if you NPC is chasing YOU, like the scenario behind the scenes being a NPC has been paid to hunt you down, it definitely should persist hull damage, shields, shouldn't it. (of course shields will recharge over time, or it may actually be possible the NPC has shield cells but that she behave "correctly".


I think in the image support pretty much say what I said above, that they believe this issue is fixed with 2.1? So clearly there is an admission that was broken and health should persist and they've sorted it all out?

Actually then again Mark Allen's post might be talking about something else?


It's kinda hard to see what support are replying to there :

"More of a feature, the NPCs will be respawned at the new location."

But my reading of that and given their comment above, I suspect support are just being honest about the implementation....

NPC's don't persist, they spawn and respawn, is just how the game is. In that respect NPCs spawning "fresh" is just a "feature", but it's also it's clearly a bug (or at least something that should be fixed).

support is confused because this has been such a long standing bug. Not quite sure how far back but ever since I started back just before 1.3, this issue existed - it is just more obvious and magnified with 2.1

the difference is back then it was acknowledged as a bug, or perhaps this one support person is new or made a mistake calling it a feature.

The issues are a bit separate:

1. NPC full heal - long standing bug due to the way game creates instances. All player states are preserved between moving from one instance to another, but all NPCs are respawned.
what does respawned mean? It means NPC state - damaged, shield down, whatever - is reset to a 'new' copy of that NPC being created in the new instance, and this NPC has default state which is full hp, shields, etc

fpr example - as far back as my start at 1.3, if you fought an NPC in a system, but then you jumped away or NPC escaped / jumped away, then you were no longer in same instance as NPC. You could "see" his wake trail, you could give chase and find him deeper in system somewhere, but he would now be a respawned fresh version with full heal.

they never fixed this,,and I am guessing it has been so long this way that by now support mistakenly thinks it is a feature

2. Spawn at me - this is where 2.1 magnifies it but it also existed long before 2.1
when an NPC "chases" you, other than the time you are in name instance with him, the NPC doesn't actually travel,,use fuel, spend time, etc all the things a player does.

He simply teleports and spawns at your location, hence called spawn at me ability. The magnified issue with 2.1 is that asked on RNG an NPC has chance of spawning to interdict you if not doing missions but carrying cargo, or a chance if doing delivery or sourcing missions

the problem is that assigned NPCs like these mission related NPCs, do not travel to find you, they just use the spawnet at me ability. So whenever the game RNG says they should have found you - e.g, the 'hey there's the ship with the loot we heard about' speech we hear so much - it spawns the NPC at your location

the problem with 2.1 is this NPC will spawn in current system, interdict you, maybe you fight and some damage to him - a little or a lot, doesn't matter. Because if he lives, when you escape or jump out to next system to get away - surprise, there is a chance that the RNG says assigned mission NPC intercepts you again - and now the bizarreness begins-

you just jumped away from a system behind you, where NPC Bob was damaged and behind you - but when you exit your hyper jump, you see NPC Bob already there in front of you, saying 'oh look, there's the ship with the loot we heard about'. Because he was spawned at your location, and of course now full healed as well.

until they allow for persistent damage to stick with NPCs across instances and respawns, you get the current meta: one rule for players, another for NPCs ( other prime examples like NPCs that can jump farther than max LY distance of the ship they are in, never need to stop to refuel or scoop, etc)

before 2.1 when NPCs were so dumb, all of these advantages were needed just so NPCs could barely be half even. But now that NPCs are so much more competitive, it's why these old bugs are now much more relevant
 
Lmao!

" the NPC will be respawned at the new location, sorry"

It's like, yeah we know it happens, tough y.

Gotta laugh at that!

Instancing FOR THE WIN!
 
support is confused because this has been such a long standing bug. Not quite sure how far back but ever since I started back just before 1.3, this issue existed - it is just more obvious and magnified with 2.1

the difference is back then it was acknowledged as a bug, or perhaps this one support person is new or made a mistake calling it a feature.

The issues are a bit separate:

1. NPC full heal - long standing bug due to the way game creates instances. All player states are preserved between moving from one instance to another, but all NPCs are respawned.
what does respawned mean? It means NPC state - damaged, shield down, whatever - is reset to a 'new' copy of that NPC being created in the new instance, and this NPC has default state which is full hp, shields, etc

fpr example - as far back as my start at 1.3, if you fought an NPC in a system, but then you jumped away or NPC escaped / jumped away, then you were no longer in same instance as NPC. You could "see" his wake trail, you could give chase and find him deeper in system somewhere, but he would now be a respawned fresh version with full heal.

they never fixed this,,and I am guessing it has been so long this way that by now support mistakenly thinks it is a feature

2. Spawn at me - this is where 2.1 magnifies it but it also existed long before 2.1
when an NPC "chases" you, other than the time you are in name instance with him, the NPC doesn't actually travel,,use fuel, spend time, etc all the things a player does.

He simply teleports and spawns at your location, hence called spawn at me ability. The magnified issue with 2.1 is that asked on RNG an NPC has chance of spawning to interdict you if not doing missions but carrying cargo, or a chance if doing delivery or sourcing missions

the problem is that assigned NPCs like these mission related NPCs, do not travel to find you, they just use the spawnet at me ability. So whenever the game RNG says they should have found you - e.g, the 'hey there's the ship with the loot we heard about' speech we hear so much - it spawns the NPC at your location

the problem with 2.1 is this NPC will spawn in current system, interdict you, maybe you fight and some damage to him - a little or a lot, doesn't matter. Because if he lives, when you escape or jump out to next system to get away - surprise, there is a chance that the RNG says assigned mission NPC intercepts you again - and now the bizarreness begins-

you just jumped away from a system behind you, where NPC Bob was damaged and behind you - but when you exit your hyper jump, you see NPC Bob already there in front of you, saying 'oh look, there's the ship with the loot we heard about'. Because he was spawned at your location, and of course now full healed as well.

until they allow for persistent damage to stick with NPCs across instances and respawns, you get the current meta: one rule for players, another for NPCs ( other prime examples like NPCs that can jump farther than max LY distance of the ship they are in, never need to stop to refuel or scoop, etc)

before 2.1 when NPCs were so dumb, all of these advantages were needed just so NPCs could barely be half even. But now that NPCs are so much more competitive, it's why these old bugs are now much more relevant

Great explination mate, puts things into perspective, I hope Fdev Take the proper steps to fix this.
 
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