News Premium Beta access update

[Kris]

What is the point of putting out a 2 week old, known buggy build if there is a new bug-fixed build just around the corner?

The way i see it, there is always "better build around the corner". Just like now, i´m sure FD have internal build(s) that internal testers are testing. They are not public (meaning Alpha atm) because they are not ready for public testing.

I see it in waves. When one build is ready internaly, they will release it to current Alpha backers. Why not release it to wider audience (Premium Beta for example)? Because it might not be ready for that audience. It´s easier for FD to manage testing if its first released to current not so wide Alpha group. When its ready, they will release it to Premium Beta. That doesn´t mean that there is nothing to test. Opposite of that. When most critical issues have been dealt with first, internal testing group, and then, Alpha backers, then build is much more ready to test wider issues in Premium Beta.

And hopefuly Premium Beta players/testers will get it ready for regular Beta.

 

[Rog]

The way i see it, there is always "better build around the corner". Just like now, i´m sure FD have internal build(s) that internal testers are testing. They are not public (meaning Alpha atm) because they are not ready for public testing.

I see it in waves. When one build is ready internaly, they will release it to current Alpha backers. Why not release it to wider audience (Premium Beta for example)? Because it might not be ready for that audience. It´s easier for FD to manage testing if its first released to current not so wide Alpha group. When its ready, they will release it to Premium Beta. That doesn´t mean that there is nothing to test. Opposite of that. When most critical issues have been dealt with first, internal testing group, and then, Alpha backers, then build is much more ready to test wider issues in Premium Beta.

And hopefuly Premium Beta players/testers will get it ready for regular Beta.

Look, that's all very well, but it's not relevant here.

Read the newsletter link.

For anyone still interested in joining the Alpha now but unsure if it is worth it for a short period of time before we start the Premium Beta - here are two fantastic reasons;
- As we move into the Beta process, all Premium and standard Beta builds will be given exclusively to the Alpha players first.
- Also, all Alpha players will be granted a life time discount of 50% on ship insurance in game as a thank you for your support!

The two week exclusive access period is solely marketing to sell more alpha slots.

Anything else is kidding yourself.

 

[Juniper]

I honestly thought this had been cleared up and that the 2 week delay was only this current one. The artificial 2 week delay until the end of May was irritating, but I let it slide. If every build has that same 2 week delay, what then is the point of being a "beta tester"?

What is the point of putting out a 2 week old, known buggy build if there is a new bug-fixed build just around the corner? If that is the route the beta phase is taking then the beta-testers will need to have focused targets to test, targeted around suspected weak points. But then, if those bugs are still present in the new build, what use is our testing against the old build when we don't know how the dynamics might have changed in the new build?

If there is a new build within the 2 weeks, does the clock reset at that build and we have to wait 2 weeks to get that build, with no point in giving us the old build as it's now obsolete?

I didn't sign up for beta to pointlessly fart about in a known buggy build, I signed up to help FD test the game in development.

I don't think that's how it'll work. I think it will work in phases, much as the alpha process has up till now. There have only been 4 phases of Alpha, but several builds in that time.

As they add significant new features to each phase (which is what they're doing now with alpha), it makes sense to give the alpha folks first bite at that... if for no other reason than the user base is smaller and more manageable. There seems to be a perception that PB backers are expecting to play the game - kind of "early access" - rather than test something that may not even run. Whether that's actually true or not is by the by, but FD are bang on correct not to potentially expose themselves to that kind of bad PR. Better the devil they know - i.e. the alpha backers.

Since alpha 4 was released on the 15th, there have been three additional bugfix builds. It's a lot more stable & playable now than when it was first released. When PB2 is released (whenever that may be), a similar process will I think happen, so by the end of the two weeks (which I see as a maximum, not a hard wired timescale) it goes to the wider user base of PB. And so on through beta, and then gamma etc.

Bottom line is, the counter doesn't get reset just because there's a build. It'll be two weeks max no matter what.

 

[Pup]

The way i see it, there is always "better build around the corner". Just like now, i´m sure FD have internal build(s) that internal testers are testing. They are not public (meaning Alpha atm) because they are not ready for public testing.

I see it in waves. When one build is ready internaly, they will release it to current Alpha backers. Why not release it to wider audience (Premium Beta for example)? Because it might not be ready for that audience. It´s easier for FD to manage testing if its first released to current not so wide Alpha group. When its ready, they will release it to Premium Beta. That doesn´t mean that there is nothing to test. Opposite of that. When most critical issues have been dealt with first, internal testing group, and then, Alpha backers, then build is much more ready to test wider issues in Premium Beta.

And hopefuly Premium Beta players/testers will get it ready for regular Beta.

That sounds pretty much like how it is going to work. Just listening to Kerrash's stream and he briefly talks about this, and makes a good point in that you want a handful of people submitting the most obvious bugs, rather than hundreds of duplicates. I guess this is a result of the fact that the game will still realistically be in alpha (ie new features being added), and so Alpha backers will do an initial pass on it.

Must admit, I'm still not that keen on the idea, and think they should just give everyone in beta access at the same time, or within a much shorter period of time than 2 weeks.

 

[Helios]

Because it might not be ready for that audience.

IMHO that assumption is simply wrong. Assuming, that someone who spent 240 EUR on something has an inherently higher ability to test for and cope with problems of early versions of a piece of software than someone who paid 120 EUR simply has no basis at all.

 

[Helios]

(...)you want a handful of people submitting the most obvious bugs, rather than hundreds of duplicates.(...)

That makes sense if they delay the big feature-updates and release all other builds simultaneously. If however they were to release all builds with a delay that would mean, that PB-backers would be "testing for" and "reporting" bugs and problems that have already been fixed in alphanian-elite-beta-builds ... thus leading to much more tickets than necessary.

 

[Kris]

IMHO that assumption is simply wrong. Assuming, that someone who spent 240 EUR on something has an inherently higher ability to test for and cope with problems of early versions of a piece of software than someone who paid 120 EUR simply has no basis at all.

You completely missed my point. Point is not cost, but target audience size. Greatest advantage of Alpha backers is that they are limited. They are like extended internal testing team. It´s easier for FD to test issues than with much much wider Premium Beta playerbase.

 

[Tobytyke1972]

Personally I think FD or atleast a mod speaking on behalf of FD need to address this.

Most PB's are expecting to have access on 30th to PB1. If this is not the case then we need to be told. We keep hearing that PB starts on the 30th, not PB start 30th but only for alphas.

Firstly that isn't fare, also if that is the case it's has been miss-sold.

Most PB are chopping at the bit to join in has do their bit.

If this is the case the Alphas get PB1 2 weeks before PBs what happens when we get to standard Beta, Is it Alphas first, then 2 weeks PBs then another 2 weeks SB.

I think this is all a miss understanding and the 2 weeks is just for the initial (IE transition from A4 to PB1) and the original comment of Alphas getting access 2 hrs prior is whats should be expected.

 

[kilvenny]

As a PB1 I am now resigned to the process of each build going to the alphas first for reasons well documented. What is not clear to me is how that impacts me as a beta player.

If the Alphas get a build first, does that mean there is a gap where I basically cannot "play" while they do their thing or are FD going to maintain 2 "live" builds? Clearly there is no point in betas continuing testing as FD are then onto the new build (like alpha 1 currently) so it would make sense for FD to maintain only 1 "live" build.

Apologies if I missed something somewhere

 

[Rog]

You completely missed my point. Point is not cost, but target audience size. Greatest advantage of Alpha backers is that they are limited. They are like extended internal testing team. It´s easier for FD to test issues than with much much wider Premium Beta playerbase.

Well perhaps they should have mentioned it when they were selling beta places, rather than a few weeks ago in newsletter 18? If they didn't want a load of beta participants, then why did they sell expensive beta testing places?

 

[Kris]

That makes sense if they delay the big feature-updates and release all other builds simultaneously.

We have to wait and see (how it works in practice). My guess is that they will wait if any gamebreaking bug got through. If not, they will release it quicker to Premium Beta.

Cautious approach.

 

[AnnuverScotinExile]

I've worked as a software engineer for 24 years. I have a very good understanding of software development, 15 of those years were spent in the games industry.

And you still thought that in 2 weeks the alpha testers would shake out all the bugs and development would fix them?

 

[Kris]

Well perhaps they should have mentioned it when they were selling beta places, rather than a few weeks ago in newsletter 18? If they didn't want a load of beta participants, then why did they sell expensive beta testing places?

They want all players, and i´m sure they will be very happy for the money more expensive packages will bring.

They just don´t want to release it straight to wider audience yet. Step by step. I have said it before, that i think Premium Beta release will be one of biggest tests so far. So far alpha has be quite limited. Premium Beta will bring much much more people. Hopefuly all goes well, and next weekend forum won´t be overwhelmed with angry people who can´t get their Premium Beta to work.

 

[Teefur]

I don't think that's how it'll work. I think it will work in phases, much as the alpha process has up till now. There have only been 4 phases of Alpha, but several builds in that time.

As they add significant new features to each phase (which is what they're doing now with alpha), it makes sense to give the alpha folks first bite at that... if for no other reason than the user base is smaller and more manageable. There seems to be a perception that PB backers are expecting to play the game - kind of "early access" - rather than test something that may not even run. Whether that's actually true or not is by the by, but FD are bang on correct not to potentially expose themselves to that kind of bad PR. Better the devil they know - i.e. the alpha backers.

Since alpha 4 was released on the 15th, there have been three additional bugfix builds. It's a lot more stable & playable now than when it was first released. When PB2 is released (whenever that may be), a similar process will I think happen, so by the end of the two weeks (which I see as a maximum, not a hard wired timescale) it goes to the wider user base of PB. And so on through beta, and then gamma etc.

Bottom line is, the counter doesn't get reset just because there's a build. It'll be two weeks max no matter what.

If I'm reading you correctly, what I think you're saying is:

Phase X build 1 gets released to alpha testers. 2 weeks later beta testers get whatever build alphas are on at that time.

Phase X+1 build 1 gets released to alpha testers. Beta testers twiddle their thumbs for 2 weeks until they join the alpha testers at build 1+y

etc.

In this scenario "Phase X build 1" is Alpha 4.0, assuming no further builds before 30th betas join alphas on Alpha 4.03 (or whatever it gets labelled to fit Beta phase). If there are new builds beta testers join alphas on 30th at Alpha 4.03+b.

That I can see the sense of. Gets potential world destroying bugs squashed before releasing to the larger testbase, but 2 weeks seems an excessive amount of time for a world breaker to go undiscovered. If it takes that long then alpha testers aren't doing the job effectively.

Of course if that 2 weeks is discover+fix, that's a slightly different picture.

 

[tataienstein]

I need a recap, sry i'm new, and as fast as i read evrything i will probably collapse!
So far if i actually buy the Premium beta i will have accesso to a few singleplayer missions of a old alpha client and from the 30 may i will get the actual alpha client with more than a few singleplayer combat missions?
Am i correct?


thnx

 

[Rog]

They want all players, and i´m sure they will be very happy for the money more expensive packages will bring.

They just don´t want to release it straight to wider audience yet. Step by step. I have said it before, that i think Premium Beta release will be one of biggest tests so far. So far alpha has be quite limited. Premium Beta will bring much much more people. Hopefuly all goes well, and next weekend forum won´t be overwhelmed with angry people who can´t get their Premium Beta to work.

Indeed, I sincerely hope it all goes swimmingly, but I fear you miss my point.

If a company offers you something for money, and you purchase it, it's not entirely unreasonable to expect what you've been told you were buying, and what you paid for.

I hate analogies, but...

If you ordered a new car, then just before delivery the dealer said Mr Smith (Who bought the model up from you, and as a thank-you to him) was going to drive it around for two weeks, just in case the electric windows are a bit wonky, you might not be entirely pleased. Especially if they tried to make it out as a favour to you.

Again read the newsletter it was announced in. You can pretend it's for practical reasons all you like, but it's there in black and white as a marketing carrot to dangle in front of prospective alpha purchasers.

 

[noodle]

 

[Rog]

Spoiler

You are entirely correct.

Like I said, I really didn't want to get drawn into this again, but it still wrankles.

Time to head out for a cheeky pint/s.

 

[Juniper]

If I'm reading you correctly, what I think you're saying is... snip

Pretty much, except that the beta guys don't need to twiddle their thumbs while the alpha guys are in the 2-week window of testing the next phase. They can carry on testing the current beta phase, reporting bugs, testing out scenarios etc, irrespective of what's going on for the alpha folks.

It makes sense to me as a software developer that this is how it will all happen, because that's what I would do (and have done at various companies where there is a QMS team (alpha) and UAT (premium beta)). But we won't really know until it all starts next week.

 

[EvilDmen]

I feel I have to come out of lurking to say something.

I've been in many Alpha and Beta tests. Anarchy Online, Earth & Beyond, Eve, Linage II to name a few.

I have always been under the impression that Alpha testers ironed out bugs and Beta testers provided server stress with numbers whilst finding remaining bugs/exploits.

I have no problem with their schedule of phase/build release, or how they want to roll it out. The progress I have seen recently is phenomenal and I'm glad I get to be a part of it as a Beta testor.