Newcomer / Intro Okay developers, this is absolutely ridiculous

[Manticore]

This:

First, I do not want to be a "combat pilot", that was never what Elite was about to me, exploration and trading were always the most appealing things in the game to me.

That was what the original Elite's were about and that is what I got into this EDH for.

And to other replies in this thread:

I have been slammed a number of times now trying to leave station space and, as has been enumerated countless times now on these forums, there is no defense against these NPC attacks even for players with many hours and some skills.

1000+ hours in and I have ships that have top shelf upgrades (Class 3 and 4) for shields and spaceframes etc. but you can't defend or even evade an attack when your shields go down in one hit and the second hit begins the destruction of the spaceframe of your craft.

 

[happyfunball]

I remember when I used to do a lot of missions, one thing that struck me is that if I try to fly between stations in a system, as soon as I enter supercruise I can almost guarantee I'll get interdicted if I'm carrying missions. This is opposed to the interdiction frequency of high waking from system to system, which felt a lot less. I would fly from system to system without interdictions, then as soon as I need to enter supercruise after I exit a station instead of right into hyperspace, I'd get interdicted.

I haven't tested that after the recent patch, but that's the kind of feedback I'm hoping to get from people experiencing high amount of interdictions. Right now my trading activity is very simple: plot route, exit station, charge fsd, system jump, cool down, system jump, fly to station, dock. As I mentioned, doing that is getting me maybe one interdiction per 10 jumps or so. All the stations I visit are less than 500ls from the star. Are people flying to far away stations? Are they mining? Are they low waking (entering supercruise) within the system frequently? I would definitely be interesting if we can nail down a reason or two why interdiction frequencies seem to be so wildly different.

 

[Alaska Wolf]

T
Blue balls could be Plasma Accelerator (EDIT: but as just pointed out by happyfunball they should be purple) which with a single shot can do a lot of damage to your shields.
An old post with some stats comparing each weapon against shield damage: All Weapon Stats in Actual Values Test Results (Stage 1 – Shield DPS)

Truthfully they can be whatever color they want, I noticed them out my window as they just missed ripping me apart yet again, I was kind of in a hurry to get the heck out of there. Whatever they are, I don't like them, and neither do Cobras. They have to have some incredible speed and range to have hit me from so far away though.

 

[CMDR Mr. Boombastic]

I have been slammed a number of times now trying to leave station space and, as has been enumerated countless times now on these forums, there is no defense against these NPC attacks even for players with many hours and some skills.

The thing I have learnt only in the last weeks is that when you are being attacked 4 pips to SYS will give your shield 2.5 times the strength.
When an NPC has a railgun or plasma it can strip a shield in seconds with several direct hits. 4 pips to SYS can be a lifesaver if you are just trying to run.

When escaping I used to have 4 pips to ENG and 2 pips to SYS, but general consensus (even though it sounds counterintuitive) is to have 4 pips to SYS and 2 to ENG. There's over an hour discussing this and other techniques at http://laveradio.com/lave-radio-episode-112/ with CMDR M.A.R.S.H.A.L.L. starting @39:45

The CMDRs on here who have been presenting the Lave Radio podcast since 2013 learnt a lot from CMDR M.A.R.S.H.A.L.L. especially the host.

 

[happyfunball]

PA can be devastating if it hits. To balance that, they only come in fixed mounts, so the ship has to be aiming right at you and you have to be flying in a way that's predictable. In the case of fixed weapons, chaff won't help. However, in a maneuverable ship like the Cobra, you can bob and weave, as well as use your lateral and vertical thrusters to dodge the fixed weapons. My usual practice, even in slow ships, is to chaff (for gimbals and turrets), then wiggle while I'm boosting to escape. I never fly straight, especially with the new AI. They seem to aim really well, so why make it easy on them?

 

[CMDR Mr. Boombastic]

Truthfully they can be whatever color they want, I noticed them out my window as they just missed ripping me apart yet again, I was kind of in a hurry to get the heck out of there. Whatever they are, I don't like them, and neither do Cobras. They have to have some incredible speed and range to have hit me from so far away though.

There are green weapons that fire rapidly but those could be your Point Defence Turret. I initially confused them for enemy weapons as I believe they changed the ammunition to green in the last upgrade(?)

 

[Chris Simon]

There are green weapons that fire rapidly but those could be your Point Defence Turret. I initially confused them for enemy weapons as (I think) they only turned green in the last upgrade.

They were always green-ish. only now they actually fire slower, so they are even more easily mistaken for enemy laser fire.

 

[happyfunball]

Tangent: I finally fitted my trade ship with some Point Defense after the 1.6/2.1, given the reports of stronger missiles. However, I have yet to to fire them at anything. Seems like the NPCs that interdict me only want to shoot me with lasers.

I really need to go get some class 2 Mine Launchers installed though. They look like fun.

 

[Alaska Wolf]

I remember when I used to do a lot of missions, one thing that struck me is that if I try to fly between stations in a system, as soon as I enter supercruise I can almost guarantee I'll get interdicted if I'm carrying missions. This is opposed to the interdiction frequency of high waking from system to system, which felt a lot less. I would fly from system to system without interdictions, then as soon as I need to enter supercruise after I exit a station instead of right into hyperspace, I'd get interdicted.

I haven't tested that after the recent patch, but that's the kind of feedback I'm hoping to get from people experiencing high amount of interdictions. Right now my trading activity is very simple: plot route, exit station, charge fsd, system jump, cool down, system jump, fly to station, dock. As I mentioned, doing that is getting me maybe one interdiction per 10 jumps or so. All the stations I visit are less than 500ls from the star. Are people flying to far away stations? Are they mining? Are they low waking (entering supercruise) within the system frequently? I would definitely be interesting if we can nail down a reason or two why interdiction frequencies seem to be so wildly different.

Well, I can tell you that I do some long inter-system supercruising. Some of the data deliveries are to secondary star systems 250,000LS from the primary. I'm exploring new "to me" systems a lot, so there is a lot of continuous low waking there; plus if I'm exploring signals (and finding ships with super weapons) then there is a lot of dropping in and out of supercruise. I've gotten interdicted by the FSS a few times, but I usually break interdiction. Mostly though it seems to be pirates wanting my cargo, even though I have none. A few missions I have gotten a warning about someone was going to try to stop the delivery, and it may well have been during one of those I got interdicted 4 times on the way into the station, but I'm not 100% on that. I have even been interdicted on deep space explorations during fuel collection, which I thought was odd because if heat-based sensors are being used, how would they even see me in the corona of a star? I don't do any mining, so that's a non-counter for me.

For newer players trading isn't terribly feasible until they can get enough credits together to buy a bigger ship. Sideys are probably one of the worst trading ships out there, so missions tend to be the best initial source of income for new players. Perhaps doing missions triggers an increased interdiction rate? If that's the case, then it would follow that newer players, that can't really afford to be interdicted by the ninja assassin NPCs, would be experiencing a marked increase in interdictions over players that weren't doing missions as a means of generating income.

 

[Chris Simon]

Tangent: I finally fitted my trade ship with some Point Defense after the 1.6/2.1, given the reports of stronger missiles. However, I have yet to to fire them at anything. Seems like the NPCs that interdict me only want to shoot me with lasers.

I really need to go get some class 2 Mine Launchers installed though. They look like fun.

Yes, I noticed this, too. The baddies you usually meet only employ lases, cannons, etc.
Though CZs and RES are usually filled with missiles.

 

[Alaska Wolf]

PA can be devastating if it hits. To balance that, they only come in fixed mounts, so the ship has to be aiming right at you and you have to be flying in a way that's predictable. In the case of fixed weapons, chaff won't help. However, in a maneuverable ship like the Cobra, you can bob and weave, as well as use your lateral and vertical thrusters to dodge the fixed weapons. My usual practice, even in slow ships, is to chaff (for gimbals and turrets), then wiggle while I'm boosting to escape. I never fly straight, especially with the new AI. They seem to aim really well, so why make it easy on them?

Yes you can, once you figure out that the super ninja assassin NPCs have stopped by. I'm still in awe of being taken out from the outside scanner ring, in the middle of a debris field, before I even realized they were there. That's awful fancy shootin'.

 

[Mr T]

• The tip from MAIN SEQUENCE about avoiding shipping lanes is a good one as NPCs tend to hang around these lanes, so I read travelling in a curved route is better

Avoiding shipping lanes is a very useful tip, particularly if your star port is a long way from the main star. The funny thing is, you don't have to divert your course very far away from the shipping lane .. just enough so it says "deep space" when you align instead of "shipping lane". Logically, you would think NPCs would still see you and come after you but they don't (they're programmed NPCs, after all). I tried this multiple (10 or so) times last night going to a station that is 2000+ ls away and I didn't get interdicted once. Previously, when I didn't know about these shipping lanes I would have been interdicted many times (at least once). I did get interdicted in other systems but that's a different story.

 

[happyfunball]

Perhaps doing missions triggers an increased interdiction rate?

Oh yes, this is absolutely true. More missions = more interdictions. Stacking multiple missions can mean NPCs lining up to interdict you.

These are commonly believed to increase interdiction rates:

• Missions - Definitely. Some missions will even spawn mission specific NPCs that'll follow you.
• Pledged to a Power - Definitely. Powerplay specific NPCs will interdict you.
• Carrying cargo - Maybe. I trade a lot but I don't notice any significant jump in interdictions. However, if you carry cargo into RES or Nav Beacon areas, pirates can scan you and attack you if you have cargo.
• Being Wanted - Maybe. I personally haven't spent a lot of time in Wanted state to say for sure. However, like cargo, if you're in RES or Nav, you can get scanned and shot at.
• Extended stay in supercruise - Maybe. Personally, I think the system does a RNG "roll" to check if interdiction should happen every so often, so the longer you're in supercruise, the more chances you have of getting an unlucky roll.
• Shipping lanes - Maybe. Personally I just fly straight at my target station, and I still have a fairly low interdiction rate. However, if your target station is thousands of ls away, it may not be a bad idea to fly in a parabola.

So if you're doing at least one of these, then you're likely to increase the rate of interdiction. What I'm curious about are the people who say they're not doing any of these (no mission, no cargo, not wanted, etc.), yet they are still seeing high level of interdictions.

With regards to making credits as a new player, yes missions kinda suck because of the increased interdiction. Here are a few other options:

• If you're interested in combat, to to a Navigation (Nav) Beacon or a Low Resource Extraction Site (RES). While there, follow the security forces around. When they start shooting at a wanted ship, shoot at the same ship once that ship is close to dying. Don't shoot too early as you might get aggro. Leeching off security is a common method to earn credits, even in a stock Sidewinder. Just make sure you return to station frequently to cash in the bounties.
• Exploration can earn you slow but steady income, no mission required.
• Trading is slow but doable, even in a Sidewinder. I bulk traded my way from a Sidewinder all the way up to a T6. Once you get a ship with reasonable range, even as lowly as the Adder or the Hauler, you can start running rare trades too. Rare trade is great for not-quite-as-new players in the low-mid range of ships.
• Community Goals are a great way to earn some credits every week. Check out the first post of the Active Community Thread to see what's currently running. Right now a smuggling CG is running in Herthe system. Just delivering one ton of illegal rare goods will earn you 600,000 CR minimum on Thursday, or if the CG ends early if the goal is reached. If it reaches higher tiers, or if you deliver more than one, you can earn more than 600k.

 

[Alaska Wolf]

Thanks for the advice Happy, the parabola route I can attest to, I discovered that if I slip just outside the shipping lanes interdictions go down. And they very definitely jump back up as soon as I hit civilized space again. I'm guessing you're right about the missions, since I'm not doing cargo, factions, criminal activities, ect. it's the only reason that makes sense. I'll give the Nav points and RES a try, and see if interdictions drop off, at least until I can get a real exploration class ship. Hadn't heard about the Community Goals before so I'll give them a shot, this iteration has gotten just a tad bit more complex than my old Elite. Elite: Original is still one of my picks for the ten best games ever, wire frame graphics and all.

 

[Manticore]

The thing I have learnt only in the last weeks is that when you are being attacked 4 pips to SYS will give your shield 2.5 times the strength.
When an NPC has a railgun or plasma it can strip a shield in seconds with several direct hits. 4 pips to SYS can be a lifesaver if you are just trying to run.

When escaping I used to have 4 pips to ENG and 2 pips to SYS, but general consensus (even though it sounds counterintuitive) is to have 4 pips to SYS and 2 to ENG. There's over an hour discussing this and other techniques at http://laveradio.com/lave-radio-episode-112/ with CMDR M.A.R.S.H.A.L.L. starting @39:45

The CMDRs on here who have been presenting the Lave Radio podcast since 2013 learnt a lot from CMDR M.A.R.S.H.A.L.L. especially the host.

Thanks for the links. I've been pipping shields a lot more in recent days... that's for sure.

 

[BigBANGtheory [VR]]

The key from my limited experience is get the 4 pips into your shields before the shooting starts, I had mistakenly assumed that the pips>shield was all about the recharge and regenerate rate but neglected the more important point that it makes the shields you have stronger. Knowing this can save your life...

 

[CMDR Mr. Boombastic]

The key from my limited experience is get the 4 pips into your shields before the shooting starts, I had mistakenly assumed that the pips>shield was all about the recharge and regenerate rate but neglected the more important point that it makes the shields you have stronger. Knowing this can save your life...

These 2 studies from 2015 perfectly highlight that point:
SYS pips vs. Shield Lasting Time
Weapons Damage against Shields

But REP should go to Chris Simon on finding the first study which led me onto finding the second (already posted the 2nd link earlier but renamed the text). And REP should go to the CMDRs who conducted the study in the first place.

 

[Maxmilian Czhilli]

I restarted recently and I did notice an increase in the number of interdictions compared to my first time starting out.

One thing I haven't seen mentioned in this thread is the difference that system security status has on risk. This is poorly explained, especially for newcomers. The higher the security rating the fewer hostile AI you are likely to encounter (all other factors being equal: mission, local reputation, ranking etc.) and the more aggressive the system security response. Anarchy systems are a free for all and the most dangerous systems of all. I noticed there were a quite a few anarchy and low security systems around the Horizons starter system of Asellus Primus that can make life extra difficult for new pilots.

System security status is poorly communicated to the player. You can find it on the far left panel of the system map. Of course the system map often isn't available in advance. You can often buy a system map in advance if it is in the local area. Starting out again I found myself doing this for the first time just so that I could manage my risk better.

To the OP. Yes it's a tough start. There is lots of stuff to learn that is poorly explained in game. It used to be the case that the start was less hostile but making credits and progressing ships and upgrades much slower unless you followed min/maxer guides. The balance swung the other way with the recent 2.1 update. I think the new balance is good for the game and will breed a much more competent generation of new pilots. Keep in there, keep asking questions in this forum. It's a great game.

 

[Carthbet]

Same here buddy. If you need extra help to get you going let me know. Im not a veteran and I'm surely not an ELITE pilot but I manage.

Can Help you out to get some creds for better ship and equipment.

 

[SirGirard]

The AI is kinda ruthless now. I am curious about the station attacks though, are you pledged to a power or have a bounty on you? These are the only reasons I know of that will encourage NPC's to shoot at you whilst coming out of a station. My suggestion to you would be to fly the fastest ship you can afford and boost the hell away, whilst making a few barrel rolls. Target the closest system and high wake out of there to avoid the mass-lock effect. Other than that, I must admit this new ai is kinda brutal at times, especially if you are pledged/have a bounty on you. Keep trying CMDR!!

Yes I have found that pirate NPC'S chase me to the station and do open fire even in the exclusion zone? I just fly close to the station and the police/station guns do their job! (Usually when I am doing a mission and evaded an interdiction from the same NPC.

Also have a lot of sympathy with the OP. I think the new NPC are a lot tougher and more fun....when I am in my "A rated" FDL or FAS fitted with the right weapon set up! However, as an exercise, I have tried to bounty hunt and trade in a low spec ship (E or D rated Cobra or Vulture and FDL) and didn't stand a hope of lasting more than 10 seconds when I started a fight or was interdicted. I Have no idea how new players can get to learn the basics or make any money. Certainly not fun. I also don't understand why Elite/Deadly/Dangerous pirates are not restricted to Anarchy or low security systems to help?