Debug Tool at 2.0 and SS=0.65 looks terrible - am I missing something?

[[HJ]-RedRaven]

With the Oculus Debug Tool set to 2.0 pixel density and SS=0.65 looks terrible to me. I can 'feel' the faster frame rate/smoothness somehow but it reduces the image to an even grainier quality, losing some of the AA off sharp edges etc, and distant textures become formless, like the AF isn't working. I thought it would just 'soften the image a little, but a lot is being lost.

So forgive me - I'm having trouble seeing why Debug 2.0/SS=0.65 is somehow seen as better, as the final image quality degrades a fair bit. Cobra is rendering much higher quality but then down-sampling and tossing it out (which would account for the texture quality loss).

I'm now running with the highest possible settings apart from Bloom (Off) and Blur (also Off), with a i7 3770K @ 3.8GHz and Gigabyte G1 GTX 1080 in the Rift CV1. Understandably, this is a fairly high-end system and YMMV.

Is there something I'm missing? AA mode? Or is it just about keeping the frame rate up on slower hardware (in which case I'd use Debug default at 1.0 and SS at 1.0; the render seems better at default (as was the case when I was running a 780GTX with the Rift CV1).

I prefer to leave in-game SS at 1.0 and leave the Debug tool at 1.8-2.0 - you can definitely see the results from the Debug over-rendering, but its difficult to see the benefit of dropping SS to 0.65 to see that quality lost.

Both Debug tool and ED appear to be functioning fine; I'll try to take some screengrabs for comparison (at work atm).

 

[CMDR MAIN SEQUENCE]

Curious. For me with PD set to 2.0 it's mainly the text that looks noticeably sharper as do planets at a distance. I'll admit that I can't see much difference with other graphics, but it's worth it just to get clearer text. I have to set SS=0.65 and AA=Off otherwise my GPU wants to melt.

It's not clear from your post what you have anti-aliasing set to? As an aside I'm convinced that the anti-aliasing broke with 2.1 - certainly for the text (and any straight lines) in the HUD and station services menu, I wouldn't like to say if this was across the board as I'm not one for taking screenshots so I've not much to compare. I noticed this on my monitor before I got the CV1. I've seen others say SMAA is broken but I think it's all types.

I prefer to leave in-game SS at 1.0 and leave the Debug tool at 1.8-2.0 - you can definitely see the results from the Debug over-rendering, but its difficult to see the benefit of dropping SS to 0.65 to see that quality lost.

If your 1080 can cope with that then do that. Use the debug tool OSD to keep an eye on frame rates. But this is where everyone's situation will be different - you might be happy with 45 FPS (with ATW working overtime) but not get any side-effects from it, others may get nauseous. It's all about finding the balance between image quality, frame rate and GPU temperature.

Only point of SS=0.65 is for those with less powerful GPUs to save them from exploding

 

[Cmdr Spencer]

Hi, you ate not doing anything wrong. After extensive testing I concluded that keep in game SS at 1, and then increase the debug tool value by 0.1until it starts to affect frame rate too much. On my gt970 I can handle up to 1.7 with just a small amount of stutter in outfitting at the station.
With SS below 1, the visuals lose sharpness in the background, most noticeable are the stars so for me that was a deal breaker. With a 980 and above it may be better to start SS at 1.5 and then tweak the debug tool.
Running 970 with i5 4690k both oc'd slightly, settings on high or ultra, no AA and shadows off. That is as good as it will go for me. The difference when using the debug tool is massive and was a game changer not seen since the use of sweetfx.

 

[RichTF]

I thought that the 2.0/0.65 SS trick was just for the Vive, as a workaround for the problems with ED on that headset at the moment. The support for Oculus is more mature at this stage, so the 2.0/0.65 SS trick isn't needed.

I'm a Vive owner though, so I've not really been following the Oculus-specific threads on here. I do know for sure (multiple threads + personal experience) that the 2.0/0.65 SS trick works wonders on the Vive, it's a huge improvement — but I think that just means that it puts ED-Vive roughly on par with ED-Oculus (i.e.: Oculus users aren't missing out on anything by not using this trick).

 

[CylonSurfer]

Hi, you ate not doing anything wrong. After extensive testing I concluded that keep in game SS at 1, and then increase the debug tool value by 0.1until it starts to affect frame rate too much. On my gt970 I can handle up to 1.7 with just a small amount of stutter in outfitting at the station.
With SS below 1, the visuals lose sharpness in the background, most noticeable are the stars so for me that was a deal breaker. With a 980 and above it may be better to start SS at 1.5 and then tweak the debug tool.
Running 970 with i5 4690k both oc'd slightly, settings on high or ultra, no AA and shadows off. That is as good as it will go for me. The difference when using the debug tool is massive and was a game changer not seen since the use of sweetfx.

I really doubt a 970 can get a PD of 1.7 and produce good FPS in game with SS @ 1.0, particularly while while in canyons and pretty much anything on planet surfaces. Hell I doubt my GTX 1080, 5820K@4.4GHZ and 16GB of DRR4 can get 90FPS in all areas of the game with a PD of 1.7. You must see NPC hitching passed you, similar hitching while pitching and surface terrain stuttering as you pass it. If you are happy to ignore that then great, but its less than ideal.

 

[[HJ]-RedRaven]

It's not clear from your post what you have anti-aliasing set to?

I'm using SMAA (presumably the default, I don't think I've changed it).
Screenshots of the monitor window (simple PrintSceen capture) show it definitely working.
The monitor window is set to the ED default 1280x768.

Sorry for the spoiler tags; the IMGUR tags don't seem to work?

Debug 1.0, SS 1.0

Spoiler

http://imgur.com/GFG5vDO

Debug 2.0, SS 1.0 (significantly sharper, note fan in ceiling and red triangle on SRV wheel, menu text etc but low frame rate)

Spoiler

http://imgur.com/aB6o2PH

Debug 2.0, SS 0.65 (High render quality but severe down-sampling 0.65 degrades the image, but the monitor frame rate is much higher)

Spoiler

http://imgur.com/P8GcykK

Use the debug tool OSD to keep an eye on frame rates. But this is where everyone's situation will be different - you might be happy with 45 FPS (with ATW working overtime) but not get any side-effects from it, others may get nauseous. It's all about finding the balance between image quality, frame rate and GPU temperature.

Only point of SS=0.65 is for those with less powerful GPUs to save them from exploding

All true. I don't seem to suffer from motion sickness at all (a big relief as I gt a bit queasy on aircraft etc and the Gravitron claimed my dinner a few years back too lol, luckily after the ride, not during!) [blah]
Barrelling about on planets and in CQC is all fine.
VR sickness was probably my biggest worry before my CV1 arrived.

 

[dutchy2000]

I don't really see much difference between 1.0 and 0.65, but I see a huge difference in performance. For VR I prefer the performance over the subjective 'better' look. Before trying the 0.65 I compared 1.0 PD in debug tool and 1.0SS in game vs 1.0 PD and 0.65 and I could see no difference, none. Then I tried 1.5SS in game, and I could still see no difference, but my frames dropped like a rock. So I concluded that SS in game is broken, and I should use the debug tool to increase my visuals. I reported the signficant drop in visuals on my DK2 when 2.1 went live, and got given the run around in the report that it was supposed to be like that. Yeah sure, go from looking nice and sharp to a blurry mess with unreadable text is supposed to be like that.

 

[CMDR MAIN SEQUENCE]

Wow the Debug 2.0 SS 1.0 looks almost as sharp as a monitor.

I'm surprised at the difference between Debug 1.0 SS 1.0 and Debug 2.0 SS 0.65. Whilst the text is a little sharper the tyre treads are noticeably more fuzzy, for example. I'm fairly certain I don't see any drop like that. Would need to do some screenshots to be sure. But with the recent heat in the UK+AMD GPU at 82deg+warm Rift on head+small room with only one small window I won't be gaming for at least another day or two

 

[Cmdr Spencer]

I really doubt a 970 can get a PD of 1.7 and produce good FPS in game with SS @ 1.0, particularly while while in canyons and pretty much anything on planet surfaces. Hell I doubt my GTX 1080, 5820K@4.4GHZ and 16GB of DRR4 can get 90FPS in all areas of the game with a PD of 1.7. You must see NPC hitching passed you, similar hitching while pitching and surface terrain stuttering as you pass it. If you are happy to ignore that then great, but its less than ideal.

Well my 970 is overclocked to run at 1314mhz and cpu to 4000. I turn down other things like fx, textures etc if going down on to planets, rather than mess with the supersampling and debug tool and it really works great for me. Lose less quality and sharpness by reducing gfx options in game instead.

Oh, and i'm using the DK2 not CV1

 

[[HJ]-RedRaven]

...So I concluded that SS in game is broken, and I should use the debug tool to increase my visuals.

The Debug tool and the ED in-game supersampling don't use the same 'pathway'. The Debug tool is more efficient, while the in-game engine SS is simply brute force.

Wow the Debug 2.0 SS 1.0 looks almost as sharp as a monitor.

I'm surprised at the difference between Debug 1.0 SS 1.0 and Debug 2.0 SS 0.65. Whilst the text is a little sharper the tyre treads are noticeably more fuzzy, for example. I'm fairly certain I don't see any drop like that. Would need to do some screenshots to be sure. But with the recent heat in the UK+AMD GPU at 82deg+warm Rift on head+small room with only one small window I won't be gaming for at least another day or two

Yes, Debug 2.0 SS 1.0 really does improve the quality, especially on nearby detailed objects like the SRV tyres, and text improves with better definition.

Actual 'as-seen-in-VR' quality is slightly lower as those screenshots don't include the lens distortion, plus you get the slight screen-door effect etc in VR. 2.0 pixel density is too high though - I'm finding the sweet spot is about 1.7 - 1.8 with a GTX 1080 - you get a decent quality increase, and ATW can handle the performance hit under almost all ED situations.

I see a noticeable drop in overall quality when using 0.65SS. It does degrade textures within each polygon (its sort of working in reverse to the sharpening AF achieves), but text and the edges can be improved a bit. The frame rate does jump up considerably - if game engines can leverage the same pipeline as the Debug tool uses to improve quality, we're in for some big gains.

As for actually using 0.65SS - I guess it depends on what you're really after - readable text and slightly better edges, which was what was sorely needed on the Vive, or all-over detail to offset the lower resolution of your HMD (Vive or Rift).

I'm finding Arena serves as a reasonable test, given the crowded 'arenas' with asteroids, station components, multiple ships and fast roll/pitch manoevering. My kill ratio however is not doing well as I'm trying to pay attention to the detail as well as not being shot!

 

[Captain Willard]

VR isn't there yet. Maybe in another 5-10 yrs. In a wrap around pair of sunglasses that also correct for vision.

 

[[HJ]-RedRaven]

VR isn't there yet. Maybe in another 5-10 yrs. In a wrap around pair of sunglasses that also correct for vision.

Bah Humbug.

Part of your statement rings false; it certainly is here; but yes, in 5-10 years VR will only be better.

I like the current aesthetic, although lighter, slimmer and wireless are obvious improvements to be made. I want to be in VR, not be a Geordi LaForge doppelganger.

 

[HeavyGroovez]

Yeah ive experimented with it in Elite and other games that support scaling and found that the textures get smashed pretty hard by the internal downscaling.

2.0 PpDP in the debug tool and 50% scaling in Euro Truck makes a big difference to road sign legibility and remote object outline sharpness but truck trailer liveries look worse for wear.

 

[CylonSurfer]

Well my 970 is overclocked to run at 1314mhz and cpu to 4000. I turn down other things like fx, textures etc if going down on to planets, rather than mess with the supersampling and debug tool and it really works great for me. Lose less quality and sharpness by reducing gfx options in game instead.

Oh, and i'm using the DK2 not CV1

Ah I see that you are not even running with shadows enabled... I guess a lot of these settings are subjective and work around what is best for you. That said, I wouldnt want to fiddle with settings every time I plan a surface trip nor could I be without shadows. For me its about getting as much visual quality as possible, in all scenarios, while maintaining a high frame rate.

 

[CMDR MAIN SEQUENCE]

VR isn't there yet. Maybe in another 5-10 yrs. In a wrap around pair of sunglasses that also correct for vision.

Well if we're talking about 4k (per eye?) + wireless then yes you may be right. But I think image quality in gen 2 (18-24 months away??) is going to be much better than what we have now. For sure I don't think VR HMDs can be considered a mainstream consumer device until they go wireless. When that will happen is anyone's guess.

By the way, does anyone else think that the image sharpness has gone up ever so slightly since the 1.6 Oculus app update? Noticing it in the Home screen in particular - the text seems sharper. Maybe I'm just imagining it. (Disclaimer: I have also "upgraded" *cough* to Windows 10 and have updated to the latest AMD drivers all around the same time but the Oculus update is the most likely candidate IMO)

 

[z4.MAFIA]

With the Oculus Debug Tool set to 2.0 pixel density and SS=0.65 looks terrible to me. I can 'feel' the faster frame rate/smoothness somehow but it reduces the image to an even grainier quality, losing some of the AA off sharp edges etc, and distant textures become formless, like the AF isn't working. I thought it would just 'soften the image a little, but a lot is being lost.

So forgive me - I'm having trouble seeing why Debug 2.0/SS=0.65 is somehow seen as better, as the final image quality degrades a fair bit. Cobra is rendering much higher quality but then down-sampling and tossing it out (which would account for the texture quality loss).

I'm now running with the highest possible settings apart from Bloom (Off) and Blur (also Off), with a i7 3770K @ 3.8GHz and Gigabyte G1 GTX 1080 in the Rift CV1. Understandably, this is a fairly high-end system and YMMV.

Is there something I'm missing? AA mode? Or is it just about keeping the frame rate up on slower hardware (in which case I'd use Debug default at 1.0 and SS at 1.0; the render seems better at default (as was the case when I was running a 780GTX with the Rift CV1).

I prefer to leave in-game SS at 1.0 and leave the Debug tool at 1.8-2.0 - you can definitely see the results from the Debug over-rendering, but its difficult to see the benefit of dropping SS to 0.65 to see that quality lost.

Both Debug tool and ED appear to be functioning fine; I'll try to take some screengrabs for comparison (at work atm).

I see no visual difference in my Vive regardless of the in game setting with a Render Target Multiplier of 2.0.

It sounds like there are differences between the Rift and Vive which might explain why you notice it?

You should be getting a MASSIVE FPS increase with an in game 0.65 setting which might even allow you to take your debug tool multiplier higher than 2.0.

If I were you, I would set my in game super sampling setting to 0.65 and increase the debug tool multiplier as high as possible. The moment you experience performance issues, back it down by 0.1.

If you're interested in my other graphical settings, you can find them below:

http://lookpic.com/O/i2/1006/0wDhSj6o.jpeg

 

[[HJ]-RedRaven]

Interesting idea z4MAFIA, might give pixel density a shove above 2.0 and see what happens.

 

[Shoobiscuit]

Gtx 1080 Overclocked, with In Game SS to 0.85 and Oculus Debug Tool to 1.75. Graphics on Ultra, with AA off, Shadow's Medium, Bloom Off. I get 90 fps, with 86fps in Stations. It is incredibly crisp with these settings and so much fun to cruise around in Canyons on planet surfaces.

 

[shadragon]

Well if we're talking about 4k (per eye?) + wireless then yes you may be right. But I think image quality in gen 2 (18-24 months away??) is going to be much better than what we have now. For sure I don't think VR HMDs can be considered a mainstream consumer device until they go wireless. When that will happen is anyone's guess.

You can wirelessly connect your computer, but a cable will be a hundred times faster. I doubt VR will support HQ wireless for a very long time.

 

[sam75]

Gtx 1080 Overclocked, with In Game SS to 0.85 and Oculus Debug Tool to 1.75. Graphics on Ultra, with AA off, Shadow's Medium, Bloom Off. I get 90 fps, with 86fps in Stations. It is incredibly crisp with these settings and so much fun to cruise around in Canyons on planet surfaces.

thanks for your settings, these work well for me.