Re-brand E: D as "Bad Casino Simulator: In Space!"

[Kurdran]

It has been said so many times that its hard to truly believe thats a sincere question, but as the match preview wont start for a few minutes I'll humour you...

Thanks, I guess.

The random elements in ED are nothing like the random elements in a casino. To start with, in ED the cards are stacked in favor of the player, and the player get to influence the odds him/herself. In a casino, the cards are stacked against the player and if you start influencing the odds in your favor you'll be kicked out and possibly prosecuted. In ED, you can just play the game and you'll inevitably end up with mods. In a casino you cant just stroll around and inevitably walk out with a profit. In ED the materials are a byproduct of the gameplay, you are supposed to play the game and get materials as you go, in a casino you play exclusively for the potential money. In ED people have been trading, mining, bounty hunting and exploring without getting any kind of mod, material or commodity in return, whereas nobody will play a slot machine if there is no possibility for monetary rewards. Its just an incredibly daft analogy, only slightly less silly that the whole 'every car is the same why RNG in engineers oMG!!?!?!'.

Thanks for assuming I am a troll btw, just because a random dude told you so. Bravo.

I didn't say the random elements in ED were exactly like those in a casino. The analogy had to do with entry barriers. In a casino you can go to any table/machine to either lose your money or make some (the average player will lose way more than he/she makes, granted), but in ED you are forced to play against the RNG gods (whether stacked for/against the player is irrelevant) 7 different times before you get a chance to "roll" for what matters: your module modification. You missed the gist of the analogy by a mile.

Sorry if I offended you assuming you were a troll based on what some random dude said but, to be fair, the attitude you convey in your writing is eerily similar to that of a proper troll.

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If a minor computer game mechanic actually makes you angry, it's time to step away!

Oh I have. I do hope FD sees the light sooner rather than later. When they do I might play again.

Clarification: I do think it's a bit misleading to call this a "minor computer game mechanic"... it was the major selling point of 2.1

 

[babelfisch]

How are they not RNG based?

Before 2.1 you would not know what happens when you enter a USS, now you can scan them and reduce randomness.
USS spawns are influenced by system state and your location in the system, the same is true for NPCs.
Materials spawn at different locations, occasions, situations - read the ingame information about it.
Special Effect change is already confirmed for the next major update.
The rolls are not totally random (rolling a dice gives you different results, going to an engineer gives you always the same results within a defined margin).

As said above, I can see many ways to improve the system.

PS
Mission spawns are also influenced by system and BGS.
Mission USS are not random at all.

My thread makes no attempt whatsoever at suggesting improvements. Do try to criticize only what's written, please.

But my comment does. Don't see what's wrong with that.

 

[frostypaw]

"If Robigo can't fix it, we don't want it!". That would make a great sign.

LOL

 

[Kyokushin]

RNG need a bit of care and rebalance, but in overall 2.1 is very good. There is no reason to so much hate

 

[Kurdran]

Before 2.1 you would not know what happens when you enter a USS, now you can scan them and reduce randomness.

Good point. There's still an RNG behind it all though.

USS spawns are influenced by system state and your location in the system, the same is true for NPCs.

Yet they still have an RNG algorithm behind them.

Materials spawn at different locations, occasions, situations - read the ingame information about it.

But the spawns themselves are still RNG based. I did read the ingame information about them, thanks.

Special Effect change is already confirmed for the next major update.

Just the special effect? That's a shame, the rest of the module stats will still behave like throwing dice at a roulette wheel.

The rolls are not totally random (rolling a dice gives you different results, going to an engineer gives you always the same results within a defined margin).

Rolling the dice gives you different results within a defined margin: said dice has a limited number of faces it can land on.

Mission spawns are also influenced by system and BGS

But still governed by an RNG algorithm.

Your post is a bit confusing, to be honest.

Note: I do see your point about Mission USS'. To be fair, I didn't mention them anywhere.

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But my comment does. Don't see what's wrong with that.

Your comment took a jab at my OP making suggestions:

... your thread does a poor job in suggesting them.

I never made any.
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[JuicerPrime]

They're going to need to get a much bigger Bandwagon to fit all of these impatient crybabies, like the OP, on it. "What do we want? Super ships. When do we want it? Exactly right now!". Get the chant going, Get your signs out. I haven't seen a good protest line in a while. "If Robigo can't fix it, we don't want it!". That would make a great sign.

The crybaby/infantile/entitlement memes have nested in these forums and are breeding. Unlike other forum pests, they exude a toxic substance that poisons free debate and stains interaction for extended periods after removal. If left unchecked they can consume and eradicate a mid-sized gaming community in less than six months!

If you find youself witnessing or attempting to propagate this invasive species, you may have become infected. Do not panic! First ask yourself the following:-

1. Is the meme applicable to the current thread?
2. Do you feel the urge to use the meme as a positive reinforcer and not a cheap shot or attempt to undermine?
3. Are you absolutely 100% sure that the other guy is deserving of being labelled by the meme and not because you think they're a poopy-head?

If you answered "no" to any of the questions, it's possible that you've been infected. Seek treatment immediately. Refrain from using the meme or any of the following for a period of no less than one (1) week:-

- Strawman analogies of any sort!
- Unfounded projections of intent!
- Questioning of maturity or intelligence!
- Passive aggression!
- Siege mentality!
- Dog whistles!
- Hyperbole!

This invasive species can be stopped. With awareness and mutual respect it can be beaten. Join the fight against toxicity today - a better forum future is possible! The fight starts with YOU!

Would You Like To Know More?

 

[frostypaw]

So wait a moment - the OP and others complaining are welcome to set up farcical strawman arguments based on ad hominem assumptions about the intent and character of Frontier and their developers, proclaiming the sky is falling and only combat builds are viable while they're under siege from some imaginary PvP focused majority who want the game only playable by elite player - but if we point that out then we're the bad guys?

*nods sagely*

cunning.

edit> oh pants, didn't mention grind. I'm a forum failure

 

[Mohrgan]

The crybaby/infantile/entitlement memes have nested in these forums and are breeding. Unlike other forum pests, they exude a toxic substance that poisons free debate and stains interaction for extended periods after removal. If left unchecked they can consume and eradicate a mid-zied gaming community in less than six months!
<Snipped for sanity>


Would you like to know more?

Good, good. Now all you need is a shot of someone burning FD in effigy.

 

[Enderby]

So wait a moment - the OP and others complaining are welcome to set up farcical strawman arguments based on ad hominem assumptions about the intent and character of Frontier and their developers, proclaiming the sky is falling and only combat builds are viable while they're under siege from some imaginary PvP focused majority who want the game only playable by elite player - but if we point that out then we're the bad guys?

*nods sagely*

cunning.

edit> oh pants, didn't mention grind. I'm a forum failure

Wow, strawman, ad hominem and sky falling all in one post.

 

[JuicerPrime]

So wait a moment - the OP and others complaining are welcome to set up farcical strawman arguments based on ad hominem assumptions about the intent and character of Frontier and their developers, proclaiming the sky is falling and only combat builds are viable while they're under siege from some imaginary PvP focused majority who want the game only playable by elite player - but if we point that out then we're the bad guys?

*nods sagely*

cunning.

edit> oh pants, didn't mention grind. I'm a forum failure

Good, good. Now all you need is a shot of someone burning FD in effigy.

That's projection and siege mentality, troopers. You know what to do!

Remember, you can disagree without being toxic. Just say "no" to the spread of toxicity, and we will all benefit. Make the happiness of the forums your personal responsibility!

(Okay, so I am on a total Starship Troopers bender today. I blame Helldivers )

 

[Lobstris]

Don't polls like this usually have a third 'comic' option such as "I like Tea" or "Fuzzy Penguin" - y'know, the option I can actually vote for with clear conscience?

 

[Kurdran]

So wait a moment - the OP and others complaining are welcome to set up farcical strawman arguments based on ad hominem assumptions about the intent and character of Frontier and their developers, proclaiming the sky is falling and only combat builds are viable while they're under siege from some imaginary PvP focused majority who want the game only playable by elite player - but if we point that out then we're the bad guys?

Do please elaborate on a few bits:

1) OP and farcical straw man arguments

A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not advanced by that opponent.^{[URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man#cite_note-Stephen_Downes-1"][1][/URL]}

Uhm... I'm the OP, where exactly did I mention I was refuting an opponent's post?

2) OP and ad hominem assumptions about the intent and character of Frontier and their developers

Ad hominem (Latin for "to the man" or "to the person"^{[URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem#cite_note-1"][1][/URL]}), short for argumentum ad hominem, is a logical fallacy in which an argument is rebutted by attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument, or persons associated with the argument, rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself.^{[URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem#cite_note-2"][2][/URL]}

Where exactly did I mention any character attacks against Frontier and/or their developers?

3) OP proclaiming the sky is falling and only combat builds are viable

My OP didn't mention a thing about combat, or combat builds.

4) OP and some imaginary PvP focused majority who want the game only playable by elite players

My OP didn't mention anything about PvP or the intentions of PvP players.

edit> oh pants, didn't mention grind. I'm a forum failure

You're not a failure. But your post did make me wonder if you were a troll... Anyway, I hope you can clarify some of the things you mentioned.

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Don't polls like this usually have a third 'comic' option such as "I like Tea" or "Fuzzy Penguin" - y'know, the option I can actually vote for with clear conscience?

Sorry

 

[Mohrgan]

That's projection and siege mentality, troopers. You know what to do!

Remember, you can disagree without being toxic. Just say "no" to the spread of toxicity, and we will all benefit. Make the happiness of the forums your personal responsibility!

(Okay, so I am on a total Starship Troopers bender today. I blame Helldivers )

Labels, darn it all, I forgot labels. Good job in picking that up. Can I be a fascist for the purposes of this discussion? Because that one is right at the top of good labels.

 

[frostypaw]

That's projection and siege mentality, troopers. You know what to do!

Remember, you can disagree without being toxic. Just say "no" to the spread of toxicity, and we will all benefit. Make the happiness of the forums your personal responsibility!

(Okay, so I am on a total Starship Troopers bender today. I blame Helldivers )

Most responses have not been toxic - people have been bending over backwards to help people left right and centre.

The advice is thrown aggressively back in your face with comments like your earlier post (in summary at least) tagged on. I really don't think the fault in the arguments is being laid at the right door

It's been what weeks now of people being told all the different ways they can get basic mats and people are still quitting over "being railroaded into the only one way of getting things" and flouncing off claiming ultra-NPCs ate their baby when they got disarmed within days of launch?

You'll forgive me if I consider people continuing to not just bang but HAMMER the drum in dimmer light.

 

[JuicerPrime]

Labels, darn it all, I forgot labels. Good job in picking that up. Can I be a fascist for the purposes of this discussion? Because that one is right at the top of good labels.

I wouldn't call fascism a good label. Then again, Starship Troopers...damn it. I'm going to have to run this one past Heinlein. Oh wait, he's dead. Anyone got a Ouija board?? [where is it]

Most responses have not been toxic - people have been bending over backwards to help people left right and centre.

The advice is thrown aggressively back in your face with comments like your earlier post (in summary at least) tagged on. I really don't think the fault in the arguments is being laid at the right door

It's been what weeks now of people being told all the different ways they can get basic mats and people are still quitting over "being railroaded into the only one way of getting things" and flouncing off claiming ultra-NPCs ate their baby when they got disarmed within days of launch?

You'll forgive me if I consider people continuing to not just bang but HAMMER the drum in dimmer light.

The memes can infect us all. Disagreement and debate are fine, but the attacks are where the toxicity nests. Lines have already been drawn between the opposing forces of the pro and anti-Frontier camps, but I'm doing my best to swear off it from now on. Every forumite is a federal citizen fellow player. Will you join me?

 

[frostypaw]

Do please elaborate on a few bits:

I used the words "and others complaining".

This means it might not only address points made in your post, but will include reference to it at least.

ps. for more detail: strawman was that the game isn't structured well as others argue but is a total rng randomfest of pointlessness, the adhominem bit was accusing FDev of trying to lure more suckers in as if they were conmen behind dishonest about what the game is.

 

[Kurdran]

I used the words "and others complaining".

This means it might not only address points made in your post, but will include reference to it at least.

So, basically, you're hijacking my thread to vent your anger at all the complaints others have been posting about? Brilliant.

 

[frostypaw]

So, basically, you're hijacking my thread to vent your anger at all the complaints others have been posting about? Brilliant.

Nope. Just wishing you'd tagged your cut'n'paste complaint onto one of the other identical threads with the same points in different words.

Of which there are 86 from a quick search.

 

[Enderby]

Nope. Just wishing you'd tagged your cut'n'paste complaint onto one of the other identical threads with the same points in different words.

Of which there are 86 from a quick search.

Says cliché man

 

[bitstorm]

Oh look another whinging RNG thread for everyone to argue the toss in!

What is it, 5 hours since the last one?