2.3 The Commanders

[Viajero]

*Mod hat off

I'm really curious how this isn't going to completely screw me as someone who wants to play on my own. Has FDev offered any explanation?

The main relevant comment I recall is that in principle FDEV was planning to balance a multi-crew ship with individual ships, both for a given number of commanders in both cases.

I.e. a single ship with 2 commanders should be more efficient that the same ship with just 1 commander. All the while maintaining the wing cap to 4 players (not ships).

The obvious trade off (in that example) is that you would have to face only 1 ship instead of 2. I.e. multi-crew trades higher ship efficiency in exchange of actual ships in a wing.

It is going to be a delicate balance exercise no doubt. And it is going to take time to get it right, i.e. beyond any eventual beta, I am sure.

 

[Cynaqq]

No, I refuse to think it. No way would player crew members just become buffs, just no. Please no.
How will another player make a difference, we already fly on our own.
It has to be more depth to the ship systems, hopefully.

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Simply stated, what mechanics will change?
What is different from one player in a ship to thee players in a ship.
Any ideas welcomed.

Manned turrets, shield directions on top of pip management, individual thruster power control to enhance maneuverability (needs advanced coordination with the pilot), shield mode switching such as thermal or kinetic shields at any given time, advanced maintenance of individual modules, maybe even powerplant probably without taking it offline, crew comanders can opt to launch and pilot fighters, leaving their posts so ship becomes single commander but you have interceptors now...

I can go on, should I?

 

[cluelessforumuser65578]

from what i understand a fully crewed ship will be much more effective simply because one man in his ship wont be allowed to do more than one thing at a time. want to remain in control of your ship while controlling the turrets? tough. i really hope fd dont go down the road of making flying and fighting in a big ship a chore just to make a fully crewed one look more appealing

 

[Alec Turner]

I really, REALLY hope hired NPCs because I'm in the same boat.

Oh they'll have to do hired NPCs. Realeasing a multi-crew upgrade without hired NPCs would be like releasing a looting and crafting upgrade without storage. [wacko] DERP!

 

[Viajero]

*Mod hat off

Oh they'll have to do hired NPCs. Realeasing a multi-crew upgrade without hired NPCs would be like releasing a looting and crafting upgrade without storage. [wacko] DERP!

I disagree. If the goal is to balance multi crew with individual ships for a set number of commanders and capping wings at 4 either way, then NPC´s would simply unbalance the equation in addition to tons of possibly unnecessary complexity.

The main trade off to multi-crew efficiency is that the team has to sacrifice a number of ships in the wing in order to multi-crew. NPC´s do not need to be in the equation in principle since that sacrifice is already the main balance mechanism.

Either way we are hypothesising way too much. We know very little yet.

 

[LKx]

I really, REALLY hope hired NPCs because I'm in the same boat.

If i remember correctly, they won't add npc crew for the moment, even because tbey don't know what the crew should do (i think it's about how to balance them).
However that might happen sooner or later (maybe when they add npc wingmates in a far far future)

 

[JosiahD]

Why would that screw you?

Do you feel screwed over by the use of wings?

In the absence of NPC wingmen......YES!
.
NPC wingmen and crew are an absolute must have in my opinion. Otherwise there's two features for a start....which people are asked to PAY for at the end of the day (as a component of a season).....that many don't get any value for money from. That's not to say the season itself is not value for money overall for those people who solo, but paying for a season and finding that a component as significant as wingmen or crew (each with significant advantages) are basically something a solo player will get no benefit from? Poor form at the very least in my opinion.

 

[JonnyC0mbat]

I hope they sort out the instancing issues before they do this. The amount of times ships are invisible to a member of a wing is way too high. What happens when the gunner can't see the target but the rest of the crew can?

 

[davedf]

*Mod hat off



I disagree. If the goal is to balance multi crew with individual ships for a set number of commanders and capping wings at 4 either way, then NPC´s would simply unbalance the equation in addition to tons of possibly unnecessary complexity.

The main trade off to multi-crew efficiency is that the team has to sacrifice a number of ships in the wing in order to multi-crew. NPC´s do not need to be in the equation in principle since that sacrifice is already the main balance mechanism.

Either way we are hypothesising way too much. We know very little yet.

Unfortunately I think you are correct, which is a shame as many solo players would enjoy hiring and managing crew. The needs of the PVP minority seems to trump everything else at the moment.

 

[Sugarat]

The needs of the PVP minority seems to trump everything else at the moment.

Nothing to do with PvP.. multiplayer yes

 

[JacoTheBad]

Manned turrets, shield directions on top of pip management, individual thruster power control to enhance maneuverability (needs advanced coordination with the pilot), shield mode switching such as thermal or kinetic shields at any given time, advanced maintenance of individual modules, maybe even powerplant probably without taking it offline, crew comanders can opt to launch and pilot fighters, leaving their posts so ship becomes single commander but you have interceptors now...

I can go on, should I?

I agree with you Cynaqq. Each station & it's controlled systems will probably have more depth, and be controlled in ways we currently do not have, to greater effect then we currently have.

.. Out on a limb into the unlikely however... I wonder if there will be any missions to be a crew member on an npc ship.

 

[Viajero]

*Mod hat off

Nothing to do with PvP.. multiplayer yes

Indeed. That balance would also be required for a co-op multi-crew team to fight against AI.

But we´ll see. We know almost nothing yet. Maybe we get NPC crews aswell, who knows.

Personally I think NPC crews would make more sense whenever NPC wing mates are added to the game, so the whole AI balance and behaviour can be tackled at the same time.

 

[davedf]

Nothing to do with PvP.. multiplayer yes

The post I was replying to suggested that the reason for no AI crew was that it would enable a wing of 4 ships to all be multi crewed (with AI) therefore making a non AI multicrew pointless- i.e. Unbalancing PVP

 

[Aewarin Jameson]

But then you have to ask the question how they intend to balance PvE when one ship can be worth 4 ships.

That is what puzzled me from reading the OPs quote : "Roles are balanced so that a fully-crewed ship is on par with 4 CMDRs in a wing."

How ? Do they fly about as a wing of 4 in formation or will it be 1 ship 4x as powerful ?

We shall find out in due course I guess.

 

[davedf]

*Mod hat off



Indeed. That balance would also be required for a multi-crew team to fight against AI.

But we´ll see. We know almost nothing yet. Maybe we get NPC crews aswell, who knows. Personally I think NPC crews would make more sense whenever NPC wing mates are added to the game.

That does not make sense. Who cares if it is solo player with AI crew or a human multicrew in PVE. Balance like that only matters in PvP

 

[Viajero]

*Mod hat off

That does not make sense. Who cares if it is solo player with AI crew or a human multicrew in PVE. Balance like that only matters in PvP

It also matters in co-op. If a number of players wants to play in the same ship but not against other players, why should they be penalized or favoured against AI? Those players would be sacrificing ships to crew up. The balance need is still there, much like today.

 

[Infidel Deity]

I suspect one person can coordinate a lot better than four. Especially when there is beer involved.

Everything works better with beer! [yesnod]

 

[davedf]

*Mod hat off


It also matters in co-op. If a number of players wants to play in the same ship but not against other players, why should they be penalized or favoured against AI? Those players would be sacrificing ships to crew up. The balance need is still there, much like today.

I don't understand how allowing solo players access to AI crew would affect this in any way in a PVE situation

 

[JosiahD]

NPCs already have access to NPC wingmen - and more than the wing size of 4 that WE'RE restricted to I might add. Therefore, safe to say then that NPCs will also have NPC crew. Now, that's fine for those players who already play with friends as wingmates or will have friends who can act as crew - the odds will be even, or at least more balanced. However, if NPCs can have NPC wingmates, and likely NPC crew also, it just makes no sense to further disadvantage solo players by not allowing them to have what at least the NPCs have.

 

[Terry Bruge-Hiplo]

I really hope NPC crew are an option! Even if you have friends, it'd still be nice.

Everything works better with beer! [yesnod]

Then why does the term "brewers droop" exist?