Cobra MKIV and Viper MKIV

vizvayu · Jun 24, 2016

I love my Viper MKIV but I have to be honest... it's as agile as a Python. And the Cobra MKIV not only is less agile, but it's insanely slow. Both are small, light ships but they are too different from the earlier versions. I know they have more slots, better shield and hull than their predecesors but, do they have to be SO much slower to fly? Could you please give them at least a little bit more agility?
If you tested any of those ships, what do you think?

Starender · Jun 25, 2016

Between a Cobra mk4 and a Viper mk4, i'd choose either the Cobra mk3 for internals/speed or the DBscout for fight/long range jumps.

vizvayu · Jun 25, 2016

Starender said:
Between a Cobra mk4 and a Viper mk4, i'd choose either the Cobra mk3 for internals/speed or the DBscout for fight/long range jumps.

Exactly! That's why I'm suggesting to give the Viper MKIV a little more agility and the Cobra MKIV a little more agility and more speed. I'm not talking making them the best ships in the game, only give them a little boost to make them usable.

Starender · Jun 25, 2016

vizvayu said:
Exactly! That's why I'm suggesting to give the Viper MKIV a little more agility and the Cobra MKIV a little more agility and more speed. I'm not talking making them the best ships in the game, only give them a little boost to make them usable.

mk+ of ships are known to be weaker and weaker in Elite Dangerous, it's the exact opposite of technology evolution, that's why i suggested to put the original Cobra mk1 which must be ultra OP if we follow this logic.

vizvayu · Jun 25, 2016

Starender said:
mk+ of ships are known to be weaker and weaker in Elite Dangerous, it's the exact opposite of technology evolution, that's why i suggested to put the original Cobra mk1 which must be ultra OP if we follow this logic.

Well I don't think that "logic" is very logical, so again, that's why I'm suggesting to boost both MKIV's a little bit

MK1 should be old, less advanced than MKIII's en even more so than MKIV's.

metatheurgist · Jun 25, 2016

The Viper MKIV is a decent ship. I'm pretty sure it's more agile than a Python (according to specs 4 vs 6). For that price it's good value.

TuxedoSteve · Jun 25, 2016

metatheurgist said:
The Viper MKIV is a decent ship. I'm pretty sure it's more agile than a Python (according to specs 4 vs 6). For that price it's good value.

Those agility stats have next to no relevance to actual ingame ship stats, but beyond that 4 for the Viper Mk.IV is lower than the Python's 6. Though the Python was given a 6 before it was nerfed to be one of the slowest turning ships when outside the blue.

According to this, the Viper Mk.IV is has a faster pitch rate than the Python, that is if both ships are at optimal mass, however. Realistically, the Python is going to be further below the optimal mass of its A rated thrusters than the Viper will be on its thrusters. So, given the Python will see a higher percentage increase in speed and maneuverability on those stats than the Viper will, the Python will actually have a higher pitch rate when in the blue zone. The viper will still be faster, have higher acceleration, and higher maneuverability outside of the blue zone though.

Manfriest · Jun 25, 2016

I love the look of the cobra mkiv, but I have no idea what I'd use it for over other ships in the game.

vizvayu · Jun 26, 2016

Manfriest said:
I love the look of the cobra mkiv, but I have no idea what I'd use it for over other ships in the game.

Right, because performance wise, the Cobra MKIV is not a very good ship. There are better performing ships, so there's not much use to it.
I'm flying a Viper MKIV, and even when I love my ship, every time I get interdicted I'm at a disadvantage because technically it's not a very good ship either.
That's why I'm suggesting a little boost for those ships, to make them a more viable alternative.

metatheurgist · Jun 27, 2016

vizvayu said:
I'm flying a Viper MKIV, and even when I love my ship, every time I get interdicted I'm at a disadvantage because technically it's not a very good ship either.

I butt kicked an Elite Imperial Courier when the AI was at the height of it's lunacy in a Viper IV, so I don't know how much better you expect it to be? If I see a high rank FAS, Python or Anaconda my first instinct will be to run. A Vulture I'd probably take on depending on my mood.

vizvayu · Jun 27, 2016

metatheurgist said:
I butt kicked an Elite Imperial Courier when the AI was at the height of it's lunacy in a Viper IV, so I don't know how much better you expect it to be? If I see a high rank FAS, Python or Anaconda my first instinct will be to run. A Vulture I'd probably take on depending on my mood.

Well that simply means you're a good pilot, but not necessarily that the ship is at the same level of other ships of that size/weight. A DBS could literally run circles around a Viper MKIV, same for an ASP Scout.
And I'm not saying it's a bad ship, I wouldn't be using it as my main otherwise... I'm just saying is not as good as other ships in that size and weight level technically. Like I said before, it has roughly the same agility as a Python, and for a small ship that can't be good. I feel like it's a bit unbalanced. A bit, I'm not saying they should make another DBS... but maybe get it a bit closer to the Viper MKIII.
Same for the Cobra MKIV, which is a very nice ship but slow as hell and even less agile than a Python. And it doesn't make any sense because, again, it's a small ship.

Chrystoph · Jun 27, 2016

I think, perhaps, you need to make some comparisons.

Both the Viper 3 and the Cobra 3 come in as Fighters.

The 4s SHOULD be Fighter/Bomber or Strike fighter class, but they handle more like Light Bombers.

Things like the Python get up into Heavy Bomber or have to switch to shipping equivalents like the PT boats.

The point is, you don't expect a Typhoon to be as agile as a Tornado, but it should be more agile than a Lancer.

vizvayu · Jun 27, 2016

Chrystoph said:
I think, perhaps, you need to make some comparisons.

Both the Viper 3 and the Cobra 3 come in as Fighters.

The 4s SHOULD be Fighter/Bomber or Strike fighter class, but they handle more like Light Bombers.

Things like the Python get up into Heavy Bomber or have to switch to shipping equivalents like the PT boats.

The point is, you don't expect a Typhoon to be as agile as a Tornado, but it should be more agile than a Lancer.

Ok, but actually they both (Cobra MKIV and Viper MKIV) handle like heavy bombers as well

(The Cobra maybe more like a B52)
In the description, both ships are promoted as fighters (Viper as a Heavy Fighter and Cobra as a Combat Vessel). But the agility and speed are not what you expect from a fighter class ship. Even less from a small fighter. I mean, a FDL could run circles around the Cobra MKIV easily, and it a much bigger and heavier ship.

Chrystoph · Jun 28, 2016

vizvayu said:
Ok, but actually they both (Cobra MKIV and Viper MKIV) handle like heavy bombers as well (The Cobra maybe more like a B52)
In the description, both ships are promoted as fighters (Viper as a Heavy Fighter and Cobra as a Combat Vessel). But the agility and speed are not what you expect from a fighter class ship. Even less from a small fighter. I mean, a FDL could run circles around the Cobra MKIV easily, and it a much bigger and heavier ship.

I don't disagree, and that is why I put a SHOULD in my description of the 4s.

The point I was trying to make is that the 4s are not performing in the niche they theoretically belong to.

gonzoid · Jun 28, 2016

Is the Cobra mk IV available again? Last I heard it could not be bought.

metatheurgist · Jun 28, 2016

vizvayu said:
Ok, but actually they both (Cobra MKIV and Viper MKIV) handle like heavy bombers as well

If I can turn a Viper IV fast enough to keep up with an Imperial Courier, I don't think you can class it as a heavy bomber.

Velixar · Jun 28, 2016

I wish I could get a Cobra mklV.

GeneralIdea1964 · Jun 28, 2016

gonzoid said:
Is the Cobra mk IV available again? Last I heard it could not be bought.

I think it's a restricted purchase for original backers and Alpha/Beta backers.
But as per this thread, your not missing much.

Back on topic:-

Relating it to cars, the original mini (for example) was widely rated to be a great small car. But when the new one was created (by new owners), it was twice the weight and nowhere near as 'cute'. For it's size there is not as much luggage space and it's a lot more expensive.

So ... the 2nd version of something may not be as much of an upgrade as you'd think.
ED mirroring 'real' life?!

Infidel Deity · Jun 28, 2016

I have not yet been interested in the Vipers.

But the "Cobra" Mk IV, for sure could be made into something that actually resembles a Cobra - and I'm NOT talking about its looks.
To promise away a new Cobra type, if you bought a specific commodity from Frontier and deliver the Mk IV, was fraudulent.
A disgrace.
Dishonest.

Stagno Jones · Jun 29, 2016

I tuned a Cobra IV up to the max in beta hoping the modifications would turn it from being a slow lumbering lump in something usable,but no it was still a potato

. Shame really as it would be a great little ship if it handled in a logical way for it's size.