Why no 3rd person?

[Jex =TE=]

1/ wrong, there is, just use a track-IR and a triple screen and you'll understand

2/ I don't care about this ship, it's in front of me, not that far away, I know where it's facing, it's the one behind that's important.

3/ nop, see above but it's easier live than on a picture as you have the previous movement to help you.

4/ again, try a track-IR.

I have trackir and no, it's not going to help you one iota and it's not going to give you 360 degrees of view either - you can only look one direction once. I don't have a triple screen though so I see you're going to use that to squirm your way out of a rebuttal which you haven't provided - just assertions.

As for your triple screen, you can only focus on one. There's no way you're going to see which way a 3 pixel ship is facing unless your focus on it and that's a fact. You also neglected the other huge point that nukes your argument harder than Stalin, you can't fly, fight or use ur hud in 3rd person so good luck at the re-buy screen

Aaaaand another bad argument that tries to ruin the fun of other people taken care of.

 

[babelfisch]

So now you're misrepresenting the argument are you?

Who's talking about combat here?

Well ick was talking about combat, since you were arguing with him I assumed that you are talking about combat as well.

PS If you are not talking about combat than you are disagreeing with yourself, because you didn't want to agree with me

 

[Gedemon]

I have trackir and no, it's not going to help you one iota and it's not going to give you 360 degrees of view either - you can only look one direction once. I don't have a triple screen though so I see you're going to use that to squirm your way out of a rebuttal which you haven't provided - just assertions.

As for your triple screen, you can only focus on one. There's no way you're going to see which way a 3 pixel ship is facing unless your focus on it and that's a fact. You also neglected the other huge point that nukes your argument harder than Stalin, you can't fly, fight or use ur hud in 3rd person so good luck at the re-buy screen

Aaaaand another bad argument that tries to ruin the fun of other people taken care of.

hmmm, so what kind of third person view are you talking about ?

not the one of OP ("playable 3rd person perspective") it seems.

if you're talking about a better outside camera mode, I think that almost every one want it.

 

[Jex =TE=]

Name me one game that has more than one camera view and I name you ten that don't.


You didn't understand my point. What I tried to say is that arguments about sim, advantages and realism are pretty useless because they are not the reason FDEV didn't include 3rd person combat. What I did though was suggesting to improve the 3rd person camera.

PS I also tried to say that this issue should be relevant to both sides of the argument.

Off the top of my head

Falcon 4.0
Planetside 2
Planetside 1
GTA 3,
vice city,
san andreas,
tales of vice,
4
and 5
MS Flight
Operation Flash point
Armed assault
2
and 3
Practically Every driving game ever made
Practically every flight sim ever made

That's 14 so far without including the driving and flight simes - so you need to list 140 games that could benefit from having a 3rd person view - if ur going to come back with games like candy crush just forget it.

 

[lysan]

No, if it gives an advantage in PvP then you can also kill NPC faster and with this proposal solo would give an advantage to players wanting to influence the BGS.

The BSG will not be influenced by this, its only an issue when you encounter other players.
SOLO players already have that advantage so it doesn't really matter if they can do it in SOLO and not in OPEN.

 

[Jex =TE=]

hmmm, so what kind of third person view are you talking about ?

not the one of OP ("playable 3rd person perspective") it seems.

if you're talking about a better outside camera mode, I think that almost every one want it.

Well I already argued that even a playable 3rd person view would be no match for my cockpit view with my scanner. Do we really need to use the following poll

Would you rather fly in first person WITH your scanner or in 3rd person WITHOUT it - YES/NO

I think most people would pick the former by far and I'd take on anyone that claims 3rd person is better in a one v one.

Even being able to fly and not shoot would be ok too, as you might want to get some video.

All in all, I'm not worried about what other people get up to unless they're using something that gives them an advantage and that gives me another idea of how to look at this.

Imagine ED was 3rd person only and no scanner and then they introduced 1st person with the scanner - do you think there wouldn't be a massive uproar over "First person cheaters" using "the scanner" to "cheat kill with"? LOL

 

[babelfisch]

Off the top of my head

Falcon 4.0
Planetside 2
Planetside 1
GTA 3,
vice city,
san andreas,
tales of vice,
4
and 5
MS Flight
Operation Flash point
Armed assault
2
and 3
Practically Every driving game ever made
Practically every flight sim ever made

That's 14 so far without including the driving and flight simes - so you need to list 140 games that could benefit from having a 3rd person view - if ur going to come back with games like candy crush just forget it.

It will take some time, so I'll just edit the post later. BTW, not benefiting from 3rd person view, having more than one views was the argument.

PS
GTA 3,
vice city,
san andreas

Don't have first person. What is Tales of Vice, don't find anything about it.

GTA
GTA 2
GTA 3
GTA Vice City
GTA San Andreas
Half Life
Half Life Oppossing Force
Half Life Blue Shift
Half Life 2
Half Life 2 Episode 1
Half Life 2 Episode 2
Unreal
Unreal Tournament
Unreal Tournament 2003
Gothic 1
Gothic 2
Gothic 3

I'll continue later, need to make dinner

 

[Gedemon]

The BSG will not be influenced by this, its only an issue when you encounter other players.
SOLO players already have that advantage so it doesn't really matter if they can do it in SOLO and not in OPEN.

nop, I mean that if a view give you an advantage in combat, it will give it to you whoever you're fighting: players or NPC.

if you can use that advantage only in SOLO, then you can kill NPC faster in SOLO than in OPEN, which means influencing the BGS faster in SOLO than in OPEN.

 

[babelfisch]

Even being able to fly and not shoot would be ok too, as you might want to get some video.

So what are we arguing about?!

 

[Jex =TE=]

I do, however, see room for the "it doesn't belong in Elite" argument. There are a number of common, and oft' requested changes to Elites game play model I feel would just cheapen and destroy what I see as the Elite experience. Opinion, I know, but all of this is.

Even though the last 2 games had 3rd person view and the first one that wasn't even an option so history disagrees with you and why is this the hundredth time this point has been made and people still ignore it?

There's an easy fix for not cheapening the experience, don't use it.

 

[lysan]

It will take some time, so I'll just edit the post later. BTW, not benefiting from 3rd person view, having more than one views was the argument.

In all those games the 3rd person view are disabled on the veteran and hardcore servers for a reason. Because 3rdpv give you an advantage.

nop, I mean that if a view give you an advantage in combat, it will give it to you whoever you're fighting: players or NPC.

if you can use that advantage only in SOLO, then you can kill NPC faster in SOLO than in OPEN, which means influencing the BGS faster in SOLO than in OPEN.

Not really, the TTK will not be high enough to make a difference, it will however make a difference in a 101 combat situation.

 

[Gedemon]

Well I already argued that even a playable 3rd person view would be no match for my cockpit view with my scanner. Do we really need to use the following poll

Would you rather fly in first person WITH your scanner or in 3rd person WITHOUT it - YES/NO

I think most people would pick the former by far and I'd take on anyone that claims 3rd person is better in a one v one.

Even being able to fly and not shoot would be ok too, as you might want to get some video.

All in all, I'm not worried about what other people get up to unless they're using something that gives them an advantage and that gives me another idea of how to look at this.

Imagine ED was 3rd person only and no scanner and then they introduced 1st person with the scanner - do you think there wouldn't be a massive uproar over "First person cheaters" using "the scanner" to "cheat kill with"? LOL

So we agree, any form of 3rd person view need to have limitations.

But removing the scanner would not be enough, against one enemy, I'd chose the 3rd person without it over the cockpit with it.

 

[Jex =TE=]

It will take some time, so I'll just edit the post later. BTW, not benefiting from 3rd person view, having more than one views was the argument.

PS
GTA 3,
vice city,
san andreas

Don't have first person. What is Tales of Vice, don't find anything about it.



I'll continue later, need to make dinner

How on earth was it only a few posts up you wrote this

Name me one game that has more than one camera view and I name you ten that don't.

and already forgot that you wrote it? Did u always play GTA in the one camera mode? You do know it had 3 or 4 right?

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

So we agree, any form of 3rd person view need to have limitations.

But removing the scanner would not be enough, against one enemy, I'd chose the 3rd person without it over the cockpit with it.

You must use gimballed weapons then. Good luck hitting anything without a cross hair

Additional - I think the advantages are in your head tbh. I don't think they actually exists in ED and offer no benefit. The scanner shows exactly where they are and if ur even a bad pilot you know what direction the ships likely to be facing from the vector it left your POV from. Also, you're forgetting the ship in ur hud that shows which way it's pointing. You don't need third person for that.

 

[Mohrgan]

Even though the last 2 games had 3rd person view and the first one that wasn't even an option so history disagrees with you and why is this the hundredth time this point has been made and people still ignore it?

There's an easy fix for not cheapening the experience, don't use it.

I made no claims about previous iterations, just what we have now, E|D. I guess I wasn't completely clear enough.

How about the whole rest of the points I made? You can't believe bringing up one historical fact can dismiss the entirety of my post.

 

[markuslig]

Well i already posted a suggestion, (somewhat unclear one, but i think it can be understood) That should solve all this i think. But everyone seems mostly busy fighting here, lol

Ill give it a go again... and try to clear it up
Record 3D scenes around the ship, during a time
Maybe then you log out to main menu or so (just an example) where you can access your captured scenes.
Maybe you were in some cool fights. insert some cameras in the 3D scene and record from different angles. Stills or video
Maybe a nice shot where an FDL´s beams cut your hull open as it flies by or whatever.
I don't think anything like it has been done before which is also good
There might be a lot of work going into something like this, but it might also not be too much. Seams to me it is all there already, but i would save that for someone who actually knows what he/she is talking about (hint hint)

Think like the 2009? movie star trek (don't remember the name) when Kirk explores the area of the crime scene in 3d after the bomb went off.
All this is after all the gameplay finished and so it doesn't effect the game in any way. Just that we get a good chanse to get some really cool shoots

 

[Gedemon]

You must use gimballed weapons then. Good luck hitting anything without a cross hair

Additional - I think the advantages are in your head tbh. I don't think they actually exists in ED and offer no benefit. The scanner shows exactly where they are and if ur even a bad pilot you know what direction the ships likely to be facing from the vector it left your POV from. Also, you're forgetting the ship in ur hud that shows which way it's pointing. You don't need third person for that.

Since when the cross hair is part of the scanner ?

If you're saying without HUD, yeah, again, I agree, 3rd person view need limitations.

What's your point, really ?

you're just trolling us or you have one ?

 

[Jex =TE=]

In all those games the 3rd person view are disabled on the veteran and hardcore servers for a reason. Because 3rdpv give you an advantage.



Not really, the TTK will not be high enough to make a difference, it will however make a difference in a 101 combat situation.

Why are you STILL arguing about FIRST PERSON SHOOTERS in a SPACE FLIGHT SIM? LOL

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

I made no claims about previous iterations, just what we have now, E|D. I guess I wasn't completely clear enough.

How about the whole rest of the points I made? You can't believe bringing up one historical fact can dismiss the entirety of my post.

I only have time for this

Using the 1stP perspective creates much of the challenge involved with mundane flight, not to mention combat. I argue that being able to switch to 3rdP would cheapen and homogenize the entire E|D experience.

One, why are you arguing your opinion as though it's fact. two - who experience are we talking about here? If you don't like it, don't use it, problem solved. If you think you're going to speak for the entire player base, get lost lol

1st person create ZERO challenge in ED - the game is so easy you can play with your eyes closed (unfortunately) and somehow they made landing even easier!

The point about the previous iterations is because you said it doesn't fit with ED or the design - but it does as history proves.

 

[Jex =TE=]

Since when the cross hair is part of the scanner ?

If you're saying without HUD, yeah, again, I agree, 3rd person view need limitations.

What's your point, really ?

you're just trolling us or you have one ?

Now ur trolling mate. My point is crystal clear these last 3 pages. When did I say the cross hair is part of the scanner - why are you assuming third person will come with a hud, it's 3rd person, it's external to the ship. If I said "we should have 3rd person and have the scanner and the hud and make it easier to fight in 3rd person" then maybe you'd have something but I'm not saying that - maybe I wasn't clear to begin with if so, apologies.

You still need to argue why you think 3rd person is easier when we have a scanner and a ship picture.

 

[Mohrgan]

1st person create ZERO challenge in ED - the game is so easy you can play with your eyes closed (unfortunately) and somehow they made landing even easier!

I'm going to leave you and your dismissive nature to yourself. In the end you don;t need to convince me, or the others posting in this thread, you have to convince FD, and they aren't commenting. Besides chuckling at the image of a pilot flying by tether.

 

[babelfisch]

How on earth was it only a few posts up you wrote this



and already forgot that you wrote it? Did u always play GTA in the one camera mode? You do know it had 3 or 4 right?

But you can't play GTA with those camera modes, how would you aim, how would you drive your car? They are just cinematic views! The argument isn't about different cameras but about adding a 3rd person mode that allows you to play the whole game in 3rd person, making first person redundant.

PS As long as I am not sure that we are talking about the same things I am going to stop wasting my time creating the list above (even though I have a few thousand games in mind...).