General / Off-Topic Harvard Study Shows Gun Control Doesn't Save Lives

So I dont know where you Pulled this Strange Study.
But I somehow Doubt its from Harvard.

Because this is Harvards Stance from their Website.

""

Homicide

1. Where there are more guns there is more homicide (literature review)

Our review of the academic literature found that a broad array of evidence indicates that gun availability is a risk factor for homicide, both in the United States and across high-income countries. Case-control studies, ecological time-series and cross-sectional studies indicate that in homes, cities, states and regions in the U.S., where there are more guns, both men and women are at a higher risk for homicide, particularly firearm homicide.
""


I take my Guess and say either this entire Study even existing is a Hoax from some Republican (ehrm Donald Trump ehrm)
Or has been Interpreted incredibly Perverted by whoever wanted to use the name Harvard there.....

It's classic disinformation. The OP either doesn't care and pushes it regardless or is genuinely unable to tell the difference. Malevolent or incompetent, take your pick.

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Because its truth, I'm sorry if this upset you, but life can be taken with a slingshot, knife just as easy. You do know that right? What we talk about is if we can make society safer.
Its an illusion, any lose of life is a failure. Sitting in a relative safe part of the world and dictate how other people should live their lives, without knowing what it takes is a squared box.

You live in a relative safe part, I don't, my view is from that angle not from where you are, just remember that. I'm always armed wherever I go, and that so far has kept me alive.

Just as easy? I've done a decade of martial arts and have been into military history all my life. This is such rank that I don't know how you can possibly justify it in your head. Guns changed everything, and immediately became the deciding factor in warfare.

I'm sorry but as long as you keep spouting something so stupid as to say that it's as easy to kill people with a slingshot or a knife you are so far beyond sanity that I have nothing to say to you and will ignore you from now on. Back down from this insanity, admit you are spouting nonsense and we can talk.

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In Europe we didn't need guns, although with recent atrocities happening in France I'm starting to think they might be a good idea. In the US there are far too many criminals with guns and places like Detroit you would have to be a complete idiot not to carry.

If you're in a crowd of people enjoying a festival and somebody comes at you with a truck, how the hell is the situation any better if you have a pistol somewhere on your person? Handguns give a dangerous illusion of safety, nothing more. They are a tool for killing people or threatening them with, not some kind of protective armour or force field.
 
Actually you know what? I've finally had enough of Cosmo's and relentless low-brow disinformation. It's time to make the forum a better place and edit him out.
 
An awful lot of people seem to just like arguing, when instead you could use some facts. Sunleader picked out the same I did checking murder rates, so lets have a look at the headline article...

Blog post summarising the debunking of the "Harvard" study, with links to further articles from Harvard researchers: https://www.thetrace.org/2015/10/harvard-study-false-claims-armed-with-reason/
Snopes article on the same: http://www.snopes.com/harvard-flaw-review/

Essentially, it's "bad science" - actually an activist piece.

Sorry Cosmo, but the facts used to support your position are, at best, incorrect.
 
I had a look at the study, what I can't fathom is how they came up with a murder rate of 9.01 for Luxembourg in 2002....I keep finding 0.9 online. I'm wondering if they've used Lithuania instead! (It had 9.1 for 2002 and is closest alphabetically to Luxembourg...). Am I missing something?
 
The gun-ban in France didn't stop the Islamic truck terrorist in Nice from having guns and grenades on July 14th. If responsible adults were free to own weapons for self-defense then many casualties would've been prevented as the terrorist driver would be killed much sooner.

Do libertarians favor gun control?

QUESTION: I am unclear on the libertarian stand on gun control and crime. Should there be gun control in a libertarian society? And if so, how much?

MY SHORT ANSWER: Firearms, like fists, can be used for offense or defense. Libertarians would not advocate cutting off a person’s access to firearms any more than they would advocate cutting off a person’s hands to prevent a brawl.

Most people who advocate gun control do so because they believe it lowers the crime rate. In fact, just the opposite is true. Violent crime ( , robbery, and homicide) decrease dramatically when states pass laws that permit peaceful citizens to carry concealed weapons.

One famous example: in 1966 and 1967 Orlando, Florida police responded to a epidemic with a highly-publicized program to train 2,500 women in the use of firearms. Orlando became the only city with a population over 100,000 which showed a decrease in crime. , aggravated assault, and burglary were reduced by 90%, 25%, and 24% respectively — without a single woman ever firing a shot in self-defense.

Criminals are looking for an easy mark and avoid those who might be armed. Anyone who doubts this might wish to put a sign on their front lawn saying “This house is a gun-free zone” to experience the consequences firsthand.

Gun control is actually “victim disarmament.” It exposes the weakest among us — women, children, and the elderly — to greater risk of attack. It denies us the ability to defend ourselves against those who would harm us.

Since the courts have ruled that the police have no obligation to protect an individual citizen from attack, we have no legal recourse if they fail to do so.

Acting in self-defense, armed citizens kill more criminals each year than police do, yet shoot only one-tenth as many innocent people by mistake. Clearly, armed citizens act as responsibly (if not more so) than trained law enforcers.

Libertarians believe that everyone has the right to self-defense. America’s founders did too. Libertarians strongly support the Second Amendment. Libertarians do not support the victim-disarmament laws collectively known as “gun control.”

For more details, including references for the examples cited above, see Chapter 16 of my book, Healing Our World in an Age of Aggression, available from the Advocates (2003 edition). The 1993 edition can be read online for free at mywebsite.


Tactical_Facepalm.jpg



Mate no Offense but I am putting you on Ignore.
Your either absolutely incomprehensible beyond saving.
Or your an Propaganda Bot. The Brexit Topic as well. All your doing is Posting Radical Propaganda which is not even close to being Lies but for most Part is In Fact Lies and Treachery. Your not reasoning nor Thinking apparently. All your doing is Repeating Rubbish from some Third Rate Right Wing Radical Webblog.
And Sorry but its just not worth the time.

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It's classic disinformation. The OP either doesn't care and pushes it regardless or is genuinely unable to tell the difference. Malevolent or incompetent, take your pick.

I dont think you need to make a Pick on that. As by now I assume both to be the Right Choice.





Edit:

And just to make sure that he cant Say that I am the one Lying.
His last Post was Complete and Utter Rubbish as well.

This is the Crime Statistics for Florida by Year
http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/flcrime.htm

And for a Fact between 1967 and 1970 the Crime Rate did NOT Decrease at all. It did Increase in pretty much all Fields.....
So I dont know what sort of Law was Passed there. Or if there was even such a Law (Somehow I have a feeling the entire thing is made up...) But for a Fact. Whatever happened there did not Decrease the Crime Rates....

And Pls note that in 1968 and 1969 Florida despite only Ranking Place 9 in Population. Ranked Place 3 in Murder Rates.....
Awesome Archievement.
Now my First Guess was. Burglaries went down because People Shot each other instead of Stealing.
But actually not even Burglaries went down lol.....
 
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The gun-ban in France didn't stop the Islamic truck terrorist in Nice from having guns and grenades on July 14th. If responsible adults were free to own weapons for self-defense then many casualties would've been prevented as the terrorist driver would be killed much sooner.

Have you seen the pictures of the truck?

It's basically one gigantic bullethole.

I hardly doubt that a bunch of panicking civilians with guns would have helped stopping anything. Instead they might be shot by the police in the chaos or might shoot some other armed civilians because they're not able to distinguish them from the attackers.

A mass panic turns into a mass shootout. What a great idea ...
 
Harvard study shows gun control doesn't save Lives
August 28, 2013

Harvard Journal of Law and Public Policy has just released a study of the relative effects of stringent gun laws. They found that a country like Luxenbourg, which bans all guns has a murder rate that is 9 times higher than Germany, where there are 30,000 guns per 100,000 people. They also cited a study by the U.S.National Academy of Sciences, which studied 253 journal articles, 99 books, 43 government publications, and it failed to find one gun control initiative that worked.

In fact, in many cases it found that violence is very often lower, where guns are more readily available. The report points to a myth that guns are more easily obtained in the United States than in Europe. That is factually incorrect.

Austria has the lowest murder rate of any industrialized country, with .8 murders per 100,000 people, yet they have 17,000 guns per 100,000 people. Norway is second with .81 murders and 36,000 guns. Germany is third with .93 murders and 36,000 guns. The United states has a murder rate of 10.1 murders per 100,00 people. But Luxembourg, which does not allow gun ownership at all has a rating of 9.01.

The same pattern appears when comparisons of violence to gun ownership are done within nations. Indeed, "data on firearms ownership by constabulary area in England." like data from the United States show a "negative correlation" that is "where firearms are most dense, violent crime is lower, and where firearms are least dense, the violent crime rate is the highest."

Another longstanding myth is that Europe's relatively low murder rate is because of their gun control laws. The truth is, their rates were low even before gun control laws were passed, according to the Harvard study. In fact, their murder rates hit an all time low, before any gun laws were passed. In fact, their violent crimes have risen since they enacted gun control laws. By comparison, violent crimes have dropped in the US over the same period.

Russia has a ban on hand guns and their murder rate is 30.6%, whereas in the United States the rate is a much lower 7.8%. And during the 1990s, gun ownership grew significantly in the United States, while violent crimes dropped by 30%. In England, after they banned handguns, the rate of violent crimes soared.

The Harvard Journal of Law and Public Policy, conceeded that the results they found in their report was not what they expected to find.

http://www.examiner.com/article/harvard-study-shows-gun-control-doesn-t-save-lives

Also see:

Britain’s Gun-Control Folly
by Scott McPherson December 16, 2005

In response, allow me to quote at length from “Gun Control in England: The Tarnished Gold Standard,” written by historian Joyce Lee Malcolm and published in the fall 2004 issue of Journal on Firearms & Public Policy:

[Between 1997 and 2003] crimes with [banned firearms] have more than doubled…. In 2002, for the fourth consecutive year, gun crime in England and Wales rose — by 35 percent for all firearms, and by a whopping 46 percent for the banned handguns. Nearly 10,000 firearms offenses were committed…. Clearly since the ban criminals have not found it difficult to get guns and the balance has not shifted in the interest of public safety….

In the four years from 1997 to 2001 the rate of violent crime more than doubled. The UK murder rate for 2002 was the highest for a century….

A recent study of all the countries of western Europe has found that in 2001 Britain had the worst record for killings, violence and burglary, and its citizens had one of the highest risks in the industrialized world of becoming victims of crime….

And here’s the icing on the cake: “[A] United Nations study of eighteen industrialized countries, including the United States, published in 2002 … found England and Wales at the top of the Western world’s crime league, with the worst record for ‘very serious’ offenses.” [Emphasis added]

And all this while crime in the United States, including violent crime, has been steadily falling. The “Wild West” seems to be 3,000 miles to our east.

http://fff.org/explore-freedom/article/britains-guncontrol-folly/


The great gun control fallacy

Thomas Sowell

Must every tragic mass shooting bring out the shrill ignorance of "gun control" advocates?

The key fallacy of so-called gun control laws is that such laws do not in fact control guns. They simply disarm law-abiding citizens, while people bent on violence find firearms readily available.

If gun control zealots had any respect for facts, they would have discovered this long ago, because there have been too many factual studies over the years to leave any serious doubt about gun control laws being not merely futile but counterproductive.

Places and times with the strongest gun control laws have often been places and times with high murder rates. Washington, DC, is a classic example, but just one among many.

When it comes to the rate of gun ownership, that is higher in rural areas than in urban areas, but the murder rate is higher in urban areas. The rate of gun ownership is higher among whites than among blacks, but the murder rate is higher among blacks. For the country as a whole, handgun ownership doubled in the late 20th century, while the murder rate went down.

The few counter-examples offered by gun control zealots do not stand up under scrutiny. Perhaps their strongest talking point is that Britain has stronger gun control laws than the United States and lower murder rates.

But, if you look back through history, you will find that Britain has had a lower murder rate than the United States for more than two centuries – and, for most of that time, the British had no more stringent gun control laws than the United States. Indeed, neither country had stringent gun control for most of that time.

In the middle of the 20th century, you could buy a shotgun in London with no questions asked. New York, which at that time had had the stringent Sullivan Law restricting gun ownership since 1911, still had several times the gun murder rate of London, as well as several times the London murder rate with other weapons.

Neither guns nor gun control was not the reason for the difference in murder rates. People were the difference.

Yet many of the most zealous advocates of gun control laws, on both sides of the Atlantic, have also been advocates of leniency toward criminals.

In Britain, such people have been so successful that legal gun ownership has been reduced almost to the vanishing point, while even most convicted felons in Britain are not put behind bars. The crime rate, including the rate of crimes committed with guns, is far higher in Britain now than it was back in the days when there were few restrictions on Britons buying firearms. In 1954, there were only a dozen armed robberies in London but, by the 1990s – after decades of ever tightening gun ownership restrictions – there were more than a hundred times as many armed robberies.

Gun control zealots' choice of Britain for comparison with the United States has been wholly tendentious, not only because it ignored the history of the two countries, but also because it ignored other countries with stronger gun control laws than the United States, such as Russia, Brazil and Mexico. All of these countries have higher murder rates than the United States.

You could compare other sets of countries and get similar results. Gun ownership has been three times as high in Switzerland as in Germany, but the Swiss have had lower murder rates. Other countries with high rates of gun ownership and low murder rates include Israel, New Zealand, and Finland.

Guns are not the problem. People are the problem – including people who are determined to push gun control laws, either in ignorance of the facts or in defiance of the facts.

There is innocent ignorance and there is invincible, dogmatic and self-righteous ignorance. Every tragic mass shooting seems to bring out examples of both among gun control advocates.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/dec/18/great-gun-control-fallacy-thomas-sowell

History of Gun Registration Leading To Gun Confiscation

October 30, 2015/ /by Bill Kendall

Throughout modern history, gun confiscation is usually preceded by a gun registration. It makes sense to know where the guns are before you demand they be turned in. This usually does not end well for those turning in their weapons as history shows us.

http://genesiscnc.com/history-of-gun-registration-gun-confiscation/

"If you are for gun control, then you are not against guns, because the guns will be needed to disarm people. So it’s not that you are anti-gun. You’ll need the police’s guns to take away other people’s guns. So you’re very Pro-Gun, you just believe that only the Government (which is, of course, so reliable, honest, moral and virtuous…) should be allowed to have guns. There is no such thing as gun control. There is only centralizing gun ownership in the hands of a small, political elite and their minions."

- Stefan Molyneux

Do libertarians favor gun control?

QUESTION: I am unclear on the libertarian stand on gun control and crime. Should there be gun control in a libertarian society? And if so, how much?

MY SHORT ANSWER: Firearms, like fists, can be used for offense or defense. Libertarians would not advocate cutting off a person’s access to firearms any more than they would advocate cutting off a person’s hands to prevent a brawl.

Most people who advocate gun control do so because they believe it lowers the crime rate. In fact, just the opposite is true. Violent crime ( , robbery, and homicide) decrease dramatically when states pass laws that permit peaceful citizens to carry concealed weapons.

One famous example: in 1966 and 1967 Orlando, Florida police responded to a epidemic with a highly-publicized program to train 2,500 women in the use of firearms. Orlando became the only city with a population over 100,000 which showed a decrease in crime. , aggravated assault, and burglary were reduced by 90%, 25%, and 24% respectively — without a single woman ever firing a shot in self-defense.

Criminals are looking for an easy mark and avoid those who might be armed. Anyone who doubts this might wish to put a sign on their front lawn saying “This house is a gun-free zone” to experience the consequences firsthand.

Gun control is actually “victim disarmament.” It exposes the weakest among us — women, children, and the elderly — to greater risk of attack. It denies us the ability to defend ourselves against those who would harm us.

Since the courts have ruled that the police have no obligation to protect an individual citizen from attack, we have no legal recourse if they fail to do so.

Acting in self-defense, armed citizens kill more criminals each year than police do, yet shoot only one-tenth as many innocent people by mistake. Clearly, armed citizens act as responsibly (if not more so) than trained law enforcers.

Libertarians believe that everyone has the right to self-defense. America’s founders did too. Libertarians strongly support the Second Amendment. Libertarians do not support the victim-disarmament laws collectively known as “gun control.”

For more details, including references for the examples cited above, see Chapter 16 of my book, Healing Our World in an Age of Aggression, available from the Advocates (2003 edition). The 1993 edition can be read online for free at mywebsite.
This is just another example NRA propaganda and nothing less. Or another set of distorted facts to promote the sale of guns.

Gun control is quite simple. Less guns, means less people killing with guns. Anyone who believes otherwise, is either misinformed, an arms dealer or just psychopathic and looking for an excuse to own their own guns.
 
No Offense.
But that Study is Bull .

Murder Rate per 100k Citizens in Luxembourg is 0.7 Which is LOWER than Germany. And nowhere even close to 9 Times of what Germany has.....
Germany has 0.9

I do have some sympathy with the pro-gun argument; mostly because - I think legal prohibition in general should be a rarity. And - in cases like the US where there is already widespread gun ownership - I think gun control would be relatively ineffective.

But they let themselves down with too much posting opinions, preferences and (as above) lies as fact.
 
Exactly, Stupid hippy!!!

Which is another way of saying guns don't kill people, people kill people. When someone finds intent, they will find a weapon. No, gun control won't save lives. I doubt it would even lower gun related deaths.

Like most things, as a nation let's find out the hard way.

This! Criminal elements always check to be sure of legality. Right?
 
Because its truth, I'm sorry if this upset you, but life can be taken with a slingshot, knife just as easy.
Hence the expression 'Dont bring a knife to a gunfight' ?
Killing someone with a knife, and I am assuming you mean a normal kitchen knife, is a lot harder than shooting someone- for one driving a blade into flesh and bone isnt physically easy, let alone mentally easy, whereas pulling a trigger is- it is much harder to kill using anything other than modern explosives or projectile weapons
 
A gun is a machine designed to destroy living matter. When slugs hit human flesh they do terrible damage - by design - and it's right that, for example, our armed forces carry such devices with them when we put them in harms way.

Such devices have absolutely no business being among civilians in a civilized society. None. The effects of allowing it are absolutely clear to see in what happens across the pond.

No one has any business going around invading other people's homelands (especially when you're not welcomed by the people, as the recent terrorist attacks between France and Florida prove), yet it still happens and you people still rally to "support the troops". Disarm the government, then a discussion on gun control can start as anyone who supports disarming or restricting the private individual but not their own government's employees cannot possibly claim to support gun control.
 
Disregarding of me generally approving of stricter gun laws, although not approving a total prohibition, I don't think that it's possible to introduce gun control in the US.

There are just to much arms and ammunition unevenly distributed over the population.

From a logistical point of view it would be an absolute nightmare, since you can't expect the people to go to the next police station to drop their guns off.


Nonetheless, the last thing you want during a major incident are armed civilians panicking and shooting around. And no, the average civilian won't keep his cool in such a situation, the average civilian would crap his/her pants twice or trice.

The US is a bit between a rock and a hard place right now. On the one hand you have accidents and incidents, sometimes with multiple dead, every day, on the other hand you have gun control, which sounds good in the theory, but isn't doable in the practice.

Btw, it's a misconception that gun control is solely about the reduction of criminality or that it's about taking your guns away. A simple law that all gun owners are required to have weapon safes and to lock their guns away when they're not around would have prevented a whole lot of horrifying 'Toddler shoots parent', 'Toddler shoots other toddler' or 'Toddler shoots him/herself' headlines.

Another point is that a whole lot of crimes happen in affect. Someone get enraged, a gun is easy availabe (the sheer number of guns in the US makes them easy available), one thing leads to another and someone dies. It was already mentioned a few times that it's a lot harder to kill someone with a knife than with a gun. Someone who's attacked with a knife has often a chance to defend him/herself or to flee.

While the number of crimes maybe wouldn't decrease, the number of gun related deaths surely would.

For the point with the criminals abiding to legality: Criminals aren't criminals for the sake of being a criminal (most of them).

Following the rules of the market, the supply of illegal guns should be quite low in the US, simply because they can get a perfectly legal gun for themselves. Even if they can't, they just need to pay a little extra to whomever with a clean record to get them one. The second thing is that illegal guns are certainly not cheaper than legal ones and if they are someone is probably trying to get evidence of themselves. That would literally be a 'loaded' gun then.

Which means, ironically, that criminals in the US don't break the rules to get a gun.


I think it's kind of like the speed limit. Too much restriction of the speed isn't efficient anymore and too less isn't effective enough. Same goes for gun control. The US needs to find solutions and compromises which decrease the number of gunrelated deaths the most while limiting the rights of gun owners the least.

Gun control in the sense of 'We're taking all your guns away' isn't doable in my opinion.

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No one has any business going around invading other people's homelands (especially when you're not welcomed by the people, as the recent terrorist attacks between France and Florida prove), yet it still happens and you people still rally to "support the troops". Disarm the government, then a discussion on gun control can start as anyone who supports disarming or restricting the private individual but not their own government's employees cannot possibly claim to support gun control.

That can't happen. A constitutional state needs the monopoly of force (dunno if it's called that in english, the literal translation from german would be monopoly on violence, which is ... yeah), simply to force everyone in the country to accept its jurisdiction. And you certainly don't want to live in an anarchy.

Leaving aside the relations and situation in the rest of the world.

I agree that the army of an country should get the legitimacy of missions abroad from the parliament, like it's in Germany. Without a mandate from the parliament, no deployment. Unless it's a defense case or cooperation between authorities.
 
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No one has any business going around invading other people's homelands (especially when you're not welcomed by the people, as the recent terrorist attacks between France and Florida prove), yet it still happens and you people still rally to "support the troops". Disarm the government, then a discussion on gun control can start as anyone who supports disarming or restricting the private individual but not their own government's employees cannot possibly claim to support gun control.

If the reason to own guns is to protect you from your own military then that's the silliest thing I've ever heard, and that's really saying something.

By that logic, the general population should be allowed to have tanks, cruise missile launchers, surface to air missiles, destroyers, jet-fighters, helicopter gunships and aircraft carriers, not to mention nuclear weapons, because the government have them and you need to protect yourself from them.

Sorry but that's daft.
 
If the reason to own guns is to protect you from your own military then that's the silliest thing I've ever heard, and that's really saying something.

By that logic, the general population should be allowed to have tanks, cruise missile launchers, surface to air missiles, destroyers, jet-fighters, helicopter gunships and aircraft carriers, not to mention nuclear weapons, because the government have them and you need to protect yourself from them.

Sorry but that's daft.
Are submarines OK; or are they considered, concealed weapons?
 
Disregarding of me generally approving of stricter gun laws, although not approving a total prohibition, I don't think that it's possible to introduce gun control in the US.

There are just to much arms and ammunition unevenly distributed over the population.

From a logistical point of view it would be an absolute nightmare, since you can't expect the people to go to the next police station to drop their guns off.


Nonetheless, the last thing you want during a major incident are armed civilians panicking and shooting around. And no, the average civilian won't keep his cool in such a situation, the average civilian would crap his/her pants twice or trice.

The US is a bit between a rock and a hard place right now. On the one hand you have accidents and incidents, sometimes with multiple dead, every day, on the other hand you have gun control, which sounds good in the theory, but isn't doable in the practice.

Btw, it's a misconception that gun control is solely about the reduction of criminality or that it's about taking your guns away. A simple law that all gun owners are required to have weapon safes and to lock their guns away when they're not around would have prevented a whole lot of horrifying 'Toddler shoots parent', 'Toddler shoots other toddler' or 'Toddler shoots him/herself' headlines.

Another point is that a whole lot of crimes happen in affect. Someone get enraged, a gun is easy availabe (the sheer number of guns in the US makes them easy available), one thing leads to another and someone dies. It was already mentioned a few times that it's a lot harder to kill someone with a knife than with a gun. Someone who's attacked with a knife has often a chance to defend him/herself or to flee.

While the number of crimes maybe wouldn't decrease, the number of gun related deaths surely would.

For the point with the criminals abiding to legality: Criminals aren't criminals for the sake of being a criminal (most of them).
You make alot of assumptions. But this:

Following the rules of the market, the supply of illegal guns should be quite low in the US, simply because they can get a perfectly legal gun for themselves. Even if they can't, they just need to pay a little extra to whomever with a clean record to get them one. The second thing is that illegal guns are certainly not cheaper than legal ones and if they are someone is probably trying to get evidence of themselves. That would literally be a 'loaded' gun then.

Which means, ironically, that criminals in the US don't break the rules to get a gun.
is complete nonsense. Studies have shown 5 of every 6 gun possessing felons either did not buy their gun of purchase it through legal avenues. Which means either it was purchased illegally, or stolen, in which case it cost nothing. 5 out of 6. Illegal firearms are extremely prevalent, even more than we may know, since they were gotten illegally there is no way to track or even estimate how many there may actually be.



That can't happen. A constitutional state needs the monopoly of force (dunno if it's called that in english, the literal translation from german would be monopoly on violence, which is ... yeah), simply to force everyone in the country to accept its jurisdiction. And you certainly don't want to live in an anarchy.

Leaving aside the relations and situation in the rest of the world.

I agree that the army of an country should get the legitimacy of missions abroad from the parliament, like it's in Germany. Without a mandate from the parliament, no deployment. Unless it's a defense case or cooperation between authorities.
I'm assuming some of what you're trying to say may be lost in translation. The US government does not bend it's citizens to its will because it controls the military. We are still governed by consent of the masses. For now.
 
is complete nonsense. Studies have shown 5 of every 6 gun possessing felons either did not buy their gun of purchase it through legal avenues. Which means either it was purchased illegally, or stolen, in which case it cost nothing. 5 out of 6. Illegal firearms are extremely prevalent, even more than we may know, since they were gotten illegally there is no way to track or even estimate how many there may actually be.

Do you have some links to those studies?

My theory and the studies you cite, don't necessarily contradict each other.

I'd like to see more details about them. For example it's not clear if guns bought privately count towards illegal guns or not.

I'm assuming some of what you're trying to say may be lost in translation. The US government does not bend it's citizens to its will because it controls the military. We are still governed by consent of the masses. For now.

What I was trying to say is, that the state needs forces to maintain it's jurisdiction. A court is absolutely meaningless if it has no power to accomplish its verdict.
 
The US is the only developed country with permissive gun laws.
It was a brilliant idea, and was so successful that every other country was impressed, and copied it!

Oh wait.
See, this is what you get from the population that elects George Bush, and follows that with Sarah Palin and finally Donald Trump.
 
That can't happen. A constitutional state needs the monopoly of force (dunno if it's called that in english, the literal translation from german would be monopoly on violence, which is ... yeah), simply to force everyone in the country to accept its jurisdiction. And you certainly don't want to live in an anarchy.

The state is by design a criminal institution and all of its employees are lawless so you're living in anarchy whether you like it or not.

Leaving aside the relations and situation in the rest of the world. I agree that the army of an country should get the legitimacy of missions abroad from the parliament, like it's in Germany. Without a mandate from the parliament, no deployment. Unless it's a defense case or cooperation between authorities.

Democracy does not make anything more legitimate. It just makes more people responsible and scuffles away the responsibility of the ruling class since voters... well, vote.

If the reason to own guns is to protect you from your own military then that's the silliest thing I've ever heard, and that's really saying something.

I have no obligation to make reason to own anything. The obligation for reason and thus burden of proof relies on those that deem such things harmful in whatever capacity.

Furthermore, I have nothing resembling what you titled "your own military" - I may be a natural-born and citizen of the U.S. but that's only a status on a piece of paper that someone else signed my name on before I was born. I have no military.

By that logic, the general population should be allowed to have tanks, cruise missile launchers, surface to air missiles, destroyers, jet-fighters, helicopter gunships and aircraft carriers, not to mention nuclear weapons, because the government have them and you need to protect yourself from them.

Sorry but that's daft.

I'll quote a friend of mine here from a G+ post since he's more diplomatic than I am as per the law, but the short of it is not only does the 2nd amendment recognize the right of the individual to bear arms used by the modern military in the individual's time, but that the "well-regulated militia" aspect in fact obligates the individual to own military-grade hardware of his time. So we don't just have the right but we're obligated to own everything up to a nuclear bomb for ourselves. (I'm absolutely of the opinion that if government is a necessity or that its existence is inevitable, it not only should be mandatory to arm and familiarize every citizen with military-grade hardware, but that it ought be criminal to not carry. I hate the idea that one day I may wind up pulling the trigger only to find out the person I saved thinks I'm evil for taking a life to save his sorry ass, and it's becoming a growing sentiment.)

In 1939, the Supreme Court of the United States in Miller denied the claim of a defendant that certain provisions of Federal law regulating the possession of certain firearms was Unconstitutional. The reason the Court denied the claim is crucial to the current debate over Federal and State regulation of firearms, and the meaning of the Second Amendment according to the Supreme Court. [By the way, the Heller decision did not overturn or modify the decision in Miller, which therefore remains binding precedent. The two decisions are completely compatible.]

To understand the Court's decision in Miller, one must first comprehend how the Miller Court interpreted the Second Amendment:

SCOTUS: "The Constitution, as originally adopted, granted to the Congress power --

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions; To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress.

With obvious purpose to assure the continuation and render possible the effectiveness of such forces, the declaration and guarantee of the Second Amendment were made. It must be interpreted and applied with that end in view.

The Militia which the States were expected to maintain and train is set in contrast with Troops which they [p179] were forbidden to keep without the consent of Congress. The sentiment of the time strongly disfavored standing armies; the common view was that adequate defense of country and laws could be secured through the Militia -- civilians primarily, soldiers on occasion.

The signification attributed to the term Militia appears from the debates in the Convention, the history and legislation of Colonies and States, and the writings of approved commentators. These show plainly enough that the Militia comprised all males physically capable of acting in concert for the common defense. "A body of citizens enrolled for military discipline." And further, that ordinarily, when called for service these men were expected to appear bearing arms supplied by themselves and of the kind in common use at the time.

Blackstone's Commentaries, Vol. 2, Ch. 13, p. 409 points out "that king Alfred first settled a national militia in this kingdom," and traces the subsequent development and use of such forces." ~ United States v. Miller (No. 696) 26 F.Supp. 1002, reversed. [Decided: May 15, 1939]

If that's how the Court interpreted the Second Amendment, then why did it deny the defendant's claim that the Federal laws regulating firearms at the time were Unconstitutional?

The reason was clearly not, as has often been falsely claimed, that the MillerCourt concluded that the Second Amendment did not grant an individual right to keep and bear arms.

Instead, the Court explained its reason this way:

"In the absence of any evidence tending to show that possession or use of a "shotgun having a barrel of less than eighteen inches in length" at this time has some reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well regulated militia, we cannot say that the Second Amendment guarantees the right to keep and bear such an instrument. Certainly it is not within judicial notice that this weapon is any part of the ordinary military equipment, or that its use could contribute to the common defense. Aymette v. State, 2 Humphreys (Tenn.) 154, 158."

In other words, no evidence had been entered into the official record of the case proving that the weapon possessed by the defendant (a shotgun with a a barrel length of less than 18") was "any part of the ordinary military equipment, or that its use could contribute to the common defense."

The Court interpreted the Second Amendment as protecting an individual right to keep and bear military grade firearms, and as far as it knew based on the evidence presented, a short-barreled shotgun was not "ordinary military equipment," nor was it useful for the common defense of the nation.

So the defendant lost the case solely because his firearm wasn't--in the opinion of the Court in the absence of any evidence on the subject in the official record of the case--a military grade weapon useful for "the common defense."

Therefore, per current binding Supreme Court precedent, any outright prohibitions of firearms that qualify as "ordinary military equipment" or that would be useful "for the common defense" are Unconstitutional.
 
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