Keep Jeremy Corbyn, an insurance that labour will never get in power
Right on CMDR!
General / Off-Topic UK only, labour leadership
- Thread starter TheAntitheist Crusader
- Start date
Right on CMDR!
Burying bad news perhaps?
Depressing?
Let me add to your misery.
On Wednesday afternoon we are going to get a new Prime Minister, and a new Conservative party leader. That means that the Tories, in less than three weeks, smash the country to pieces, create a constitutional crisis, cause international uproar, wipe 10% off the value of our currency, and all stab each other senseless in the media when the ensuing riot occurs.
BUT they still manage to get their crap together and get back to being a party. I reiterate - in less than three weeks.
In that time, Labour have virtually self destructed, talked, argued, faffed around, talked, talked, maybe said that someone might challenge, talked, faffed, and are STILL just faffing around, without anyone knowing who will be leader or even what the party stands for at the moment, with each and every day doing further damage to Labours credibility and making the country-wrecking Tories look competant by comparison.
Not only is Corbyns Labour look radically left-wing to many, it also looks like a doddering group of disorganized hippies led by a dinosaur who escaped from the miners strike.
Labour would have had a better chance had they formed ranks behind Corbyn. But no, same backstabbing circus as the Tories had, but like you said the Tories have their leadership contest settled while Labour is in ever worse disarray. I think this will get a whole lot worse before it gets better. I suspect May will bulldoze the country out of the EU and do her damnest to stop the Scots from getting out.
We could really do with an alternative to our current political system - it obviously doesn't work very well and we're all sitting here getting shafted by the ruling elite.
I like jc mostly because I can see how badly the media and establishment want him gone!
I like jc mostly because I can see how badly the media and establishment want him gone!
Since we entered the EEC in the 70s, there was a hard rump of voters and MPs who wanted nothing to do with it. They revolted with amusing regularity, and eventually got so annoying to the pro-EU powers that be that they escaped - they set up shop in the Fabian Society, sent their infiltration squad into Labour, cast out any semblance of the socialism that was instrumental in it's founding, and turned it into Blue Labour. Then they put Maggie's son Tony in the top spot to lead us into PFI, sell-offs, wars to maintain US hegemony, boom-bust economics, all the same old stuff that they loved to do in their old home.
Now the EU war is over (supposedly), they can all go back home - but not without doing a bit of Bullingdon-style ultraviolence to their rented digs first. They've left a bunch of visigoths behind to hold the party hostage, make it look as bad as possible to the general public, and ensure that it is thoroughly smashed up before they are forced to escape, so the great unwashed are left without a political home to rally around for a few years. That way they can continue playing "Cash in the Attic" with the UK's dwindling assets and beating the poor and vulnerable for kicks for a while unchallenged, until they have to organise some other play to fool the saps in a few years.
Now the EU war is over (supposedly), they can all go back home - but not without doing a bit of Bullingdon-style ultraviolence to their rented digs first. They've left a bunch of visigoths behind to hold the party hostage, make it look as bad as possible to the general public, and ensure that it is thoroughly smashed up before they are forced to escape, so the great unwashed are left without a political home to rally around for a few years. That way they can continue playing "Cash in the Attic" with the UK's dwindling assets and beating the poor and vulnerable for kicks for a while unchallenged, until they have to organise some other play to fool the saps in a few years.
I doubt it. The man doesn't speak outside his base and does nothing, nothing at all, to try and woo swinging voters. Even with Chilcot, the Labour party would probably manage a better result with a certain war criminal at the helm.
Corbyns message of compassion for the poor is great. It will never win an election. Never. When you're not poor, not destitute, you don't vote to help the people who are even if you want to see them helped. That's a fact. I've been there, been poor, been claiming benefits, and now I'm not. And even though I know it's wrong I need to think about my family and future.
I am a Keynesian socialist who understands demand side economics and knows that a farcical fantasy Reaganomics really is, and I can't vote for Corbyn because he just doesn't have a coherent message of how is going to do things beyond "Tories are bad! Austerity! Down with this sort of thing!"
We could really do with an alternative to our current political system - it obviously doesn't work very well and we're all sitting here getting shafted by the ruling elite.
I like jc mostly because I can see how badly the media and establishment want him gone!
Plato actually rejected Athenian democracy. He said that democracies followed the citizens impulses rather than the common good, that they were anarchic societies without internal unity, and were generally run by fools.
Yes, the Lords were debating for two days plus, about the possibility of a second vote. Possibly after terms were set out, to see if the UK agreed with them.
Even with all that said if you vote for the Tories instead of Corbyn's Labour you are actively supporting what you claim to dislike. It would be like Bernie supporters who say they'll vote for Trump over Hillary.
I wouldn't vote Tory unless someone like Clarke, Hesaltine, or Patten was in charge.
As it is now I'd vote green or lib dem or abstain. Supporting Labour under Corbyn is to prolong this mess.
Reminds me of Labour under Michael Foot. Convinced that pure socialist policies would win them an election. Didn't seem to work that well.
As much as i won't vote for Corbyn's labour, i won't vote for the Tories, it will have to be Lib Dem or abstain for me unless labour splits or gets rid of Corbyn.
Surely you vote for the national policy platform of the party concerned, not the leader? "I voted Labour because I quite like that Corbyn chap"; I know that kind of thing happens, but it's the worst of personality politics. What are the party policies that you'd be voting for?
Labour's problem at the moment is that it doesn't know. It's imploding in a ideological conflict between classical socialism, "New Labour"-style capitalism and the liberal left who really should have joined the Lib Dems but Labour was trendier.
If the Conservatives wanted to hammer Labour, they'd call a general election immediately and set out an aggressively pro-business, low tax manifesto. The SNP would probably end up being the official opposition as they're the only party which seems to have a clue (if not a plan).
Well the leader of a party will, to a large extent, define that party. Labour under Blair was a very different entity to Labour under Corbyn for example. A policy platform is important, but the style of leadership and ability to govern an administration is just as important to me.
The most well intentioned and caring leader can be just as toxic as a ruthless sociopath if that leader is horribly incompetent.
Labour is beset with problems. The unions seem to want to hang on to the 1970s, that's a big problem. The doddering old gentleman in charge at the moment, he's a problem. Tony Blair is still making headlines, that's a massive problem. But the overarching issue is a lack of leadership. A charismatic leader who can reach across and appeal to the swinging voter is all you really need to get elected.
If you look at Blairs speech from a few years back (I posted it in this thread) you can see how to do it. The guy talked up the economy, talked up education, talked about a method to protect public safety. He didn't go on a rant or bash anyone. He just gave a vision of a better future. Even if a pack of lies it's way more effective than merely saying how wrong the other side is.
The thing is, with Osborne dropping corporation tax to the lower than low, they don't really need to talk up the pro-business angle. In fact with Corbyn running Labour the business vote would vote Tory if they had to crawl over broken glass to reach the polling booth.
Theresa May has already talked about putting more workers in boardrooms and have an inclusive Britain etc. She's moving outside her natural base to attract voters from the other side - something Corbyn hasn't even attempted in 11 months. So before she is even party leader she is ahead of Corbyn on how to win a general election.
With the damage done to Labour expect a general election pretty quickly.
My contempt for Labour deepened yesterday after only 2 of the 25 Welsh Labour MPs bothered to turn up for a bill hearing on devolving control of our country's water supply to our own government. Shows how little they care for our country's future and I don't see any of the potential leaders of this rabble indicating that they would change their attitude.
The PM can no longer go to the Queen and ask for parliament to be dissolved, it requires a vote in the House of Commons.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2011/14/section/2/enacted
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With a Conservative majority a vote will pass. With Labour all over the place and eager for a fresh start, even if it means burning Corbyn to the ground and salting the earth he stands on, expect them to vote to dissolve Parliament as well. And the Lib Dems, who really want a general election right now and get the message out that they're all about halting brexit, they'd be falling over themselves to dissolve Parliament.
I reckon we're going to get an election quickly, unless the Tory focus groups see there is a real hunger in the country to reverse Brexit (remainers right now carry a national majority) and decide to get that over with first.
I saw that on social media. Labour are a disgrace. Good to see other parts of the UK come to realise it. Up here, we've been onto them for a wee while now.
Indeed, you've sent them packing!
Scotland is an inspiration and it is great to see SNP and Plaid Cymru supporting each other on the parliamentary votes about devolution, whilst Labour abstain despite their promises to support it.