General / Off-Topic EU Referendum (UK only) - to Brexit or not to Brexit

[Cosmos]

How does that reconcile? You can't have both.

I'd hate to see the Union fracture, I genuinely believe the UK is better is as one unit, much as I believed we were better in Europe. But, if I were Scottish (I think NI is a bit more complicated) I'd be running for the exit right now given the storm ahead.

NI will never leave the union because of, er, the unionists.. I doubt Ireland will ever be united as one whole country given its history.

The problem is with Scotland right now and hate to say this but the SNP are a toxic bunch. I'm no lover of the Tory party in the UK but certain Scottish MPs have used nationalism to further their own cause. Sammond and Sturgeon are constantly playing the national card with Scots.

So whats the difference folks will ask? I think there is an important one; we Brits are all tied together by language and culture in a far greater way than we identify with the French or Germans.. Shared language and culture being the glue that connects us.

Scots will not get their percieved independence by giving it up to be members of the EU. On this one I think we are greater, and better together as the UK. Its the Tories who have created the division between north and south.. And its that party that needs to be dealt with.

 

[Sunleader]

You just repeating yourself.

Besides? I don't know the rest of it, but only 35% of France wants to leave. And before you ask these are fresh results. We will see the others reactions too.

Brexit Campaign kept Publishing Statistics of Polls where France and others usually scored with 60-75% of People want to Leave the EU.
Thats why People in this Camp seem to think that other Countries want to leave as well.

If one had checked a bit closer they notice that these Polls never asked about Leave or Remain.
The Polls they used were Questionaries from Magazines and Newspapers. Which asked if People are Happy with the EU as it is right now. Which was in most Countries Answered Negatively.
If you Check other Polls its easy to see however that this is not an Leave Vote. As Polls which ask for Leave or Remain are usually 60-70% Remain. Because most People which are not Happy with the EU. Are actually thinking its better to stay in the EU and Continue Developing it rather than standing Alone.


But well. Brexit Campaign being Notorious Liars is not exactly new.

 

[Minonian]

Brexit Campaign kept Publishing Statistics of Polls where France and others usually scored with 60-75% of People want to Leave the EU.
Thats why People in this Camp seem to think that other Countries want to leave as well.

If one had checked a bit closer they notice that these Polls never asked about Leave or Remain.
The Polls they used were Questionaries from Magazines and Newspapers. Which asked if People are Happy with the EU as it is right now. Which was in most Countries Answered Negatively.
If you Check other Polls its easy to see however that this is not an Leave Vote. As Polls which ask for Leave or Remain are usually 60-70% Remain. Because most People which are not Happy with the EU. Are actually thinking its better to stay in the EU and Continue Developing it rather than standing Alone.


But well. Brexit Campaign being Notorious Liars is not exactly new.

When it was? Radicals are only good in a few things, threatening, lying, trolling, bullying, and belíve all the what this world ever seen.

 

[ianw]

Its the Tories who have created the division between north and south.. And its that party that needs to be dealt with.

Who's going to deal with them?

Labour have been un-electable for years - even more so now with Corbyn. The only reason they got a sniff in the last couple of decades was because they got hijacked and used by Blair & Co.

Libdems - lol

UKIP - bigger lol

Monster Raving Loony Party - well you know - more credible than Labour or Libdems - but even so..

 

[Fyrd Judge]

How does that reconcile? You can't have both.

I'd hate to see the Union fracture, I genuinely believe the UK is better is as one unit, much as I believed we were better in Europe. But, if I were Scottish (I think NI is a bit more complicated) I'd be running for the exit right now given the storm ahead.

This is what many outside the UK do not understand , the English have no government of their own while Scotland does, Scottish MPs sat in the Uk government can vote on English matters, But English MPs cant on Scottish matters.

This vote is an example of the twisted UK politics. Scotland votes in the referendum yet does no accept the outcome of the majority vote of all the countries, that includes Scottish 1 million voters that wanted out.
If the English saw a vote to remain in the EU and a majority of the English votes wanted out, they could not say we want a English referendum to split from the UK or EU, Because we have no English parliament.

English have been angered for years because they have been denied their own parliament, the majority don't care what Scotland does because what is important is an Enlglish voice. This anger has now dragged the EU into our issues.

 

[Yaffle]

Essentially Westminster acts as the English Government.

Very little legislation of importance has zero affect on Wales or Scotland, so I don't see why we should remove their right to have a say/vote on it.

Some Private Legislation will have no effect there, I doubt the SNP would be bothered to vote, for example, on the Kent County Council (Filming on Highways) bill. (Note, that's not a Private Member's Bill, which is something different).

 

[Fyrd Judge]

Essentially Westminster acts as the English Government.

Very little legislation of importance has zero affect on Wales or Scotland, so I don't see why we should remove their right to have a say/vote on it.

Some Private Legislation will have no effect there, I doubt the SNP would be bothered to vote, for example, on the Kent County Council (Filming on Highways) bill. (Note, that's not a Private Member's Bill, which is something different).

No it does not

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_of_the_United_Kingdom

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

England can not vote out of the UK all other countries can vote out of the UK, this is due to the fact all other countries MPs vote to stop us having our own parliament and power, UK PARLIAMENT is where all countries MPS sit and dictate to all of UK.

All other countries in the UK also have their own parliaments accept England.

 

[Yaffle]

There are currently:

• 533 constituencies in England
• 59 in Scotland
• 40 in Wales, and
• 18 in Northern Ireland.

Yep, that's biased towards everywhere else. It is, in essence, an English thing. There is no need for yet another layer in England.

 

[ianw]

There are currently:

• 533 constituencies in England
• 59 in Scotland
• 40 in Wales, and
• 18 in Northern Ireland.

Yep, that's biased towards everywhere else. It is, in essence, an English thing. There is no need for yet another layer in England.

Not sure what point you are making - there are 10 times as many people in England compared to Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland?

Though I may be missing the point - numbers aren't really my thang.

 

[Yaffle]

Not sure what point you are making - there are 10 times as many people in England compared to Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland?

Though I may be missing the point - numbers aren't really my thang.

The point is that the English are NOT dictated to by the other UK countries. Westminster can, de facto, act as an English Parliament, and essentially does. An English Assembly would just add yet another layer of Government. This may be a good thing, but to my mind just drives home that UK is becoming less united all the time.

 

[Fyrd Judge]

There are currently:

• 533 constituencies in England
• 59 in Scotland
• 40 in Wales, and
• 18 in Northern Ireland.

Yep, that's biased towards everywhere else. It is, in essence, an English thing. There is no need for yet another layer in England.

It is that comment that angers the English, to say to them it is ok for N.Ireland, Scotland and Wales to have their own parliaments and then when the English want theirs they are denied it and then add to the insult, the scottish MPs, Welsh Mps vote on English matters . But it can not happen the other way around.

But, this ongoing of ignoring the demands of the English identity is why many do not care if the Scots Leave, as the English do care what pain the must go through to leave the EU to get their identity and voice back.

 

[Yaffle]

For the record, I'm English.

 

[Minonian]

This vote is an example of the twisted UK politics.

Yup! We can agree on this.

But how do i put it nicely? The English politics system had centuries to became like this.
If you ask me it's time some supervising and overhauling. And i also think the longer this situation is holds, the more drastic political consequences and rearrangement will be.

And considering how Conservative you boys can be? You are not going to like it!

 

[Fyrd Judge]

For the record, I'm English.

TheN you of all people should now this setup is unfair for a mass of people who are angered with MPs , EU and the constant moaning of the SNP

 

[ianw]

The point is that the English are NOT dictated to by the other UK countries. Westminster can, de facto, act as an English Parliament, and essentially does. An English Assembly would just add yet another layer of Government. This may be a good thing, but to my mind just drives home that UK is becoming less united all the time.

Well it depends on what/who you think are united in the first place.

Half of Scotland hates the other half with a passion - and one of the halves that hates the other half hates England too.

Same thing goes for Northern Ireland.

Not sure about Wales though there was a tendency to set holiday homes on fire a while back so I guess some of the Welsh aren't overly keen on tourists either.

So when you say the UK is becoming less united which bits are you referring to?

 

[Fyrd Judge]

Yup! We can agree on this.

But how do i put it nicely? The English politics system had centuries to became like this.
If you ask me it's time some supervising and overhauling. And i also think the longer this situation is holds, the more drastic political consequences and rearrangement will be.

And considering how Conservative you boys can be? You are not going to like it!

It is to late there is a revolt in England and wales and none are majority tory or labour they are mixed, and when SNP enters a national vote and doesn't accept the outcome one way, but would another, then DEMOCRACY in the Union is brocken. It feels the right wing , Nationalism is now rising.

 

[Minonian]

TheN you of all people should now this setup is unfair for a mass of people who are angered with MPs , EU and the constant moaning of the SNP

Fair, unfair, do you really think anyone going to give a damn, about your feelings amongst the stayers? they expressed their will to stay, so as Scotland, with his referendum now, the UK decided to quit despite the fact the scots, are only remained because of the EU. Do you really think after this they going to care about your hurt feelings? WAKEY WAKEY!!!

And unlike you they have a pretty good reason to not give a damn to the results of this referendum. You know what it is? The Very fact it was never meant to be happen. You know this and so do i. It was always meant to be a gambit, a bluff.And nothing more!


Cameron never wanted this to be happen, it's just... Spiraled out of control, because not in small part of his decisions.

 

[Fyrd Judge]

Fair, unfair, do you really think anyone going to give a damn, about your feelings amongst the stayers? they expressed their will to stay, so as Scotland, with his referendum now, the UK decided to quit despite the fact the scots, are only remained because of the EU. Do you really think after this they going to care about your hurt feelings? WAKEY WAKEY!!!

And unlike you they have a pretty good reason to not give a damn to the results of this referendum. You know what it is? The Very fact it was never meant to be happen. You know this and so do i. It was always meant to be a gambit, a bluff.And nothing more!


Cameron never wanted this to be happen, it's just... Spiraled out of control, because not in small part of his decisions.

A national referendum means all of uk added together, just like a general election, We did not have seperate referendums.

SNP want out of the UK at all costs, that is their policy before this vote. Any excuse they can find they will keep using to have 100s of referendums. This is why they are ignoring 1 million scots who wanted out and who with the rest of the UK won the vote

 

[Minonian]

A national referendum means all of uk added together, just like a general election, We did not have seperate referendums.

So what? They not going to care about the results of a gambit, which is ended up in a campaign of lies, and xenophobia.
Get it what i meant? They just don't care! If The UK not stays then they will quit.

 

[Fyrd Judge]

So what? They not going to care about the results of a gambit, which is ended up in a campaign of lies, and xenophobia.
Get it what i meant? They just don't care! If The UK not stays then they will quit.

They cant , UK government has to give permission for a referendum, thats the law.

Only 1.6 million wanted in 1 million wanted out. ANy vote given to the Scots would be a divided Scotland , again. SNP should respect the vote outcome of the 1 million sCOTTISH voters who wanted out, they won the referendum with the UK.