Elite Babysitter...

[Siggi]

A very interesting thread, as my finger hovers over the Premium Beta purchase button.

I figured the MP game would be an 'Anything Goes' free-form sandbox. Anyone can do anything they like to anyone else, tuff y, suck it up kind of thing.

Will it not be possible for a lone player to vanish into the depths of 400 billion stars and risk hostile action only when in the vicinity of the place he goes to to sell whatever stuff he's mined/scored? Will he not be able to eventually survive and buy tech that hides him from player-killers? I'm really not getting the apparent need/desire for out-of-game artificial constraints. Not that I see a problem, if there will really and actually be 400 billion stars, with having a percentage of them roped off with such constraints.

I don't want to be robbed of my gold ore by pirates (and maybe have my ship and avatar blown up just because my attacker's a sociopathic teenage dweeb) but I want it to be possible, otherwise the entire ED experience becomes a rather hollow and sterile process of just punching keys by rote for an entirely predictable outcome. I want to survive by virtue of my own skill, not because I'm protected by rule-set constraints.

Hope that made sense.

Oh...will this game not have an SP mode?

 

[Thorn Black]

Two completely separate galaxies divided by an "iron curtain" with separate events, histories and developments within the galaxy along with of course separate economies.

One side with all the safety nets and security of the hiding mechanics and grouping mechanisms to render an mmo basically a corpg or solo online experience.

The other side runs a "all" and "ironman" group only without any "ignore", "group" and any other features that we all know will offer cloaking to some degree for an advantage. This will be more to a true mmo experience.

Sounds fair to me and would get my money no questions asked. If the only option is the grouping setup as I understand it now it will not result in my purchase of the product. [/B]
[/I]

This wont be nessesary if :
[*] You cannot switch betwen groups freely (aka from solo or group to all and iron man)
[*] You can move freely betwen two separate (solo and group or all and ironman)

As I see it players want safety and solo playing experience suits them well, go ahead nobody is forcing You to play MP. Like other people saying its only fair if You cannot freely switch betwen those two different play styles. If switching will be allowed there will be lots of unfair complaints from both sides. Including commanders who farm credits and then move to MP to fight only, removing the whole "dangerous" part completly from the game.

We will be having, as far as I was assured, 3 characters minimum. So we will be able to play in all modes we choose rly, ncluding even those bad and bloodthristy PVPers type of characters.

Not sure about credit transfer on acount (to Your other characters from the one rich and prosperous). That should also be imposible from two separate playstyles.

 

[JeffRyan]

I don't want to be robbed of my gold ore by pirates (and maybe have my ship and avatar blown up just because my attacker's a sociopathic teenage dweeb) but I want it to be possible, otherwise the entire ED experience becomes a rather hollow and sterile process of just punching keys by rote for an entirely predictable outcome. I want to survive by virtue of my own skill, not because I'm protected by rule-set constraints.

Hope that made sense.

Oh...will this game not have an SP mode?

It does, as someone who won't be taking a PvP career myself (Trader/Explorer) I don't want to be beaten, killed, taken by pirates, or whatever either. But I want the risk of it. And I want to play with other people, make friends, enemies etc. This is sorta the crux of why the layers bother me. Particularly the hiding PCs. I'm glad I'm the one who's championing this thread because to some extent it nullifies the accusations (not entirely) that only PvPers feel this way and this is /their/ topic. Which is an easy way to dismiss the issue and make it seem like it's only a select few with a very specific objective.

And yes, the game has TWO singleplayer modes, online and offline.

 

[Thorn Black]

And yes, the game has TWO singleplayer modes, online and offline.

Yes but the solo online has only feeds including market changes and all impacts from other players.
They still do not see You and You do not see them, right?

 

[Mephane]

Now we are discussing separate galaxy simulations and forbidding to switch between Solo and All? I sincerely hope FD ignore this thread altogether, I'd rather have the transponder solution than the stuff that has been proposed here lately.

 

[JeffRyan]

Yes but the solo online has only feeds including market changes and all impacts from other players.
They still do not see You and You do not see them, right?

Exactly.

 

[Thorn Black]

Exactly.

So in other words Theyre safe and PVPers are safe from trigger happy to report for griefing PC ?

Now we are discussing separate galaxy simulations and forbidding to switch between Solo and All? I sincerely hope FD ignore this thread altogether, I'd rather have the transponder solution than the stuff that has been proposed here lately.

Whats the problem here ? All solo and those preffer to hide with their groups will still recieve all events and market changes and everything else happening server wide exept there wont be unnessesary stress for both parties.

I see win win here.

 

[Siggi]

I'm going to sound like a complete newb (because I am ) but can't a player simply hyper-jump (or whatever it's called) to escape an attack? I'm guessing not, otherwise none of this stuff would be an issue. But can't he at least sneak around trouble?

 

[Thorn Black]

I'm going to sound like a complete newb (because I am ) but can't a player simply hyper-jump (or whatever it's called) to escape an attack? I'm guessing not, otherwise none of this stuff would be an issue. But can't he at least sneak around trouble?

From what I observed on videos You can. For example go to faster charging up "Cruise" and speed up and then lock on another system and activate hyperjump and Youre safe.

Unless (and thats good for bounty hunters) You can track Hyper Jumps for limited amount of time. Not entirelly sure how its gonna work i think its not implemented yet.

 

[JeffRyan]

I'm going to sound like a complete newb (because I am ) but can't a player simply hyper-jump (or whatever it's called) to escape an attack? I'm guessing not, otherwise none of this stuff would be an issue. But can't he at least sneak around trouble?

I bravely run away all the time... even managed it a few times too.

 

[Phaedra]

Now we are discussing separate galaxy simulations and forbidding to switch between Solo and All? I sincerely hope FD ignore this thread altogether, I'd rather have the transponder solution than the stuff that has been proposed here lately.

I agree. We are now seemed to a wandered into a completely different game that ignores the discussions recorded in the DDA and the decisions by FD on the basis of those. It is no better and probably worse than the demands by the more risk adverse members of the DDF for additional protection in the all player group. I really don't understand why FD can't be left alone by both sides to deliver the game described in the DDA which can then be tested. If problems arise during the test than will be the time to discuss change.

 

[tooterfish]

I'm going to sound like a complete newb (because I am ) but can't a player simply hyper-jump (or whatever it's called) to escape an attack? I'm guessing not, otherwise none of this stuff would be an issue. But can't he at least sneak around trouble?

The mechanics of interdiction aren't fully fleshed out in game yet. But yes, ******ing off is supposed to be an option.

I suspect trying to fight everything that appears in front of you will turn out to be rookie mistake no. 1 in this game.

Flying around in a glorified bathtub just because the cargo-hold has [bigger numbers!] will probably be no. 2.

Edit: Ah, foiled by the filter again! I'll leave you to guess what that rude word is. There's quite a few that'll fit.

 

[Lobstris]

Which neatly brings me to... So it's not "out of character" to think "right, I'm going to turn off my ID transponder and fly like an NPC flies in the hope I'm I'm ignored by other PCs"? Seems the essence of out of character to me.

And that is the crux of the matter.

To me the artificial distinction of NPC vs. PC forces 'out-of-character meta-gaming'. To you the behaviour of Players emulating NPCs is 'out-of-character meta-gaming'. We're not going to agree here.

 

[tooterfish]

I personally don't have an issue with the transponder.

If in one of my incarnations I'm playing a pirate, whether my mark is an NPC or not isn't really going to affect how I act towards them. Same if I'm a bounty hunter.

I'm not sure why it's such a big deal to be honest.

 

[Lobstris]

In simple terms... I don't want Johnny "no pvp" to make millions of credits in complete safety from other players, and then be able to use those credits to outfit a deadly ship and use it against me in my ship that i have struggled to upgrade whilst being subject to the risks of pvp.

Short version... You wanna play alone? Fine... you can... But you have to STAY ALONE. You cant make a fortune in safety then decide to change your mind.

And this I completely agree with. If you're going to play multiplayer stick to multiplayer-all. If you're going to go single player/single player on-line. Characters should be locked to the initial mode. The only exception being ironman dropping to multiplayer-all on death.

 

[Thorn Black]

And this I completely agree with. If you're going to play multiplayer stick to multiplayer-all. If you're going to go single player/single player on-line. Characters should be locked to the initial mode. The only exception being ironman dropping to multiplayer-all on death.

Exacly !

 

[Phaedra]

I personally don't have an issue with the transponder.

If in one of my incarnations I'm playing a pirate, whether my mark is an NPC or not isn't really going to affect how I act towards them. Same if I'm a bounty hunter.

I'm not sure why it's such a big deal to be honest.

I think the big thing is retaining the additional punishments for attacking a player whilst at the same time removing the ability to tell whether a ship is being flown by a player. I'm sure that any rational pirate would take into account these additional penalties in making a decision on whether a particular prize is a worthwhile target. I'd have no problem not knowing who players were if there were no additional penalties for attacking them. Similarly, I'd have no problem with the penalties if were possible after a scan to tell the ship was being flown by a player. Its the combination of both that could provide a good opportunity for entrapment when you consider the nature of the penalties. Being forced into the all player group, having rights of retribution and being unable to "ignore" the person with the rights seems a bit draconian for what might honestly be an unavoidable mistake.

 

[Stachel]

The mechanics of interdiction aren't fully fleshed out in game yet. But yes, ******ing off is supposed to be an option.

I suspect trying to fight everything that appears in front of you will turn out to be rookie mistake no. 1 in this game.

Flying around in a glorified bathtub just because the cargo-hold has [bigger numbers!] will probably be no. 2.

Edit: Ah, foiled by the filter again! I'll leave you to guess what that rude word is. There's quite a few that'll fit.

Spoiler

[Redacted]

 

[Saxxon]

Now we are discussing separate galaxy simulations and forbidding to switch between Solo and All? I sincerely hope FD ignore this thread altogether, I'd rather have the transponder solution than the stuff that has been proposed here lately.

I can only think of one reason to not like this proposal and that is exactly why this is a wise choice.

 

[Commandr Sam]

I am all for all apsects of PVP as I think it will be the main way of creating tension on those trade runs.

However I am also all for the transponder. I think not knowing if another ship is an AI or a PC adds to the tension. In my mind they will all be players out to get my cargo...