Horizons Moving ever closer to an era of specialised ships??

[Greenmantle]

With the Dev's announcement that the surface scanner will return the materials to be found on a planet, carrying a DSS will now become a necessity for many people not actively engaged in exploration. And that's another internal slot gone...

Given that swapping in and out of modules is not ideal, the pressure is on to buy and rig out specialised ships for different tasks. This is especially the case for those of us who don't like or can't afford the biggest ships.

At the moment I have:
AspEx - rigged for mining
AspEx - rigged for trading/delivery missions
FAS - rigged for combat/space salvage
DBS - rigged for surface salvage/intrusion missions
Cobra MkIII - rigged for light combat/anti-piracy

And I can see myself needing a DBX for short-range exploration/material gathering before long...

In general, I like this need to specialise, but it does become a problem in that you can really only take missions from one place, selecting the ship you need for the task. The ability to pay for a courier to deliver one of your ships to your current location would be a big help...

 

[Jarrek2002]

With the Dev's announcement that the surface scanner will return the materials to be found on a planet, carrying a DSS will now become a necessity for many people not actively engaged in exploration. And that's another internal slot gone...

Given that swapping in and out of modules is not ideal, the pressure is on to buy and rig out specialised ships for different tasks. This is especially the case for those of us who don't like or can't afford the biggest ships.

At the moment I have:
AspEx - rigged for mining
AspEx - rigged for trading/delivery missions
FAS - rigged for combat/space salvage
DBS - rigged for surface salvage/intrusion missions
Cobra MkIII - rigged for light combat/anti-piracy

And I can see myself needing a DBX for short-range exploration/material gathering before long...

In general, I like this need to specialise, but it does become a problem in that you can really only take missions from one place, selecting the ship you need for the task. The ability to pay for a courier to deliver one of your ships to your current location would be a big help...

Absolutely, I find myself doing the same. "Multi-Role" ships, such as the Cobra, don't cut it like they once did. Sure you can outfit several cobras into a variety of roles, but one-ship-for-all appears to be a thing of the past. Even combat-focused ships now want to be fitted with Collector Limpets and a small Cargo Hold, in order to quickly pick up mats dropped by destroyed vessels! Let's face it, manual collection is for peons, and we're Commanders damnit!

I love how the Engineer's Update now makes these decisions so tough! Honestly, it used to be that a single cobra mk3 could do everything and you didn't need to advance to bigger ships.

Either we really narrow our path of what we do in the game and then just use 1 ship, or we end up with a fleet of specialized ships and do a little of everything! I think we sort of need to do everything, in order to collect all the materials/data for upgrades (although this may be replaceable by missions only)? Watching Kornelius Briedis' videos, he seems to prefer getting his materials from missions only, and I wonder if it can all be done this way?

In any case, having a fleet of ships of course pins us to working out of only 1 location most of the time, which goes against what David Braeben has mentioned he wants us to do!

I know that it's been suggested to the developers of some kind of ship delivery service, and if I recall during the weekly pre-2.1 Q&A videos, the developers are working on something to this effect, but I might be remembering wrong here.

Does anyone else know?

 

[Pville_Piper]

"Multi-Role" ships, such as the Cobra, don't cut it like they once did.

My opinion is that the reason they don't cut it anymore is the ever increasing need to carry more modules. Ships like the DBS and even the DBX were limited before Horizons but with the need for the SRV bay put a real crimp in a lot of smaller, limited ships.

Now with 2.1 you need to be very aware of potential combat. HRPs, chaff, SCB and other things now have to be considered in your load out if you want to survive an interdiction by an Elite with rails. It can be very hard to balance a ship out for all your needs. I personally have found that my FAS is now my multi-role ship and each time I take a different mission I first must review and change my load out to survive the mission. I will no longer fly a transport (or and Asp X) with a ton of cargo space... Too vulnerable for my tastes.

That being said, there is nothing I hate more than having to park my ASP Scout for most missions because it just won't hold up to chain interdictions or any fight in a less than high security system while carrying an SRV and reasonable cargo space along with the best shields. For me it takes the joy out of this game to a large extent. I've had to adapt just to survive... But adapting doesn't make the game better. At some point I will likely adapt myself to another game.

 

[Quiquag]

I actually really like the idea of more specialized ships. Yes, it means you can't take every mission on the board, but that also makes sense. I look forward to an age where every ship you meet is different.

 

[eqinox]

Would be great to have DSS in a utility mount, or sell better scanners e.g. ADS+DSS combos. The ships are specialized enough without needing too much module fitting..

 

[Jarrek2002]

My opinion is that the reason they don't cut it anymore is the ever increasing need to carry more modules. Ships like the DBS and even the DBX were limited before Horizons but with the need for the SRV bay put a real crimp in a lot of smaller, limited ships.

Yes exactly, and with the NPCs being so tough now, we have to make real sacrifices on each loadout, as you mentioned.

I'm sorry you're disheartened by it. I find it exciting, the choices to make now, but I also have never owned the larger ships or advanced my gameplay all that far before starting over again, so I'm in a different pool than many other players (I'm like that in all games; I've been playing Skyrim since it first launched, and only ever actually finished the main quest once. Have all the DLC, never finished any of it. Insanely love it! [wacky]).

Elite is just so broad, I'm considering starting over again, picking a brand new home system, and flying nothing but the Eagle and sticking to a single loadout. I know you don't need to clear your save to do this, but I like keeping things fresh and relatively simple, and then seeing how the game unfolds from a new start. It's role-play, I suppose, limiting yourself within the game and trying to develop a character's story.

I'm hoping that Kornelius' suggestion on one of his videos comes to life: Make Solo Play 'easy' mode, and Open Play 'hard' mode. Tune all the NPC's accordingly. This way, a moderately fitted ship should be perfectly survivable in Solo, while it would not last in Open. This would cater to those who prefer games to make us feel powerful with moderate skill and to only be challenged occasionally, and would cater to those who are very skillful to continue being challenged by both NPCs and other players. I think something to this effect needs to be done.

 

[Nerwan]

I think experienced players already use entirely specialized ships... I have around 15 or so.

 

[Moonlord]

This would be easily solved by giving us ability to modify module spaces. Buy module splitting service or just special modules and divide 2 slot module into two one-slotters and stuff couple of your scanners in those. Split another, four slot module and put fuel scoop into other half and srv into another half and so on. Some restrictions could be applied for game balances sake, restricting number of splits or such, but I wouldn't think those as necessary, as available power is good restriction against stuffing your ship with everything.

 

[goemon]

yes and no.

on the one hand, as most players being in this game longer time (and not resetting my save), i have a fleet of specialised ships (trader, miner, explorer, cz ship...).

on the other hand, i find myself more often flying around in 2.1. in only one of those ships, doing everything in it. at the moment it is surprisingly enough a DBE. sometimes courier, cobra or python. why? because modifications make a "specialised ship like the DBE more versatile (speed of a DBS without modifications for exampel). increased jumprange and speed make it very fast to jump over to get the moduls i need.

also. copy-paste builds don't really work with engineered ships, and as of know i'm restricted to mod any ship due to material requirements.

and it is part of my fun, to use the wrong ship for the right job.

anyway, i'm really hoping for ship transfer, too.

 

[racer1]

I've found mods make re-fitting ships more difficult and have had to buy a second asp.

One for med range mission running and getting about and a second for exploration/Buckyballing as a fair few of my mods are not helpful for those other activities.

But I find I use more ships now. I used to use the asp 90% of the time only needed FDL or FAS for specialised combat.

I now use my python for general mission running and my anaconda for long range missions - both of those ships were hanger ornaments in 2.0.

 

[Rankaze]

I've pretty much always used specialized ships. Early on, those specializations were things like "armed light trader", "fighter", "explorer". Later I added some really, really niche specialties, like "bounty voucher taxi" (I even had a Cobra named Voucher Taxi once. Then came Haulin' A*, so specialized that she was built for one particular race.

Engineers has actually allowed me to hybridize a bit. My Courier Joyeuse is optimized for racing, but her combination of jump range, low mass, and raw speed make her an excellent fast transport and a capable explorer, all by swapping a few internal bays. Once I get the drive tuned, my FdL Excalibur , nominally a combat ship, should be plenty capable of taking on the armed light trader role by trading out some combat internals a little cargo capacity... with her Grade 5 FSD mod she'll make 20 ly in lighter trim, which is sufficient for that role.

Ships and roles always evolve. I find the most important thing is to fly what you enjoy. It doesn't have to be optimal if it's fun... sometimes squeezing unexpected performance out of an unconventional approach is where I find that fun.

 

[Cmdr Ultra]

We might get lucky and they add another module that's on every ship like the Planetary Landing module.

 

[Devari]

With the Dev's announcement that the surface scanner will return the materials to be found on a planet, carrying a DSS will now become a necessity for many people not actively engaged in exploration. And that's another internal slot gone...

Given that swapping in and out of modules is not ideal, the pressure is on to buy and rig out specialised ships for different tasks. This is especially the case for those of us who don't like or can't afford the biggest ships.

To some extent, yes, there is a bit of a need to "specialize" your ship if you don't want to swap modules out as certain tasks (SRV mat gathering, mining, etc) are necessary to gather specific Engineering materials and it's helpful to have a specialized ship for those tasks. At the same time, you don't need as quite many different ship loadouts as you did pre-2.1 as the engineering mods means that certain ships can actually become "multirole" again with FSD boosts, overcharged power plants, etc.

At the moment I have:
AspEx - rigged for mining
AspEx - rigged for trading/delivery missions
FAS - rigged for combat/space salvage
DBS - rigged for surface salvage/intrusion missions
Cobra MkIII - rigged for light combat/anti-piracy

And I can see myself needing a DBX for short-range exploration/material gathering before long...

I think that this many ships has enough overlap that you really don't need 5 ships to do those tasks. The combat/anti-piracy/space salvage is basically the same role. Same with trading/delivery/surface salvage. Mining is a specific build that it's sort of it's own role. So you can really do all of that with maybe 3 ships.

In general, I like this need to specialise, but it does become a problem in that you can really only take missions from one place, selecting the ship you need for the task. The ability to pay for a courier to deliver one of your ships to your current location would be a big help...

I think that the mid-size ships now have a nice niche again as true "multi-role" ships. My main ship is a Python and it can really do everything except exploration. It's great at combat, carries 192 tons, fast enough to do salvage or surface work, and so on. The only other ship I really "need" is my Asp setup for exploration. I also have a Vulture and Keelback for fun but they don't do anything that I can't already do with my Python. My Type 9 is collecting dust for various reasons but if dedicated trading becomes viable again I might take it out. So although I have 5 ships I only really need 2 to do all the tasks I regularly do (Python for combat/trading/surface and Asp for exploration). If I did mining that would become 3 ships which again isn't really that many.

 

[[VR] Frank_G]

Currently i have 4 ships, all stored in one location.

Asp Explorer - fitted for deep space exploration, uses highly modified equipment for extra range.
Viper Mk. IV - fitted for medium range exploration missions, material gathering and combat. Already has a DSS installed
Imperial Courier - fitted for fast delivery, blockade running and infiltration.
Imperial Eagle - fitted with thrusters! Pure fun build for racing, canyon runs and fancy flying.

I plan to buy a higher class vessel soon. Dont yet know if it will be a Python, Orca, Federal Dropship or Fer De Lance. I wait what the next update will bring and decide then.

The way ships are handled and can be outfitted is great. The need to constantly refit your multi role vessel or keep a small fleet of specialized craft is very cool. A game that forces you to decide, instead of giving you everything is far more fun to play.

 

[babelfisch]

I know that many people will disagree, but the module system is something that I don't like about ED. Some stuff should be integrated in other modules. Advanced sensors with integrated scanners, cargo racks with transfer limpets, etc. All ships should be capable of doing everything with the limitation that combat ships are not good at trading and trading ships are not good at combat, multipurpose ships can do both.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Absolutely, I find myself doing the same. "Multi-Role" ships, such as the Cobra, don't cut it like they once did. Sure you can outfit several cobras into a variety of roles, but one-ship-for-all appears to be a thing of the past. Even combat-focused ships now want to be fitted with Collector Limpets and a small Cargo Hold, in order to quickly pick up mats dropped by destroyed vessels! Let's face it, manual collection is for peons, and we're Commanders damnit!

I love how the Engineer's Update now makes these decisions so tough! Honestly, it used to be that a single cobra mk3 could do everything and you didn't need to advance to bigger ships.

Either we really narrow our path of what we do in the game and then just use 1 ship, or we end up with a fleet of specialized ships and do a little of everything! I think we sort of need to do everything, in order to collect all the materials/data for upgrades (although this may be replaceable by missions only)? Watching Kornelius Briedis' videos, he seems to prefer getting his materials from missions only, and I wonder if it can all be done this way?

In any case, having a fleet of ships of course pins us to working out of only 1 location most of the time, which goes against what David Braeben has mentioned he wants us to do!

I know that it's been suggested to the developers of some kind of ship delivery service, and if I recall during the weekly pre-2.1 Q&A videos, the developers are working on something to this effect, but I might be remembering wrong here.

Does anyone else know?

I thought the idea of a Multirole ships is that they are capable of doing most things in the game if outfitted properly. So a Cobra outfitted for combat is pretty decent, you can then outfit it for a rare run, and then the same mining etc. I never thought it could do everything at the same time, even before 2.1

 

[Micha]

I like the fact that decisions have to be made, but at the moment there are too many modules/combos and no way to build a truly multi-role ship. Currently "multi-role" mainly means a ship which can be outfitted for one of a variety of roles, requiring module swaps to change roles, and not a ship which can be outfitted for multiple roles simultaneously.

While there should never be a single ship which is excellent at everything, that's not the point of a multi-role ship. Multi-role should be acceptable at most things, giving the greatest flexibility, but not excelling at anything. Conversely a specialised build (combat, trading, exploring, mining) should always be MUCH better than a multi-role at their designated speciality while being poorer (or even incapable) of other roles.

Improvements can certainly be made to the ship building and outfitting system to regain more flexibility. Whether its by being able to split Internal Compartments, being able to fit certain modules into a variety of slots (eg, fit Discovery Scanners into Internal Compartments, Hardpoints, or Utility Mounts), or other mechanisms. Engineers could be leveraged for this by not just boosting certain stats for certain modules, but by making larger-scale modifications to your basic ships hull and equipment.

Basically we need chop-shops.

 

[Dimensions]

I think they should sell variants of some ships with have low level functions like scanners built in for a higher cost, thereby retaining the original number of internals. I think this is more an issue on combat ships than multi-role ships which usually already have a high number of internals.

 

[bkrownd]

I will no longer fly a transport (or and Asp X) with a ton of cargo space... Too vulnerable for my tastes.

I don't know where you get the idea that an Asp-X is "vulnerable". I can put 120 tons in my cargo Asp and have NEVER lost an Asp in an interdiction.

Don't care about "materials". Wish they'd disappear since their primary purpose seems to be wasting 20% of my collector limpets' time.

 

[M00ka]

Just a couple of points on the discussion so far:

In regard to the concept of a true multi-role ship, I am against it. True you can fit out a ship to perform all the tasks to a good level, but it should be able to be beaten in specific role by a ship solely designed to be excellent in that role. If FD go the route of having a particular ship that is excellent in every role, all that will happen is everyone will end up flying it and there goes half the mystic and fun of the game.

Also mentioned in this thread is the problem when a Commander has to swap out modules to change roles. I have done that in the past to complete a mission, only to find out that my hard to get module has 'disappeared' from sale and I spent the next 'x' amount of time flying around trying to find one again. I would much prefer if you could store your excess modules you want to retain but not suitable to your current objective (same as you store your other ships) at a station and then only pay a small fee to swap them around. And as an added bonus, the ability to load them up in your cargo bay as cargo if you decide to relocate home bases.