Newcomer / Intro CZ's no fun for average lone player since 2.1

[RobWolves]

I'm a casual player but have been enjoying BH, combat, etc since launch. Last night was the first time I've hopped on since the new 2.1 AI and since the messed up PP, so I'm out of touch with exactly what they've done.

However, I was in a system with a CZ and though, perfect. I'll go and spend an hour just farming some bonds. Whilst CZ's could get a little hairy before to the point I might have to SC out of there and back in, last night was a completely different experience.

I jumped in and chose a faction to fight for. Within 20 seconds, I had been engaged and my shields taken down by a railgun. No problem I thought, I've been here before. So I just turned and ran, normally boosting away back into SC before I take too much damage. Nah.....this time, I struggled to gain engouh distance before my FSD had charged and ended up disabled with no thrusters, etc. At that point oddly, the enemy disengaged and didn't finish me off.

No problem, I thought, maybe I'm just rusty. I rebuy my ship, jump back in to the CZ, but this time hold my distance after picking a faction. Good, no one's immediately attacking me this time. I decide to be cautious this time, so I cycle through the hostiles and pick isolated ones under attack. I find a python, knock him down to about 15%, then suddenly, I'm being attacked by 3x hostiles at once. Again, before 2.1, no problem, I'd have run and usually got away. Not a chance this time. No sooner had I done my first boost, my shields were down. 3 more boosts and I'm down to 26% hull.......I'm not getting away again......boom, I'm dead.

I used to find CZ's so much fun, but as a casual player without a monster combat ship, I can see after 2.1 I'm going to struggle in CZ's as a lone fighter, which is a shame. Don't get me wrong, I think the AI combat needed a little improvement, but I think they've gone too far in that the casual player or lone players will have to think twice before engaging in certain activities.

I enjoyed it pre-2.1 because I could do anything I chose and knew my biggest danger was other CMDR's. Now I'm literally watching everything and so much as a graze on my ship, I know I could be in trouble whether NPC or CMDR. I don't mind a challenge, but I still want it to be fun and I don't feel like I can enjoy CZ's anymore, at least not until I either get a better ship or a wing, which is a shame.

There will be people that agree and disagree, but it's just my pennies worth.

 

[BigBANGtheory [VR]]

What I find helps is doing a bit of recon before committing to a side in a CZ, sometimes things are not even and you really don't want to be pulling that trigger.
The second bit of advice is "divide and conquer" in other words pick on a target that is more isolated, separated and already engaged.
Third bit of advice is try to lower the number of enemies (which sounds obvious) in other words take out fast Eagle's & Vipers quickly before the juicy Pythons or tanking Asp's

One thing that really narc's me off about CZ'z is you can align yourself to a naval faction, fight hand tooth and nail for them, be the hero etc etc then when you trade in the Combat Bonds you get no recognition for it. Yet you go deliver some insignificant piece of data and you'll get rank increase... wth is that about?

 

[X-Terminator]

CZs are like an early idea of ingame CQC which hasn't progessed at all. They should be more alive across the whole of System Space. Dropping into CheckPoints and Beacons to make them Compromised. Around Stations/Outposts/Bases to reign havoc and see Capitol Ships arrive. Above all these Conflicts MUST be winnable and so end. Whilst they are on the Station should be in lockdown (letterbox closed) thus making trading impossible until it's over (the only inconvenience is getting away to find elsewhere) or to dock if not yet lockdown. You'd just need to nav around the Ships and hope you're not attacked (but should be possible even without picking a Side).
I think we are all together on this...FD do not add enough CONTENT for us to play their game to its fullest potential, i.e. they have not created much gameplay in a Sandbox with 2 tire rules to NPC and no ways to interact other than Shoot or drop Cargo.

 

[BigBANGtheory [VR]]

CZs are like an early idea of ingame CQC which hasn't progessed at all. They should be more alive across the whole of System Space. Dropping into CheckPoints and Beacons to make them Compromised. Around Stations/Outposts/Bases to reign havoc and see Capitol Ships arrive. Above all these Conflicts MUST be winnable and so end. Whilst they are on the Station should be in lockdown (letterbox closed) thus making trading impossible until it's over (the only inconvenience is getting away to find elsewhere) or to dock if not yet lockdown. You'd just need to nav around the Ships and hope you're not attacked (but should be possible even without picking a Side).
I think we are all together on this...FD do not add enough CONTENT for us to play their game to its fullest potential, i.e. they have not created much gameplay in a Sandbox with 2 tire rules to NPC and no ways to interact other than Shoot or drop Cargo.

I hadn't really thought of it like that before, but you know what I think you're right. FD should totally do that imho...

 

[Rob_the_Sparky]

Much of this is system shock but as you clearly don't know I thought you might want to know about emergency re-boot.
.
If you get stranded with no thrusters then you can use this to cannibalise other systems to get your thrusters back online, minimal health but can get you back for repairs. Access via the right hand menu, can't remember the details as I've only used it once but it would have saved you from one of your re-buys.

 

[Cesnek]

I'm a casual player but have been enjoying BH, combat, etc since launch. Last night was the first time I've hopped on since the new 2.1 AI and since the messed up PP, so I'm out of touch with exactly what they've done.

However, I was in a system with a CZ and though, perfect. I'll go and spend an hour just farming some bonds. Whilst CZ's could get a little hairy before to the point I might have to SC out of there and back in, last night was a completely different experience.

I jumped in and chose a faction to fight for. Within 20 seconds, I had been engaged and my shields taken down by a railgun. No problem I thought, I've been here before. So I just turned and ran, normally boosting away back into SC before I take too much damage. Nah.....this time, I struggled to gain engouh distance before my FSD had charged and ended up disabled with no thrusters, etc. At that point oddly, the enemy disengaged and didn't finish me off.

No problem, I thought, maybe I'm just rusty. I rebuy my ship, jump back in to the CZ, but this time hold my distance after picking a faction. Good, no one's immediately attacking me this time. I decide to be cautious this time, so I cycle through the hostiles and pick isolated ones under attack. I find a python, knock him down to about 15%, then suddenly, I'm being attacked by 3x hostiles at once. Again, before 2.1, no problem, I'd have run and usually got away. Not a chance this time. No sooner had I done my first boost, my shields were down. 3 more boosts and I'm down to 26% hull.......I'm not getting away again......boom, I'm dead.

I used to find CZ's so much fun, but as a casual player without a monster combat ship, I can see after 2.1 I'm going to struggle in CZ's as a lone fighter, which is a shame. Don't get me wrong, I think the AI combat needed a little improvement, but I think they've gone too far in that the casual player or lone players will have to think twice before engaging in certain activities.

I enjoyed it pre-2.1 because I could do anything I chose and knew my biggest danger was other CMDR's. Now I'm literally watching everything and so much as a graze on my ship, I know I could be in trouble whether NPC or CMDR. I don't mind a challenge, but I still want it to be fun and I don't feel like I can enjoy CZ's anymore, at least not until I either get a better ship or a wing, which is a shame.

There will be people that agree and disagree, but it's just my pennies worth.

SAME HERE! AND SOLO PLAYER MOD BEGIN TO BE UNPLAYBLE!!! i HAVE COBRA IV i invest to module about 25 milions, and they killed me in 20-30 second. All ships are more powerfull then mine, i dont understand what they do with this game! SOLO MOD IS UNPLAYABLE!

 

[Ian Skippy]

With all due respect, but rather than spend all that time complaining 'its now impossible for casuals', you could also have asked for help. Its perfectly possible to do CZs solo in cheap ships. You wont be rambo and you'll need to be smart about your outfitting choices, but its simply not true that its only for hardcore players in huge corvettes. How about you start by posting a coriolis link to your current ship?

 

[Cesnek]

Much of this is system shock but as you clearly don't know I thought you might want to know about emergency re-boot.
.
If you get stranded with no thrusters then you can use this to cannibalise other systems to get your thrusters back online, minimal health but can get you back for repairs. Access via the right hand menu, can't remember the details as I've only used it once but it would have saved you from one of your re-buys.

THERE IS NO TIME TO DO IT.

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with all due respect, i am casual player and i have my tactis which works fine until to this "fu--cking idiotic update. I will not change my ship, i will no change my mods which cost me 25 milions. i just want playable game for solo player, i am tired and bored with that i was always hunted down NPC wings, but i cant found own.

IF YOU HAVE SOME GOOD TIPS HOW TO SURVIVE WITH COBRA MK IV against 3-5 ships, tell me, i am a one big ear.

 

[kdogg788]

IF YOU HAVE SOME GOOD TIPS HOW TO SURVIVE WITH COBRA MK IV against 3-5 ships, tell me, i am a one big ear.

That's the key sentence right there... surviving in a Cobra MKIV vs. 3-5 other ships?! Only the most elite of players would try that and have a chance of getting through the encounter. Did you know you can swap out modules and get full value for them when you sell them? If your Cobra has a trade setup of course you'll get owned. From my experience with the last CG, I can tell you that CZs are not a place for casual players "farming" as you said above. They are a form of high end combat content for the higher leveled players with high level dedicated combat ships of which the Cobra MKIV is not. The AI was buffed to amazing levels but it has since been toned down a bit. Try a Resource area next time.

-k

 

[Chris Simon]

THERE IS NO TIME TO DO IT.

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with all due respect, i am casual player and i have my tactis which works fine until to this "fu--cking idiotic update. I will not change my ship, i will no change my mods which cost me 25 milions. i just want playable game for solo player, i am tired and bored with that i was always hunted down NPC wings, but i cant found own.

IF YOU HAVE SOME GOOD TIPS HOW TO SURVIVE WITH COBRA MK IV against 3-5 ships, tell me, i am a one big ear.

As we are shouting, now, apparently, let me join.
THERE IS NO WAY TO SURVIVE AND ATTACK OF 5 SHIPS, NO MATTER WHAT YOU FLY.
You can only flee and have shields good enough to hold those 10s it takes to jump out.

And I am sorry, but it's not the update, that is idiotic. Idiotic is refusing to change your tactics, loadout or ship WHEN IT CLEARLY DOESN'T WORK!

NPCs before 2.1 were broken. They were broken for a very long time, so people who joined within that period of time got used to the fact that AI doesn't fight back and one can slaugter ships ten times bigger by dozens.
Well, that isn't the case, anymore. Better get used to it, if you want to keep playing (which is, as you might not know, optional)

 

[RobWolves]

With all due respect, but rather than spend all that time complaining 'its now impossible for casuals', you could also have asked for help. Its perfectly possible to do CZs solo in cheap ships. You wont be rambo and you'll need to be smart about your outfitting choices, but its simply not true that its only for hardcore players in huge corvettes. How about you start by posting a coriolis link to your current ship?

To be fair, I didn't complain and say it was impossible. I just said I don't find it as much fun now. Whilst I still had to hand pick some of my targets pre 2.1, I was still able to get stuck in and enjoyed that more. I understand different tactics and loadouts are required now, I'm okay with adjusting and changing. I was just saying as more of an observation from my own point of view that it's a shame as I enjoyed it how it was before. I didn't even say I'm going to stop playing because of it, so please try not to label me as a complainer. I'm the first to ask for help in here and have done on many occassion. In this instance, I'm just going to miss how it was before.

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Much of this is system shock but as you clearly don't know I thought you might want to know about emergency re-boot.
.
If you get stranded with no thrusters then you can use this to cannibalise other systems to get your thrusters back online, minimal health but can get you back for repairs. Access via the right hand menu, can't remember the details as I've only used it once but it would have saved you from one of your re-buys.

Actually, I didn't know that, so thanks. Although on this occassion it was quicker to just self destruct and rebuy, as the cost was so low and I wanted to get straight back out there and try again.

 

[Chris Simon]

To be fair, I didn't complain and say it was impossible. I just said I don't find it as much fun now. Whilst I still had to hand pick some of my targets pre 2.1, I was still able to get stuck in and enjoyed that more. I understand different tactics and loadouts are required now, I'm okay with adjusting and changing. I was just saying as more of an observation from my own point of view that it's a shame as I enjoyed it how it was before. I didn't even say I'm going to stop playing because of it, so please try not to label me as a complainer. I'm the first to ask for help in here and have done on many occassion. In this instance, I'm just going to miss how it was before.

We tend to get lazy when we get the chance.
Sometimes I miss the old AI, too, but then I remember how I played CZs. One hand under my chin and the other holding a trigger. And I did it for ten minutes and then got bored or ran out of ammo.
Now I also remain in the CZ for ten minutes, but when I'm leaving, my chair is soaked with sweat and I'm grinning.

 

[RobWolves]

We tend to get lazy when we get the chance.
Sometimes I miss the old AI, too, but then I remember how I played CZs. One hand under my chin and the other holding a trigger. And I did it for ten minutes and then got bored or ran out of ammo.
Now I also remain in the CZ for ten minutes, but when I'm leaving, my chair is soaked with sweat and I'm grinning.

I think my problem is whilst I've been playing since launch, I'm still relatively new in terms of flying hours clocked. So maybe I've reached that lazy stage maybe not. I will tweak my ship and tactics and keep trying, I just hope I end up finding it fun again, or even stressfull (in a fun way, when you escape by your last breath of oxygen)

 

[CMDR Mr. Boombastic]

Echoing some of the points already made.

• CZs are not the place to go if you have a non-combat ship. I would classify a Viper Mk III, Vulture, FAS, FdL as dedicated combat ships. Maybe others like DBS (highly manoeuvrable), Python (with turreted weapons and FA off while turning but due to it's flattened shape an easy target) .
• If you want credits, RES are more profitable. CZ is more about the kills than credits so good for increasing your combat rank/skils.
• Consider to high-wake when your shields are down as FSD will boot up faster - not mass-locked by the ship when you high-wake. You should set up the target system to high-wake to as soon as you drop-in to the CZ for your escape plan.
• Reboot/Repair (Right-HUD Functions tab) when your FSD/Thrusters have gone off-line are a life-saver. Saved me twice last weekend during the Community Goal CZ in my FAS.
• Also as a casual player I would recommend practicing combat in a RES before attempting a CZ

 

[goemon]

first of all - yes, CZ are much more challenging. they are even more challenging with a higher rank, and above that when taking missions.

but

without a monster combat ship

isn't true. actually they are easier if you fly small fast ships which aren't a high threat-level. viper mk III. i fly a DBS in combatzones. if you fly a "monster combat ships", CZ are getting even more challenging - many threads on the forums here about that the last weeks.

i personally relearned combat in 2.0. at nav beacons with cheap small ships. after that i took a hrp-cobra mk III to combatzones. some sessions, and you'll be back to where you have been. you'll need more tactic, and you need to run more often.

but you don't need a "monster combat ship".

 

[Chris Simon]

I agree with goemon that smaller ships are better for CZs, as they attract less aggro. I'd say Viper, DBS and Courier are the best. IMHO, anyway.
In large ship, no matter how much shields you have, you WILL attract attention and either leave or die, and both of those options don't get you exactly a lot of money

 

[BigBANGtheory [VR]]

There is also I'd say very little reason atm for a lone player to go to a CZ, an annihilation mission might one but consider you earn more money from RES bounty hunting and faster rank progression from delivering data or cargo.

 

[Frank]

There is also I'd say very little reason atm for a lone player to go to a CZ, an annihilation mission might one but consider you earn more money from RES bounty hunting and faster rank progression from delivering data or cargo.

Why wouldn't a single player want to go to a CZ? Is there something up the the BGS?

 

[RobWolves]

first of all - yes, CZ are much more challenging. they are even more challenging with a higher rank, and above that when taking missions.

but


isn't true. actually they are easier if you fly small fast ships which aren't a high threat-level. viper mk III. i fly a DBS in combatzones. if you fly a "monster combat ships", CZ are getting even more challenging - many threads on the forums here about that the last weeks.

i personally relearned combat in 2.0. at nav beacons with cheap small ships. after that i took a hrp-cobra mk III to combatzones. some sessions, and you'll be back to where you have been. you'll need more tactic, and you need to run more often.

but you don't need a "monster combat ship".

I would've completely agreed with you prior to last night and may well do after some tweaking, etc. I have never flown anything big and always use smaller combat ready ship and I find them much more fun to fly. I've made my income solely through combat and I've never had a problem before, yes I've died a few times and had hairy exciting moments, but last night I was still getting targetted by multiple NPC's (not normally a problem in itself, I just run) but didn't even have chance to scarper. They just shredded me too quickly.

I need to jump back into a CZ and figure things out tactically and loadout wise, cause I'm not letting these NPC's get the better of me.

Does still being aligned to a PP effect my attractiveness as a targer in CZ's or only in other scenarios?

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There is also I'd say very little reason atm for a lone player to go to a CZ, an annihilation mission might one but consider you earn more money from RES bounty hunting and faster rank progression from delivering data or cargo.

There was a reason for me and that's because I loved and enjoyed the volume of ships doing battle, etc. So much fun. So for me, if I can figure things out, there will still be a reason to go, cause I don't do it purely for credits.

 

[goemon]

I would've completely agreed with you prior to last night and may well do after some tweaking, etc. I have never flown anything big and always use smaller combat ready ship and I find them much more fun to fly. I've made my income solely through combat and I've never had a problem before, yes I've died a few times and had hairy exciting moments, but last night I was still getting targetted by multiple NPC's (not normally a problem in itself, I just run) but didn't even have chance to scarper. They just shredded me too quickly.

I need to jump back into a CZ and figure things out tactically and loadout wise, cause I'm not letting these NPC's get the better of me.

Does still being aligned to a PP effect my attractiveness as a targer in CZ's or only in other scenarios?

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There was a reason for me and that's because I loved and enjoyed the volume of ships doing battle, etc. So much fun. So for me, if I can figure things out, there will still be a reason to go, cause I don't do it purely for credits.

what have you been flying yesterday? was it a faster ship?

also - you might want to change your loadout in 2.1. - pointdefence is very usefull now. and with less time on target, hard hitting weapons (beams, frags...). also, hrp...

anyway i would recommend testing your build at a nav beacon first, before taking it to the heat.



there is an old, but valid guide to cz tactics here: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...e-to-Surviving-a-Combat-Zone-in-a-Starfighter

i don't think being pledged changes things in a cz.