Another useful trick for PACs and missiles, if the AI is reverse-thrusting to line up a shot in front of you, you can avoid slow projectiles like that by hitting one of your vertical thrust keys when they fire. Because of how flat most ships in Elite are, it doesn't take very much up or down thrust to get out of the way.
If you feel like FD has yanked the fun out from under you since 2.1, here are some suggestions
- Thread starter lomac
- Start date
I hear what you're saying Yoda, and if you don't want to bother with the giant wall of text with suggestions, that's ok. Just check out the very last 2 at the bottom. The most relevant one for you is putting in a support ticket requesting that FD reset your combat rank. Then the pirate scum interdicting you will start off easy, and your rank will advance only in a reasonable way so you won't be fighting above your ability. Most likely it won't get back up to where it is now, which is what's causing you to be attacked by NPCs that are out of reach of your current play style.
If you take a look at the section on why you're being interdicted all the time and by violent skilled murderers, it will explain it some. The NPCs can be 1-2 ranks above your rank, which is why resetting your combat rank may be very helpful for a lot of people.
As to why they interdict you when you have no good loot, there are 2 possibilities.
1. You have taken a mission (could be a salvage mission, boom time data delivery, etc. doesn't have to be assassination or combat) and either in the mission description when you took it, or maybe even later as a message, you find out that ships will be sent against you. Yes, even if it didn't say that at the start, it may be added as an "optional" goal. It's only optional in that you get some extra $ if you kill them, it's not optional in terms of not getting them coming after you
Those NPCs are better equipped and maybe higher ranked than the normal pirates, and sometimes they just want to murder you. Be aware of that and don't grab those type of missions when you want just peaceful trading/smuggling (or until you have your combat rank reset).2. You have engineering cargo commodities. Not the micro-resources, but the ones that show up as cargo. Yes even just one of those, or even one ton of poop (biowaste) is enough to attract pirates, and they'll go after you like it's a ton of gold.
Also if you want to do trading, smuggling and can't run around in a combat ship all the time, just watch the little video of my T6 killing a Deadly Viper and DBS with just 2 launchers. No skill required, just fly in a straight line.
For interdictions, if you can't win the mini-game, don't even try. Just right away submit so you won't be spun around end over end and get the 45 second FSD cooldown. Follow my instructions in the section on interdictions and you too can laugh at the fools who interdict you from now on.
If you take the time to do those 2 things: 1) support ticket requesting combat rank reset and 2) equip mines on your trading/smuggling ships and learn to submit then without having to do anything else you can pretty much go back to what you were doing before 2.1 dropped. And since you are now killing your interdictors instead of running, they can't follow you and re-interdict you in 20 seconds.
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Thanks, good tip. Maybe for a more advanced tips section
requires more situational awareness
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Thanks for posting more details. I'll give that a shot. May be too tiring to do on a regular basis but definitely worth trying
It will ruin whatever finger you laterally thrust with
I'm using an engine modded FDL (425 boost) with a huge beam, two frag cannons and two seeker launchers. Im getting double shot tonight on the frags so they're handier at smashing hull and shield while the ship is cooling down from the beam.
One of the things that turned me off the game. A good game will make you interact with NPC's as just another entity. You are just another irrelevant part of the persistent universe.
This game fails big time in this department, it is almost like it is trying to be a sandbox but it give you a unrealistic linear story to follow.. Such a buzz killer..
Again I suspect that fact NPC are not subject to the same laws of combat that real players are (and that difficulty level has been amped up) it turns NPC combat into a farce..
Dangerous shouldn't be about Fedex'ing more op baddies to your door step, we still in the 90's or what???
Thanks OP...you've given some great suggestions! Will definitely try some of them out.
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Frawd
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Frawd
It's not so much a question of adaptation at the moment for me, as I haven't logged in much since 2.1 dropped. It's recognizing when things are bugs and not "working as intended", as it turns out the super-plasma vulcan and Anaconda ballerina agility both were. I remember the furor over the "0 pips to shields" thing, where people were claiming that bad pip management was the reason the Python in the video died so quickly (2 seconds from full shields to destroyed). Until the super-weapon bug was identified there were people claiming that was how things were/should be and that the fault lay with the pilot.
My combat rank is Novice iirc (I reset before the 2.1 patch), so linked difficulty won't be an issue. I was still interdicted by a Dangerous dual-railgun Viper III while on a simple 55k courier mission though, and it's things like that which tell me that adapting to the current crop of new(ish) mechanics isn't worth it until we know for certain they're the new standard and not the latest episode in the New Patch/Serious Glitch serial that's been running since release. The fact that serious bugs like the old Spin of Doom™ can be left for months until being fixed just makes telling legit mechanics and bugs apart all the harder [wacky]
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I don't want to play a game where the mode dictates the difficulty. I choose the mode depending on how I feel that night, mode is about playing with others or alone, not how hard you want the game to be.
The job of an AI programmer is to make the npcs as close to human pilots as possible.
All she's doing now is turning them into inhuman terminators.
Add to that the bug which makes them forget they have weapons, and you get both extremely easy AND extremely difficuly npcs, especially if your combat rank is high and you fly a large non-combat ship.
Not fun and needs to be improved (both ends of the spectrum).
That said, your tips are great lomac. +1 for that.
These indeed help in surviving a battle or at least give the player a chance to run away without getting destroyed.
Good point about that npc chaffing.
Always thought they were cheating since they seemed to fire them non-stop.
Should have been paying attention to their module layout.
Applying 30 whiplashes to self for being a whiny c**t.
All she's doing now is turning them into inhuman terminators.
Add to that the bug which makes them forget they have weapons, and you get both extremely easy AND extremely difficuly npcs, especially if your combat rank is high and you fly a large non-combat ship.
Not fun and needs to be improved (both ends of the spectrum).
That said, your tips are great lomac. +1 for that.
These indeed help in surviving a battle or at least give the player a chance to run away without getting destroyed.
Good point about that npc chaffing.
Always thought they were cheating since they seemed to fire them non-stop.
Should have been paying attention to their module layout.
Applying 30 whiplashes to self for being a whiny c**t.
Yup. And various system security levels.
The problem is that I don't think that many of the players who have had issues are managing their own risks very well, or aren't aware of the 'manual difficulty setting' and expect the game to instead manage the difficulty, and are upset when it does not.
We have had the training wheels on for a long time and people now expect to be able to solo HI CZs for an hour straight, stack 10 Elite missions and travel through Anarchist systems without getting interdicted and killed or any of the other common issues which - after some questioning - often turn out to be behind people's woes.
We can also now brazenly accept missions way above our pay-grade and we 'expect' to succeed, or barely glance at the difficulty level.
In most respects the difficulty of play is at least partially down to us, in that we choose what difficulty missions to take and where to fly. I can't help but think that some players are failing at the first hurdle when it comes to mitigating risks, or aren't sufficiently aware that the hurdle exists in the first place.
Stopping by to point out the FA-off advice is flatly wrong.
The idea FA-off helps you turn faster is a myth.
The one thing FA-off is really helpful for, is boosting then flipping on your tail, while continuing to move on the original trajectory.
Otherwise it lends no advantage to maneuvering in combat, and anything that can be done in FA-off can be accomplished in FA-on with lateral thrust & throttle control (as well as ENG pips management).
The idea FA-off helps you turn faster is a myth.
The one thing FA-off is really helpful for, is boosting then flipping on your tail, while continuing to move on the original trajectory.
Otherwise it lends no advantage to maneuvering in combat, and anything that can be done in FA-off can be accomplished in FA-on with lateral thrust & throttle control (as well as ENG pips management).
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I'd say that RES sites and CZs difficulty can be managed. I don't think the system security level matters. I know there are people who believe it matters. Yesterday I was merely shuttling my ship to LHS 3447, Dalton Gateway, and was interdicted for no reason. High security system, no PP pledge, no mission, no cargo, NO CARGO RACKS, and I was interdicted with the message "I want what you have." which all I had was my ship.
![[VR] Enexemander](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/119/119036.jpg?1621636716){kind=avatar}
Maybe the NPC needed your ship components for the engineers!
Well I do have materials!
System security is relevant in that system security vessels turn up to help. Anecdotally I get interdicted much less in secure systems that I do trawling anarchy systems.
But 'no reason' interdictions are still going to happen and are still a valid part of the game for me: It's the wild frontier out there, full of killers. Hence the 'Dangerous', I guess. It's just that there are *a lot less* of them if a player manages their risks via mission stacking, location, et cetera.
As to managing CZ difficulties, I believe it would be entirely appropriate for some of them to be completely unmanageable in anything other than a wing of engineer-tuned Corvettes! That way winged up players in maxxed out engineer anacondas have exciting content. There needs to be a range of content for all players. Unfortunately that means that high end content is going to get stumbled into by lower-tiered players, because there are no artificial 'gateways' to that content: Anyone can take an Elite mission or go to a HICZ. However, the solution isn't to either close those gates or to make the content easy; it's to indicate and warn of those risks and let the player take responsibility in an informed manner.
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Iomac i understand what you are saying, but you say that enemies CAN be 1-2 ranks above and thats the issue. if anything is in the hold they are ALWAYS 2 levels above, in a fully kiited out combat ship which totally outmatches the asp. the interdiction game DOESNT WORK. period. i could be in a fully kitted out sidewinder where its easy to keep the sights on the escape vector and same thing WILL happen. you will STILL get the blue side not move and then suddenyl the drop and the red side up top and its a good chance even if you submit at that point it will FSD fail anyway. and often you cant fly evasive - i get threatened in the chat window by contacts THAT DONT EXIST YET. then they magically appear right behind a few minutes later and insta-interdict - that is you wind up tumbling with damage fsd fail OR back in SC before you can react. thats happened multiple times. then there are the obviously glitched interdictions where there is flickering and two different escape vectors so you HAVE to submit right away. once in normal space with them behind you are relying on jumping out system ASAP and thats unlikely when they have a fully combat fitted viper mk4 or vulture or imperial cutter or clipper or whatever it was destroyed me last - with NO cargo capacity to take anything you drop btw because its all shields and weapons and chaff. surviving long enough to jump is pure luck.
and its not fun. none of it. i got an engineer weapon but each time i die i lose mats i need - and i die a lot trying to make it to the engineers to make low level mods to level them up so i can get something to help me survive...no. 2.0 was more fun than this.
and reset combat rank is no solution. in a few months you are right back in same situation with constant npcs, 98% of whom are 2 levels above and the other part are mostly even higher but very rarely lower or only 1 level above and ALWAYS in ships you have no hope of fight no matter what i stick on my asp. the issue with reset combat rank doesnt fix the issue of the combat rank not reflecting ability in combat but cumulative kills made. you could get to elite by killing lower ranked enemies. assuming you lived that long. yes each victory over a higher opponent would be epic fight and make you feel great but i would lose far more often. maybe its because im too old now, reflexes gone or something.
cargo ships would not exist in such a universe. the only trade would be done by the corvette class warships and be carried by naval vessels not private vessels. if you want an example of what would be the reality in this galaxy if the AI and npc for interdictions generation stays the same, play assassins creed 4 black flag. there the brigs and frigates and men o war of the spanish and british navies are the ones carrying cargo - there are no civilian ships larger than fishing vessels, due to the kind of piracy in that game. all cargo carried by naval ships in that game.
realistically in this game for trade to work there MUST be convoys now escorted by heavy naval forces. explorers would either send data back via long range transmissions or by going to heavily fortified and patrolled military outposts far enough out of the bubble that no npc ships other than naval forces from the superpowers would be in system - and other explorer npcs. being an unarmed explorer is unviable as being a miner or trader now. no combat is no fun. no combat ship all the time in no fun. losing a ship of any kind when you dont have billions of credits is no fun and leads to my situation - where i only plyed the game once recently. why? because last week i got a new gaming laptop and i wanted to see elite in all its graphical glory, to see what the game i used to love and enjoy looks like on this thing, and its beautiful. but unplayable. i will see what the next patch brings. but if i die one time in it i will be waiting for the next patch. if that turns out to be next season its too late and i will move on.
2.0 i was dead certain to buy into season 3. now im probably going to be spending that money elsewhere. not on No Mans Sky because i dont want to play a cartoon space game. and unless star wars franchise gets a modern xwing type combat game it wont be that either. space will be gone to me unless someone takes 2.0 and makes a spin off game from it and calls it elite fun.
and its not fun. none of it. i got an engineer weapon but each time i die i lose mats i need - and i die a lot trying to make it to the engineers to make low level mods to level them up so i can get something to help me survive...no. 2.0 was more fun than this.
and reset combat rank is no solution. in a few months you are right back in same situation with constant npcs, 98% of whom are 2 levels above and the other part are mostly even higher but very rarely lower or only 1 level above and ALWAYS in ships you have no hope of fight no matter what i stick on my asp. the issue with reset combat rank doesnt fix the issue of the combat rank not reflecting ability in combat but cumulative kills made. you could get to elite by killing lower ranked enemies. assuming you lived that long. yes each victory over a higher opponent would be epic fight and make you feel great but i would lose far more often. maybe its because im too old now, reflexes gone or something.
cargo ships would not exist in such a universe. the only trade would be done by the corvette class warships and be carried by naval vessels not private vessels. if you want an example of what would be the reality in this galaxy if the AI and npc for interdictions generation stays the same, play assassins creed 4 black flag. there the brigs and frigates and men o war of the spanish and british navies are the ones carrying cargo - there are no civilian ships larger than fishing vessels, due to the kind of piracy in that game. all cargo carried by naval ships in that game.
realistically in this game for trade to work there MUST be convoys now escorted by heavy naval forces. explorers would either send data back via long range transmissions or by going to heavily fortified and patrolled military outposts far enough out of the bubble that no npc ships other than naval forces from the superpowers would be in system - and other explorer npcs. being an unarmed explorer is unviable as being a miner or trader now. no combat is no fun. no combat ship all the time in no fun. losing a ship of any kind when you dont have billions of credits is no fun and leads to my situation - where i only plyed the game once recently. why? because last week i got a new gaming laptop and i wanted to see elite in all its graphical glory, to see what the game i used to love and enjoy looks like on this thing, and its beautiful. but unplayable. i will see what the next patch brings. but if i die one time in it i will be waiting for the next patch. if that turns out to be next season its too late and i will move on.
2.0 i was dead certain to buy into season 3. now im probably going to be spending that money elsewhere. not on No Mans Sky because i dont want to play a cartoon space game. and unless star wars franchise gets a modern xwing type combat game it wont be that either. space will be gone to me unless someone takes 2.0 and makes a spin off game from it and calls it elite fun.
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nice!
Well I do have materials!
you mean the npc had a material siphon limpet controller fitted? i want one of those!!!
Good post from the OP. Covers a lot of details that players tend to miss. However, there is a few more tips I would add.
1.) Learn to fly backwards, both in FA off and FA on. For whatever reason, the AI does not know how to deal with backwards flying ships very well, and tend to sit in your sights for longer than usual.
2.) Use engineer mods for crying out loud. I thought combat was significantly tougher before I started getting a bunch of lvl 2-3ish mods. Combat quickly became significantly easier. Now that I have a fully mod 5'd Python and Anaconda, I don't run from ANY npc interdictions, I look at them as free combat rank. My Conda is even able to go into distress beacon and weapon fired lvl 4 USS and easily come out on top.
1.) Learn to fly backwards, both in FA off and FA on. For whatever reason, the AI does not know how to deal with backwards flying ships very well, and tend to sit in your sights for longer than usual.
2.) Use engineer mods for crying out loud. I thought combat was significantly tougher before I started getting a bunch of lvl 2-3ish mods. Combat quickly became significantly easier. Now that I have a fully mod 5'd Python and Anaconda, I don't run from ANY npc interdictions, I look at them as free combat rank. My Conda is even able to go into distress beacon and weapon fired lvl 4 USS and easily come out on top.
FA off allows you to thrust in one direction and turn in another without the ship trying to correct your trajectory. You said that yourself in your post. That is the advantage it offers; you can keep your target in your sights as you strafe around them. The downside is that your turns will not be as tight, so something with turretted lasers is still going to hit you, and anything making use of reverse thrust will counter your wide arcing turns. If you are fighting multiple opponents, FA off is essential as you need to be moving around your opponents to force them to reposition, instead of sticking to one target tightly and allowing everyone else to pummel you.
Saying that FA off lends no advantage to combat is a dangerous assertion that simply closes the door to more advanced tactics at higher combat ranks or against players. If that's how you like to fly then it's all good, but you shouldn't encourage newer players to shoot themselves in the foot.
Rep to the OP for the post, save for encouraging combat logging. No to that.
Resetting combat rank isn't a path I'll be taking. This game is all about advancement. If you have to be a twenty something with Olympian reflexes and hepped up on Red Bull to advance in combat rank, then I'll just be playing less. I suspect there are a lot more people that share my opinion than are happy at the moment. Time will tell.
I've died eight times at the hands of NPC's since 2.1 dropped. All of them caused by never-miss railguns while I was using FA Off maneuvers. Take railguns off the NPC's for a month and we'll see how tough the AI is.
The "git gud" crowd are arm-chair quarterbacks looking at a situation well after the fact. "Well, you should have done this..." comments don't really help. I'm not you. I didn't have the luxury of reviewing the after-action video frame by frame before deciding on a course of action. I had seconds, if not less, while having my ship being torn up around me.
This is a game folks. Having fun needs to be the prime reason for playing a game. Combat in Elite used to be a fractional part of the whole. Now, the entire focus is being shifted onto combat at the expense of everything else. Missions, mining, piracy, smuggling, etc. are now secondary, because at the drop of a hat during those activities you're going to get interdicted and have to fight your nuts off perfectly, every, single, time, just to survive. Now according to the armchair quarterback crowd I need to be in a dedicated combat ship, crammed to the gunnels with armour plus no cargo space with mandatory SCB and heatsinks. That isn't fun for me and it certainly isn't the game I bought (three times).
Resetting combat rank isn't a path I'll be taking. This game is all about advancement. If you have to be a twenty something with Olympian reflexes and hepped up on Red Bull to advance in combat rank, then I'll just be playing less. I suspect there are a lot more people that share my opinion than are happy at the moment. Time will tell.
I've died eight times at the hands of NPC's since 2.1 dropped. All of them caused by never-miss railguns while I was using FA Off maneuvers. Take railguns off the NPC's for a month and we'll see how tough the AI is.
The "git gud" crowd are arm-chair quarterbacks looking at a situation well after the fact. "Well, you should have done this..." comments don't really help. I'm not you. I didn't have the luxury of reviewing the after-action video frame by frame before deciding on a course of action. I had seconds, if not less, while having my ship being torn up around me.
This is a game folks. Having fun needs to be the prime reason for playing a game. Combat in Elite used to be a fractional part of the whole. Now, the entire focus is being shifted onto combat at the expense of everything else. Missions, mining, piracy, smuggling, etc. are now secondary, because at the drop of a hat during those activities you're going to get interdicted and have to fight your nuts off perfectly, every, single, time, just to survive. Now according to the armchair quarterback crowd I need to be in a dedicated combat ship, crammed to the gunnels with armour plus no cargo space with mandatory SCB and heatsinks. That isn't fun for me and it certainly isn't the game I bought (three times).
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SS0 is pretty fun, pretty challenging, and never costs several days' effort when you make a mistake.