Newcomer / Intro How to become better at combat. Hearing the same "tips" everywhere, need more.

[Teren_Kanan]

Wondering if there are perhaps any good youtube guides or written guides about combat. Maybe more advanced details about actual flight control.

I'm currently in a fully outfitted DBS, and I just don't feel very good at combat. I'm fully aware of keeping the throttle in the blue for better turns. I change my throttle a lot to match speeds etc, then back into the blue for turning. Fights pretty much turn into infinite loopty loops for me.

Against lower rated opponents, Competent, Novice, harmless and the like, I always win, but I feel like it takes WAY longer than it should, and I feel like I'm only winning due to having better shields and weapons, more so than being more skilled than the NPC's. I bascially play loopty loop with them until I have them in my sights, blast em, and repeat until they die. With harder opponents, I play loopty loop with them until they get to a point where they flip and face me, almost like a game of chicken we go nose to nose, and I never really feel like I'm winning those exchanges, and I have no idea how to avoid massive damage once they are facing me.

I also have no idea what so ever to really be doing once someone is on my butt. I generally revert to the loopty loop game and hope to out turn them. I feel I have bad habbits from games like BF4 where the majority of the skill comes from who's better at spinning in circles. I never know when to use lat or horizontal thrusters, or even how to effectively use them. Do you drop to 0 Throttle? Lower it? Raise it? How often do you use reverse?

A lot of guides I've read always give the same tips like "Keep throttle in the blue" while turning etc, or "get used to using your other thrusters", but they never really explain when/how they should be used.

The combat is getting me really frustrated lately, not so much because of the combat itself, but because I feel like i'm spinning my wheels trying to increase my skill level. Most games I always feel like I'm constantly learning at least, but I'm just lost here.

If it helps I'm playing from the Oculus, with an Xbox controller, will be upgraded to the Flightmaster ED Hotas when it releases.

 

[goemon]

one of the best channels for all things combat: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5QlW7L8XZcVBmRvpScs8kA

and if you want advanced tips - check out the advanced combat videos in that channel

 

[StiTch]

Combat tips are good, but in ED, the best you can learn is what you teach yourself.

Now I know that it sounds like that comment deserves "least helpful comment of the year" award, but it's true. People have different playstyles, and it's better to be told how to learn than told what to do. Much like driving, if you're trying to adjust your technique to the tune of several different tips at once, you'll probably drive worse than someone who just chills and goes with it.

Look at what you are doing, what's going wrong, and adjust. Remember that "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results". Find yourself in turning battles constantly? Don't get into turning battles. Some ships are better for certain playstyles, and if a ship that's exceptional at turning battles tries to lock me in to it, I find a way out-usually involving FA Off, boosting WITH THROTTLE DOWN, using vertical thrusters to sit on their belly. They try to turn sharply and I'm then sat on the inside not needing to move much or adjust much to keep sights on them.

So yeah, find what DOESN'T work for you, then correct it. When you boost, do you overshoot and end up being shot out while you turn to face them? That's okay, EVERYONE I see does it. So be the exception. When I found this was an issue in my FDL, I learned to boost with throttle down. I keep control, get speed just a bit higher than the standard speed, and by putting throttle back up at different points mid boost can get the speed I need but almost never find myself overshooting and making a target of myself. Only boost with throttle up now if I am trying to get somewhere else very fast.

EDIT: And if adjustments to fighting style are too slow for you, look at your loadout. Are you using cargo racks and a couple of tools such as scanners? For a ship to be combat fitted it should really run hull reinforcement packages. And consider what weapons you are using. The day of all ships using two or three pulses and a multicannon or two for the sheer sake of not needing to reload is pretty much getting left in the dust. If you want something to give a go, try 1 C2 beam, 1C2 multicannon and two C1 seeker missile racks. You'll want to set two fire groups so they can fire independently but that loadout I use for a couple of smaller fighters now. You'd be amazed how fast you can strip the weapons off a bigger ship by sub-targetting them and firing a pair of missile racks at them.

EDIT 2: Wing up!

 

[goemon]

for vertical and lateral thrusters - i'm more or less use them constantly on small ships like DBS/DBE/courier.

going backwards is much of a thing if you are in a larger ship, same goes for FAOFF turns.

you didn't mentioned pips management on your "usual tips", which is probably the most important one right now.

but yes - in fights in zero-g in clear space, turning battles and/or jousting are most likely to happen. flying FAOFF in a small ship is not only fun, but can allow you to stay on a targets turing turning battles. using vertical and lateral thrusters can allow you to dodge enemy fire while still firing on your target.

 

[Philip Coutts]

I used to play the training missions a lot. It's a way that you can practice without any financial loss. In particular the first couple of missions are great. You can practice turning with FA off and managing your pips until you feel confident to try it in game.

 

[Teren_Kanan]

one of the best channels for all things combat: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5QlW7L8XZcVBmRvpScs8kA

and if you want advanced tips - check out the advanced combat videos in that channel

Will definitely check this out. Thanks.

for vertical and lateral thrusters - i'm more or less use them constantly on small ships like DBS/DBE/courier.

going backwards is much of a thing if you are in a larger ship, same goes for FAOFF turns.

you didn't mentioned pips management on your "usual tips", which is probably the most important one right now.

but yes - in fights in zero-g in clear space, turning battles and/or jousting are most likely to happen. flying FAOFF in a small ship is not only fun, but can allow you to stay on a targets turing turning battles. using vertical and lateral thrusters can allow you to dodge enemy fire while still firing on your target.

Ve
This is the type of info that' I've been reading everywhere. It tells me very little. WHEN do I use Vert/Lat thrusters? What is happening in combat when you are using them?

Also I don't mind turning/Jousting battles. I just feel like it shouldn't take me 10 minutes to take out a novice NPC.

I do manage my pips just fine I think. I"m used to managing systems as an old school TIE Fighter nerd =p, Just wish I could power my shields from front to back.

 

[kdogg788]

I think you might be better served watching YouTube videos because an explanation is very difficult. I'm not the greatest combat pilot either but if you are in a battle that is that long then something isn't right. If you are turning in the same direction as your enemy and going nowhere try something different to break out of it. Boost, go the other way, dive and come back up, change your speed entirely and go opposite....

-k

 

[Philip Coutts]

Have a look at these videos, the first couple might not be that interesting to you but he does one on FA off turns that explains how to do it and the advantages / disadvantages.

[video=youtube;M6NrpIu2OJE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6NrpIu2OJE&list=PLU396ir67nHg6e4P_EOPwch8gk8E0z7Ex[/video]

 

[D.G.Cerberus]

I'm not the greatest pilot either, and neither have I flown a DBS, however I shall give this a punt (although I learned from the same videos and others by the usual ED suspects)

1) If you are pitching UP, and in the blue zone, you have your "standard" pitch rate
2) Doing the same plus with UP lateral thrusters you can increase your pitch rate. Also try out the (to me) counterintuitive pitch up with DOWN lateral thrusters and experiment
3) Doing the above and throwing engines to reverse (still blue zone) at same time increases pitch rate still further
4) Boost turns with or without combinations of the above also have significant impact

Best advice which I found on this forum: find some non-hostile ships - clean traders around a nav beacon for example, leave your Weps undeployed and practice sticking on their tail using all the above. Start with the wallowing pigs and work your way up to system authority vessels, Anaconda to Viper. Learn the NPC flight profiles and try to maintain situational awareness and advantage at all times.
Develop back up tactical plans to cover a ship you cannot get off your tail (e.g. see below)

PIP management at basic level - when you are being fired on, pips to systems; when you are firing it is pips to Weps and hard manoeuvring is pips to engines. You will find the balance that works for your ship/ Power distributor as to how those priorities are configured - for example when you have the upper hand and can stay on tails, its all pips to weapons with engines; evasive is System and weps etc.

FA off simply removes auto counter thrust when you stop flight control input, so useful for attitude changes whilst keeping momentum in same direction (e.g. flipping to face a pursuing enemy to bring weapons to bear without it turning into a medieval joust)

Lateral Left/ right thrusters are useful for avoidance of slow munitions and can also be used effectively with FA off

Enjoy the learning and fly safe CMDR!

EDIT: Sorry, thought of something else - a lot of the ship reviews on You tube compare e.g. pitch rates. Find an object - Star, station, whatever which is fixed in space and point nose at it. Get a timer and then find out how fast you can 360 pitch with the above methods. THis will give you some perspective on the differences!

 

[Philip Coutts]

Here's another video by Alexander the Grape. Slightly more heavy going but it explains when to use FAoff and when not too. FAoff is not a "win" button, it can be potent in the right hands but if used incorrectly it can also hinder you.

[video=youtube;QEf4ZOur5MU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEf4ZOur5MU[/video]

 

[goemon]

What is happening in combat when you are using them?

for evasive manouvers obviously when you are fired on?

really, it's more about try and error - basically vertical/lateral thrusters allow you to position you in relation to your target more freely/granular. so - where do you want to be, and where do you want to point to - use vertical/Lateral thrusters to help you with that. flying FAOFF some hours helps you to grab that concept - because you can move freely in every direction.

 

[Teren_Kanan]

one of the best channels for all things combat: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5QlW7L8XZcVBmRvpScs8kA

and if you want advanced tips - check out the advanced combat videos in that channel

An update. These videos have really helped me. He gave info on when and how to use lat/vert thrusters and it was very useful. I've definitely increased my skill level as of late. Having a much better time sticking to certain types of opponents.

I'm definitely going to be checking out the FA videos posted here.

I really feel like once I get the thrustmaster hotas set up due out in September, and re-learn new controls, I'll have a much easier time. Controlling thrust on an Xbox controller while shooting etc is kind of annoying. Switching from Forward thrust to Reverse is really annoying to do for instance if I am in combat with another ship. I tried Mouse/Keyboard but did not like the feel of it at all, though it did allow me to use Fixed weapons far easier (cannot use fixed at all reliably with Xbox Controller). I used to use Keyboard/Joystick for previous flight sims, so I know my aim will be much more on point with a Joystick in hand.

I'd buy a Joystick now, but the one coming out in September pre-configured for ED looks too amazing, I just have to wait =p

Thanks again for the Tips !

 

[Alex Brentnall]

I'm a bit very late to this thread.

Just on the "What do you do if someone is behind you?" question. My response is generally either go full reverse if I'm confident in my shields (usually flying large ships), hopefully they overshoot. Most times they break off one way or another once they get too close and I have to use the radar to judge which way they went. If not confident in shields I tend to cut throttle, jam flight assist into off and press boost whilst turning.
Usually gives you an odd sort of flip around and after your boost slows down you'll turn and most times be face to face or partially behind them. After that making a good turn with directionals and occasional use of FA-off will get you behind again if you are in a faster turning ship. If you are in the slower turning ship usually you want to be much better defended so you can tank damage and use flying backwards to keep them in sights long enough to kill them. Or take turrets.