Help me decide if a Vive is right for me.

[karnivor]

Hi guys, i bet you are getting fed up with all the vr "should I" questions, but having read around i`m more confused than ever.

Ok, its gonna be a long one.

firstly me and my outlook.
i'm over retirement age and wear glasses. I play mostly solo or group because its getting hard to compete with the "young uns" in open play.
My main gaming focus is Elite and Arma III but I do like playing other (non VR) FPS and racing games.

My rig is as follows
CPU i7 3770K 3.5ghz o'clocked to 4.2 ghz
16 gig memory
Gainward 1080 golden sample GLH foc'ed to 1746/1885 5255mhz mem clock
Dell 34" curved monitor 3440x1440 60hz max (just so you know what i'm viewing currently).
Thrustmaster Tflight Hotas and Voiceattack.
home built IR wireless head tracking.

My past 3D viewing includes (wait for it) Eyescream and later Nvidia 3D glasses.
I really fancy the idea of the HTC Vive for its controllers and its spacial aspect, although i somehow dont see myself diving under a table in Arma, as it would take me 5 minutes to get back up.

These are my concerns. The more I read, the more frightened I become. I may be wrong butit seems really messy to set up and get right, and even so, the results sound (quality wise) rather mediocre. please tell me I am wrong. I dont want to spend half an hour setting the headset up every time i jump on to elite or Arma.

Secondly, I cannot find any info on using a VR headset outside of a VR game. What about all the old 3D compatible games I have like Unreal or Trackmania and others. Can I use the headset as a 3D headset for such games or 3D movies?

Are we likely to see any large improvements to graphics operation as the drivers mature?

I havnt completely ruled out the Oculus but my "fancy" is for a Vive.

Finally, and before any suggests it, I live in deepest Cornwall, so the prospect of getting my hands on a demo is remote at the very least, without travelling nearly 300 miles.

Any advice would be truly appreciated.

Thanks
Cptn Crunch.

 

[dementia]

If your plan is to use the Vive with ED then you'll be disappointed as, at the moment, ED is very much substandard on the Vive compared to the Oculus (both DK2 and CV1). I can say that as I own all three. That being said, the Vive is on par with other games/experiences I've tried. Just not ED.

 

[Spam]

Rift CV1 owner here.

For purely ED then the CV1 nudges it at the moment.
For everything else the Vive nudges it as it's the full monty room scale.

When the Oculus Touch releases later this year it'll level the playing field again.

Both will have extremely similar visuals when setup.

Basically, you wont go wrong with either solution. They are both very good VR headsets.

Be prepared to drop overall visual fidelity, especially coming from the 4k screen you are on but the immersion or presence gained far outweighs the loss. And it will only improve with subsequent releases.

As for running other non VR games, there are 3rd part softwares out there like vorpx that can hack VR into games, or VR Desktop which can present a 2D game inside a VR Windows environment.

Make the jump, it's a game changer :-]

 

[TorTorden_VR]

I have the vive but not tried the cv1.

First up.
I dont have any issues wearing glasses in my vive although it definitely is an issue when gettig the thing on and off.
I have glasses with a relative wide fov and frameless design.
I have been wearing glasses for nearly thirty years and having a light frame is just sensible.
They are nor bi-focal. Im just saying that since both my sister and her husband uses bi-focals and that doesnt work since there is no reading level focus, it is all distance.

Setting up the vive is NOT hard. If you own a toolbox you are over qualified. Heck if you have ever held a screwdriver or played with basic blocks in kindergarden you are well prepared.

It took me longer to clear out the crap from the corners, just to have somewhere to stand when installing the lighthouses than the actual job itself.

The software however feels a bit beta though. And the device itself is far from elegant the entire thing feel a bit like a beta device in that regard.

I and many others are having some slight tracking issues. When stationary the hmd wobbles and one of my controllers has a bit of drift or just looses tracking all together.
The hmd also looses tracking every now and then for a second, about once or twice in an hour usually at a bad time.

No matter what I have tried it is the same. Rebooting the device seem to help a little but nothing I can really nail down.

Whst I am recommending to people is saying. Yes VR lives up to the hype. Sort of.
Unless you are die hard fan I cannot say go put €900 on your Mastercard it is certainly a nerd product still.
And give it a month maybe two. There will be lots of early adopters that won't be satisfied mostly from the lack of ease of use more than resolution etc and they will be offloading their HMD's for a song.

As for crawling around, that is only with a very few games. I haven't played more than maybe two that I have had to even crouch with.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

purely for elite i would take the rift over the vive BUT your glasses may be an issue, mine do not fit inside the rift,

but if you are happy to get some smallish frames then you will be fine.

PS the poster above says about tracking issues in the vive... well, in the interests of fairness, i have to hit the F12 from time to time to centre the view in the rift as well, as sometimes the tracking gets confused and gets out of wack a bit.

the second to second tracking in the rift is bullet proof however and entirely convincing.

 

[requ1em]

I bought a Vive but have now returned it and bought a rfit instead. Vive does really feel like a beta, I had so many issues on getting controller to sync etc. I am sure they will fix this over time however.

The real problem for me was I play Elite a lot and the resolution with the Vive is just not good enough even with all the tweeks that have been published over the last few weeks. It would seem the Rift is better for games like Elite - take a look at the excellent review by UKRifter on youtube, this really made me move away from Vive in the end.

As I said I am sure Vive will get better. Also Oculus will release their controller at some point. So this should level the playing field across both devices. But for me, Vive just was not good enough.

 

[TorTorden_VR]

purely for elite i would take the rift over the vive BUT your glasses may be an issue, mine do not fit inside the rift,

but if you are happy to get some smallish frames then you will be fine.

PS the poster above says about tracking issues in the vive... well, in the interests of fairness, i have to hit the F12 from time to time to centre the view in the rift as well, as sometimes the tracking gets confused and gets out of wack a bit.

the second to second tracking in the rift is bullet proof however and entirely convincing.

Hitting f12 is not what I am talking about. It's not quite as bad as this but this is what i mean.
https://m.reddit.com/r/Vive/comments/4g7ym6/htc_vive_tracking_wobble_jittering_thread/
This is not an ED issue it's like this regardless. Just the steamvr loading area wobbles.

So far it seem to stabilise a bit when i pick it up oddly enough.

It mostly likely is a not so perfect device cause I have pretty much done everything outside of replacing mother board or psu.

There is also an issue with steamvr where if there is a hotas or other joystick connected the signals somewhat get crossed and the vive controllers cease to function until the stick/wheel etc is unplugged.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Hitting f12 is not what I am talking about. It's not quite as bad as this but this is what i mean.
https://m.reddit.com/r/Vive/comments/4g7ym6/htc_vive_tracking_wobble_jittering_thread/
This is not an ED issue it's like this regardless. Just the steamvr loading area wobbles.

So far it seem to stabilise a bit when i pick it up oddly enough.

It mostly likely is a not so perfect device cause I have pretty much done everything outside of replacing mother board or psu.

There is also an issue with steamvr where if there is a hotas or other joystick connected the signals somewhat get crossed and the vive controllers cease to function until the stick/wheel etc is unplugged.

oooo that is horrible! i hope you get it sorted either by new hardware/software or recalibration/ positioning of your sensors.

I could not put up with that even if only 1/4 as bad as that.

 

[Aio]

I have the vive with very similar PC hardware as you except I have overclocked my 3770 to 4.5ghz and I have an overclocked 980 ti (1393mhz core, 8ghz mem).

Setting up the vive is very easy. Just put the 2 lighthouses on a shelf or similar and run the setup, then you are done. For me the tracking works perfectly and the gfx is fluid even with very high subsampling (2.0). I have spent several hours in the vive (looking for those *** yttrium without any judder. The presence is very good with the vive FOV.

I'm using glasses as you and I find the vive very comfortable. I never felt any strain or discomfort of the headset except when the cords has been twisted when putting on the headset but that is really not an issue. I also like the headphone jack so I can use high quality over the ear headphones.

The software has been beta quality. I had issues with power down the light houses at the end of a session and had to pull the power manually. This is solved in the last update.

I can recommend the vive. Your hardware should be able to deliver excellent image quality.

 

[TorTorden_VR]

oooo that is horrible! i hope you get it sorted either by new hardware/software or recalibration/ positioning of your sensors.

I could not put up with that even if only 1/4 as bad as that.

Yeah I say mine is basically 1/3 to a quarter of what is displayed in the video.

But here is a development for me...

About two hours ago the UPS guy popped by.
With a CV1...

 

[Brandon31]

I have the vive but not tried the cv1.

First up.
I dont have any issues wearing glasses in my vive although it definitely is an issue when gettig the thing on and off.
I have glasses with a relative wide fov and frameless design.
I have been wearing glasses for nearly thirty years and having a light frame is just sensible.
They are nor bi-focal. Im just saying that since both my sister and her husband uses bi-focals and that doesnt work since there is no reading level focus, it is all distance.

Setting up the vive is NOT hard. If you own a toolbox you are over qualified. Heck if you have ever held a screwdriver or played with basic blocks in kindergarden you are well prepared.

It took me longer to clear out the crap from the corners, just to have somewhere to stand when installing the lighthouses than the actual job itself.

The software however feels a bit beta though. And the device itself is far from elegant the entire thing feel a bit like a beta device in that regard.

I and many others are having some slight tracking issues. When stationary the hmd wobbles and one of my controllers has a bit of drift or just looses tracking all together.
The hmd also looses tracking every now and then for a second, about once or twice in an hour usually at a bad time.

No matter what I have tried it is the same. Rebooting the device seem to help a little but nothing I can really nail down.

Whst I am recommending to people is saying. Yes VR lives up to the hype. Sort of.
Unless you are die hard fan I cannot say go put €900 on your Mastercard it is certainly a nerd product still.
And give it a month maybe two. There will be lots of early adopters that won't be satisfied mostly from the lack of ease of use more than resolution etc and they will be offloading their HMD's for a song.

As for crawling around, that is only with a very few games. I haven't played more than maybe two that I have had to even crouch with.

Thanks very much for an unbiased and factual mini review, it was very interesting from a glasses wearer perspective to hear your comments. +1 rep

 

[TorTorden_VR]

Thanks very much for an unbiased and factual mini review, it was very interesting from a glasses wearer perspective to hear your comments. +1 rep

The tracking problems is a doozy, but really I do not think it's the norm.

It's just a hard one to get sorted since this could be so many things, like mother board compatibility, dodgy power output (if it was you should be having other problems as well), bad lighthouse placement, a bad lighthouse and the list just goes on.

but most likely and most often I would bet on a dodgy sensor on the device itself.
This is an issue HTC support should handle, once they get their ducks sorted I guess.

Here's a few shots of the two with my spec's inside them, giving you my frame of reference, granted the CV1 is barely out of the box at this point
Pardon the clutter.

http://imgur.com/a/pmQPt

Might not display quite right in the shots, but the vive is a bit more roomier, I really can't say I feel any discomfort using the glasses with it.
The Rift is a touch tighter, but suprisingly this is only a real issue when taking it on and off, the Rift however is easier to stuff directly on and then pull the strap down over the back with the vive this becomes difficult to do because the cables are running over the top.

Once either is on, neither gives any issue with my glasses, they don't pinch me on the stems or anything like that.

The performance difference is also pretty ridiculous between the two at least in Elite.
My setup is as following:
i5 4670K, 16GB RAM, 980TI

The vive I was running supersampling at 2.0 in steamvr and downsampling in game, just to get things somewhat legible.
I could barely run VR high, with this, it was generally ok but outside of supercruising I would get 45 FPS, so whenever doing anything remotely fun it was happening at 45fps and SteamVR interpolation between frames, this is most likely a ED, SteamVR software hickup so should be solve able down the line.
(the VR high graphic settings are more closely related to medium than anything else)

The rift on the other hand, I was sitting on a small moon running Ultra settings looking at my clipper from the SRV at 90 FPS, maybe it dropped sometimes down to 75 FPS but that was as low I could see, I have no problem reading text.

It so happens that I got the vive from a local shop with a 45 day no questions asked return policy and I just might have to avail myself at that, that is mostly cost wise and the wobble factor.
It's a bit too much money too just keep around, waiting for SteamVR to get out of beta (it's seriously not done ATM)

 

[shadragon]

If you are short sighted, you don't need glasses at all in an HMD.

If you want an objective video on the current state of the Rift, check this video out. It was posted four days ago.

Watch as many vids as you can from opposing viewpoints and then make up your mind what you want to do.

[video=youtube;55q9W6stwP0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55q9W6stwP0[/video]

 

[Captain N]

Firstly, roomscale is a game-changer. If a game doesn't use roomscale I don't even consider it full VR. Even cockpit games like ED where it makes sense for them to be sitting down experiences suffer somewhat from the fact that the motion of the ships/vehicles etc. doesn't really feel real due to lack of G-forces and other relevant haptics, which makes them feel somewhat immaterial and lacking compared to roomscale VR. Don't get me wrong, ED is great in VR, and clearly superior to monitor, but as far as pure VR immersion goes it's kind of only halfway there.

In roomscale VR I feel I'm fully there. In most non-roomscale VR games I feel like I'm a floating head, or that there is a game being projected around me but I'm not really "there".

Then again, there is not a huge amount of fully realised VR games out there and even fewer that use roomscale. Most games will give you maybe 2-3 hours of gameplay before you've explored all the content. New games do keep popping up though.

The setup only needs to be done once, after the first time you can just put the headset on and go.

Some roomscale games on the Vive (like Battle Dome and Hover Junkers) encourage kneeling down and getting back up quickly and in general can be very physical, but that entirely depends on the game. I wasn't aware there was Vive support for ArmA?

It's "possible" to use a VR headset for (some) ordinary 3D games using an injector software like VorpX. I can't, however, recommend it. VorpX is way overpriced for what it does and the results tend to be really bad. The only time I felt legitimate nausea in VR was when I was trying to get GTA5 to work with VorpX. Even the few games where Vorpx works "alright" aren't anywhere near as good as games designed for VR and I'd rather play them on a regular monitor.

If you are short sighted, you don't need glasses at all in an HMD.

This is not true.

 

[Hell Razor5543]

Realistically only YOU can decide if VR is for you, and (because of your OP) whether the HTC Vive meets your needs. If you are in the UK PC World are demonstrating the HTC Vive at (currently) three stores. Here is the link;

http://www.pcworld.co.uk/gbuk/vive-vr-682-commercial.html

 

[karnivor]

WOW, thanks ppl,
what an amazing set of responses.

Sooo, i'm getting some flavours developing now. Firstly, I hear what is being said about wearing glasses. Ive spotted on here that you can get lenses made to prescription, which appeals to me both from convenience and quality. I'm gonna stick my neck out here and say that getting rid of the fresnel lenses may well be the cure to the so called god rays. Fresnels and Pixels sound like a recipe for god rays and moire patterning. I currently use varifocals so whatever happens i will need some kind of new lenses/glasses.

so far, two responders have given up their Vives for an Oculus. That says a lot to me.

recentering the display is something i'm already used to with Trackir and i have a voice command set up for it in voiceattack, so its not a problem either.

I assume the Oculus will also run old world 2d stereoscopic games with the appropriate software add on (with or without head tracking).

I think i'm slowly leaning more towards the oculus. Can you still get out of your seat in ED with an Oculus or are you "strapped in" and if not, will the controllers upgrade also provide room-scale? Pressing my nose up against the canopy and staring into space sounds like fun.

Ye gods, this is a tuffy for me.
thanks for all the comments.

 

[Soda Popinski]

I have both Rift CV1 and Vive. I definitely prefer the Rift for long play periods in Elite. I found I don't need to tighten the straps so much, so it just sits on my head like a hat. No "Oculus Face."

I do wear glasses (thick rimmed), and don't find them all that comfortable in the Rift, so I typically wear contacts if I'm going to play. I just ordered a new adapter on VR Cover's new Kickstarter. Alternatively, there's VR Lens Lab that lets you put in prescription lenses into adapters that fit over the Rift's lenses.

 

[UniMag]

WOW, thanks ppl,
what an amazing set of responses.

Sooo, i'm getting some flavours developing now. Firstly, I hear what is being said about wearing glasses. Ive spotted on here that you can get lenses made to prescription, which appeals to me both from convenience and quality. I'm gonna stick my neck out here and say that getting rid of the fresnel lenses may well be the cure to the so called god rays. Fresnels and Pixels sound like a recipe for god rays and moire patterning. I currently use varifocals so whatever happens i will need some kind of new lenses/glasses.

so far, two responders have given up their Vives for an Oculus. That says a lot to me.

recentering the display is something i'm already used to with Trackir and i have a voice command set up for it in voiceattack, so its not a problem either.

I assume the Oculus will also run old world 2d stereoscopic games with the appropriate software add on (with or without head tracking).

I think i'm slowly leaning more towards the oculus. Can you still get out of your seat in ED with an Oculus or are you "strapped in" and if not, will the controllers upgrade also provide room-scale? Pressing my nose up against the canopy and staring into space sounds like fun.

Ye gods, this is a tuffy for me.
thanks for all the comments.

Yes you can definitely get up and walk around your cockpit - furniture permitting of course.

I too thought long and hard about which HMD to get and everything I needed from one pointed me more towards the rift and have no regrets whatsoever.

Room scale doesn't interest me in the slightest especially as it sounds a bit gimmecky and something to show off to friends on the odd occasion. I work very hard (own business) and all I wanna do is sit l, chill out and close off to the outside world. Also the placement of the Vive sensors would look really messy in our lounge without a serious amount of work being done.

Sorry I can't comment on glasses as luckily I'm gifted with 20/20 vision. Maybe that will change with age?

Good luck deciding.

 

[Captain N]

Yeah that's what room scale sounds like. A marketing buzzword and a gimmick.

Until you try it.

 

[dogbite]

If you are short sighted, you don't need glasses at all in an HMD.

If you want an objective video on the current state of the Rift, check this video out. It was posted four days ago.

Watch as many vids as you can from opposing viewpoints and then make up your mind what you want to do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55q9W6stwP0

First off, this video may be 4 days old but the points made are the same ones flogged to death for months and generally moot. He likes the Rift ergonomics, quality, earphones and even prefers the Touch controllers then falls back to the same old roomscale crap without comparing the Rift on this at all. Objectivity -don't see any in this vid. Your point about watching many video reviews is valid. Guys like UKRifter who owns both Hmds and some of the other VRSpies as well offer great reviews and comparisons of both headsets.
https://youtu.be/agrc2OmAEYg


The Op is 70 and is unlikely to bounce around in room scale to any serious degree. There is no reason he can't get out of the chair in the Rift if he wants to. There are plenty of vids demonstrating roonscale (although smaller area) on the Rift. The scale will increase with the 2nd sensor that comes with Touch.

The lack of controllers at this time is over emphasized as most of us use Hotas and racing wheels and such. heck, I even use the Xbox controller on occasion (although very little). I will likely buy touch controllers when games compel me, but right now, I find hands in the game kinda under utilized unless you like making virtual burgers and arcade style shooters. Hell, with Leap Motion you can emulate Vive controllers in Vive games on the rift, although not as precisely.

The Op is in an ED forum so I would recommend the Rift as it is the better solution for this game at present.

All other games being (somewhat) equal performance wise the big caveat for the Op could be glasses. If you have a fairly large head, glasses can be a hassle in the Rift and too a lesser degree the Vive. VRCover now has a lens adapter .for both HMDs that you can purchase with or without the prescription lenses ( you can buy the adapter and have you optometrist make the lenses if you want, or you can just go contact lenses if you can wear them.

You also got it backwards. If you are farsighted you don't need glasses in VR hmds. If you are nearsighted (shortsighted is usually reserved for people who don't plan ahead) then you need glasses.