General / Off-Topic Gun Nut America

[Cydramech]

Seems like the prison population in the states still not big enough.

What do you think will happen when every single person becomes a criminal? As more laws are written, more laws get broken. More a law gets broken, the harder any enforcement of it becomes. Eventually, it becomes a logistical nightmare to enforce the law even for a totalitarian state.

There is a little problem with this. Law don't give a damn, about your sorry exuses, and morality one of the most common sorry excuse what the notorious law breakers use as a shield to hide behind it. (and this is why they don't care!) The other most pathetic common excuse law breakers using? TO question the morality of the law.

And that's why the police, and guardmans don't give a damn about the wounded soul and pride of law breaker, and neither to their pathetic excuses. It's not in their job. Their job is to maintain order, and safety, for everyone! And if you can break law, by using the morality card?

You have a problem with it? Change it if you can! If not? Tough luck!

Warning! Exciplit.

Spoiler

http://img.ifcdn.com/images/205924d34b50e4ae044174b529726987290d2154_1.jpg

You really believe the quote has at all anything to do with regards to caring about whether the law or its enforcers care? No, what it is about is the fact that only lawbreakers have any freedom whatsoever. Merely by virtue of being able to break the law the Individual not only has far more freedom but a better grasp on morality than anyone who depends on the law to decide what they can or cannot do. Or as Henry David Thoreau once said, "Disobedience is the true foundation of liberty. The obedient must be slaves."

3D printing materiel's can't take the pressure required for firearms (literally), the example in your link is a non-rifled short barrel .22 single shot pistol. Which would be very low power, very low accuracy, incredibly slow rate of fire and very likely to explode.

A home made shotgun or an off the shelf air rifle would be much scarier.

For now. But once again, this is only the beginning of 3D-printing. Do you realize how technology takes an exponential, nonlinear advancement?

Yep! Martial arts requires a lifetime of training, and with it in most cases also comes the discipline. But guns, when you can simply buy in the net?

Yes, Martial Arts requires far more training. But a career criminal also has a lifetime experience of applying physical force and has (almost) no qualms about getting what he wants by any means necessary, whereas the law-abiding citizen (once again) remains restricted by the law. It doesn't matter how much training you have when you're worrying about your every move, whether or not it's acceptable.

No it won't. It's easy to go around carrying a blade. Fashioning a club or a mace is even easier. People still don't carry them because it is illegal. All you need is harsh sentencing for people caught going about armed, and using such weapons to result in severe punishment. 3d printing a firearm that is worth anything is still far in the future, and you still need bullets.

Harsh sentencing means nothing when it becomes a logistical nightmare to enforce (as history has proven with the prohibition against alcohol and drugs individually, among other things). 'sides, law-abiding citizens don't have the heart for harsh sentencing.

 

[Minonian]

Britain’s Gun-Control Folly

Good riddance.

 

[Adept]

It's a natural right for people to defend their life, liberty and property from others who want to violate it by force.

And hence we have nation states and rule of law. We have pooled our resources and skills to creating and maintaining infrastructure that makes it possible to live in comfort in the heat of the tropics or the cold of the arctic circle. We have created police forces and legal systems that allow us to live in peace and security, and to which we have given the mandate to defend our lives and give us justice when we are wronged.

The cult of defending your personal freedom and liberty with a firearm is a Libertarian fantasy. That of the rugged frontiersman who takes care of himself and doesn't need anything from anybody. It has never been true, but there is something romantic about it that appeals to young men. Some of those young men never grow out of it either, and remain fans of Ayn Rand and her ilk till the end of their days.

 

[Stigbob]

For now. But once again, this is only the beginning of 3D-printing. Do you realize how technology takes an exponential, nonlinear advancement?

It's like a battlefield laser it's possible but it's insanely expensive a pain to make, a pain to maintain and a lot less reliable and effective than whats already easily available. Begging the obvious question why bother, unless you just want to show it off as a curio.

 

[Monk]

That of the rugged frontiersman who takes care of himself and doesn't need anything from anybody. It has never been true, but there is something romantic about it that appeals to young men.

Then you don't know the river and mountain folk of the Midwest. There is a need for people who live and visit bear country to protect themselves and hunt. It is quite romantic. However, it is a tiny slither of our society as a whole. People in urban areas have little need for weapons as they have civil services to keep safety, peace and order. These lives are diametrically opposed, which is why states and municipalities need the power to regulate according to their own needs and not be hampered by some Federal blowhards who think they know what is best for the entire country.

 

[lysan]

No it won't. It's easy to go around carrying a blade. Fashioning a club or a mace is even easier. People still don't carry them because it is illegal. All you need is harsh sentencing for people caught going about armed, and using such weapons to result in severe punishment. 3d printing a firearm that is worth anything is still far in the future, and you still need bullets.

A lot of people in Finland carry knifes, does that make them criminals? nope, the problem is that the "law" says that the blade cannot exceed a length of X mm.
However you can still kill with it, it just require some knowledge and training.

if I would harm someone in a deadly way, all I would need is an icepick, its is very deadly and can take a person out in one single strike, and its not even illegal.
or use a slingshot, it can do as much harm as a pistol.

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Then you don't know the river and mountain folk of the Midwest. There is a need for people who live and visit bear country to protect themselves and hunt. It is quite romantic. However, it is a tiny slither of our society as a whole. People in urban areas have little need for weapons as they have civil services to keep safety, peace and order. These lives are diametrically opposed, which is why states and municipalities need the power to regulate according to their own needs and not be hampered by some Federal blowhards who think they know what is best for the entire country.

I wonder how much the defenders of gun control actually get out of their comfy zone, some places where I travel you can get shot just by sitting in your car listing to the radio.
There are police alright but they are more interested in if they can get some "coffee" money from you.

 

[Minonian]

Then you don't know the river and mountain folk of the Midwest. There is a need for people who live and visit bear country to protect themselves and hunt. It is quite romantic. However, it is a tiny slither of our society as a whole. People in urban areas have little need for weapons as they have civil services to keep safety, peace and order. These lives are diametrically opposed, which is why states and municipalities need the power to regulate according to their own needs and not be hampered by some Federal blowhards who think they know what is best for the entire country.

Yeah, they are need weapons, but the urban gangs? You want to deal with this problem the first step is to take away their weapons, in one way, or another. Yeah they can get them from the black market. You know what? While they can buy it from web shops, W/O ID not to mention papers? The least of your problems is black market... So much about it.

 

[Monk]

I wonder how much the defenders of gun control actually get out of their comfy zone, some places where I travel you can get shot just by sitting in your car listing to the radio.
There are police alright but they are more interested in if they can get some "coffee" money from you.

OMG...where the heck is that?

I've lived in so called "murdervilles" Chicago and St. Louis. I've been to every neighborhood in each. I even live in a city neighborhood where gunshots and muggings aren't that uncommon to hear about. I never hear of people just being shot for no reason. It is usually between gangs and the occasional person being mugged. The last time I heard of someone just being shot for being in their car was along the highways in supposedly safe (read: white) neighborhoods.

This kinda junk is always over-stated, however. There is quite a bit of density so even if the rate didn't increase there would be more incidences. I play the odds. My peers from the "safe" burbs are at more bodily risk than me, merely because they have to drive on the highway. And you can't shoot at the highway and get anything out of it

Guns you keep in the city are more likely to be stolen and end up on the black market than they end up being useful for protection. That is why mine are locked at my folks house in the suburbs.

 

[lysan]

OMG...where the heck is that?

I've lived in so called "murdervilles" Chicago and St. Louis. I've been to every neighborhood in each. I even live in a city neighborhood where gunshots and muggings aren't that uncommon to hear about. I never hear of people just being shot for no reason. It is usually between gangs and the occasional person being mugged. The last time I heard of someone just being shot for being in their car was along the highways in supposedly safe (read: white) neighborhoods.

This kinda junk is always over-stated, however. There is quite a bit of density so even if the rate didn't increase there would be more incidences. I play the odds. My peers from the "safe" burbs are at more bodily risk than me, merely because they have to drive on the highway. And you can't shoot at the highway and get anything out of it

Guns you keep in the city are more likely to be stolen and end up on the black market than they end up being useful for protection. That is why mine are locked at my folks house in the suburbs.

Its very common here, when you are stuck in the traffic lines, motorcycles drive by and knock on the windows flashing a gun, if you don't give them anything you can get a bullet as thank you!

South america however I love it here, even if its not "safe" I also like the US as my family lives there. However even if the so called safety is higher I would not give up my right to carry a gun.
Then again, my aunty lives in Manchester and there are areas where you don't go alone or in my case without a weapon (yes I have a legal license).

 

[Monk]

Its very common here, when you are stuck in the traffic lines, motorcycles drive by and knock on the windows flashing a gun, if you don't give them anything you can get a bullet as thank you!

South america however I love it here, even if its not "safe" I also like the US as my family lives there. However even if the so called safety is higher I would not give up my right to carry a gun.
Then again, my aunty lives in Manchester and there are areas where you don't go alone or in my case without a weapon (yes I have a legal license).

Right...in a place where even the petty thieves are armed. Having a gun would certainly be good, imo.

Curious to know deeper information on South American crime...looks like I have something to do this evening

 

[lysan]

Right...in a place where even the petty thieves are armed. Having a gun would certainly be good, imo.

Curious to know deeper information on South American crime...looks like I have something to do this evening

Some condominos are very safe, armed guards, high walls around, road check and so on, but outside, forget it, its lawless land basically.

 

[Cydramech]

And hence we have nation states and rule of law. We have pooled our resources and skills to creating and maintaining infrastructure that makes it possible to live in comfort in the heat of the tropics or the cold of the arctic circle. We have created police forces and legal systems that allow us to live in peace and security, and to which we have given the mandate to defend our lives and give us justice when we are wronged.

There is no nation-state or rule of law that isn't taken on faith, whether it's the follower or enforcer.

The cult of defending your personal freedom and liberty with a firearm is a Libertarian fantasy.

The cult of depending on a central authority to protect you or grant you freedoms is a minarchist utopia. Five thousand years of human experience involving government, and what have we to show for it? Just more boogeyman fairy tales about how someone somewhere must be committing evil, because reasons.

That of the rugged frontiersman who takes care of himself and doesn't need anything from anybody.

There's always in politics the parallel of wolves and sheep, yet the wolf is far more sociable than the sheep. There is nothing sociable about sheep, they just follow their shepherd without any additional input. Those following the law are perfectly suited as sheep, not because merely for blind acceptance but because they lack any real social skills, as proven by their dependence on the law to enforce things for them.

It has never been true, but there is something romantic about it that appeals to young men. Some of those young men never grow out of it either, and remain fans of Ayn Rand and her ilk till the end of their days.

As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Objectivism or Ayn Rand approaches 1.

(P.S. Ayn Rand hated libertarianism and anarchism.)

 

[Minonian]

Blind obidience is stupid but there is flexibility, and kicking up the laws and say it "morally good".

Wolf more sociable as sheep? Yeah... Until he gets hungry.

 

[verminstar]

typos

Having a gun and actually knowing how to use it are two entirely different things. Just cos ye can own a gun, doesn't always mean ye should...complicated argument fer me personally. Honestly not sure how I feel about it either way although fer self defense, it might surprise ye how little ye actually need.

The bigger and more relevant question could be this...could ye pull the trigger and make a killshot while looking them in the eye? Yer answer will make it easier to judge whether or not ye should be allowed to own a gun.

Although yer yanks, that about as useful a chocolate toothbrush...bit like thinking about closing the stable door after the entire herd of horses have bolted and been hunted down by rabid gangs of M60 toting weekend warriors ^^

 

[Cydramech]

Blind obidience is stupid but there is flexibility, and kicking up the laws and say it "morally good".

Flexibility, moderation, and any similar term used in political discussion entirely depends on the person using them, and far more often signal a lack of being able to stand by the logical conclusions and principles of one's views.

Wolf more sociable as sheep? Yeah... Until he gets hungry.

Wolves are pretty good at remembering friend from foe. Sheep only know their shepherd.

 

[Minonian]

Ah!

We got a misloshoper right there!

 

[Cydramech]

Having a gun and actually knowing how to use it are two entirely different things. Just cos ye can own a gun, doesn't always mean ye should...complicated argument fer me personally. Honestly not sure how I feel about it either way although fer self defense, it might surprise ye how little ye actually need.

The bigger and more relevant question could be this...could ye pull the trigger and make a killshot while looking them in the eye? Yer answer will make it easier to judge whether or not ye should be allowed to own a gun.

Although yer yanks, that about as useful a chocolate toothbrush...bit like thinking about closing the stable door after the entire herd of horses have bolted and been hunted down by rabid gangs of M60 toting rambo wannabes ^^

What's the point of asking such a question since there's such a general assumption that everyone on the internet overestimates their own willpower?

Now I'm not going to answer your question, but I'll let you ponder it by telling you a bit about myself: I'm an ex-gang member, I've been charged (not convicted however) with attempted murder, and I'm on both the domestic terrorist watch and no-fly lists.

 

[Minonian]

My answer is short.

If you are part of any kind of violence organization, like police army, mercenary, (body)guard, and such, not to mention the crime bands?
Than the first question you need to ask before you hop in any of these? Am i ready to take, and cause wounds, kill and if it's necessary die?

If not? Than it's not your place. It's simple as that.

 

[verminstar]

Am I supposed to be impressed by this? I'm sortof an ex gang member too although that means something entirely different here in northern ireland and yer sheet so far looks decent enough...

But ponder on this...a hard man doesn't walk around telling everyone he's hard because he doesn't have to. Do that here and ppl just laugh at ye ^^

 

[Cydramech]

My answer is short.

If you are part of any kind of violence organization, like police army, mercenary, (body)guard, and such, not to mention the crime bands?
Than the first question you need to ask before you hop in any of these? Am i ready to take, and cause wounds, kill and if it's necessary die?

If not? Than it's not your place. It's simple as that.

That we agree on. In any modern police or military force, or the sort thereof, every single enforcer is there because he has made the choice. If they did not know what they were signing up for then that's their own fault, but they still willingly forfeited the right to be anything more than mere numbers in a game of chess. Though mercenaries deserve credit as they don't hide or lie about their intentions (everyone joins up for some kind of profit, monetary or otherwise).

Am I supposed to be impressed by this? I'm sortof an ex gang member too although that means something entirely different here in northern ireland and yer sheet so far looks decent enough...

But ponder on this...a hard man doesn't walk around telling everyone he's hard because he doesn't have to. Do that here and ppl just laugh at ye ^^

As I questioned, "What's the point of asking such a question since there's such a general assumption that everyone on the internet overestimates their own willpower?"