UAs, Barnacles and other mysteries Thread 8 - The Canonn

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I've been away from the weekend so have have only been able to do theoretical research.

I haven't really tried to decode the message but have instead approached the problem by looking at it from the other direction. Both UAs and UPs point to Merope 5C. This appears to indicate that this is the context or reference frame of the message. This is seems to be quite widely accepted. The questions I asked myself were these: What characteristics of Merope 5C could be universally agreed and understood by any advanced species? By referring to these characteristics what other useful information could be described?

The most obvious universal characteristics of Merope 5C are its orbital characteristics. Many people have been looking at these.

A positional system for the surface of Merope 5C

It is possible to build a method for locating a point on the surface of 5C with reference only to it's orbital characteristics. A point on a sphere can be described by two angles, azimuth and elevation. This requires having two key references, a pole to give the angle of elevation and a meridian to give angle of azimuth. Angles can be described universally using radians. However we need to know the direction in which the angles operate.

We can easily derive poles from the orbital characteristics of Merope 5C. There are two simple options. We can define the poles as being perpendicular to the orbital plane (orbital poles). Or we can use the axial rotation of the body (axial poles). These are not the same because Merope 5C has an axial tilt of -15.78º.

Illustration of of orbital and axial poles of the Earth:

AxialTiltObliquity.png




We can also derive a common prime meridian. Merope 5C is tidally locked and this means that the same side always faces Merope 5. Because the orbit is circular there is no libration to cause the body to oscillate from side to side. Axial tilt does cause a vertical oscillation of 31.78º over the cause of it's year of 6.6 D. However this doesn't causes us a problem for defining the meridian. If you were to extend an imaginary line from the centre of M5 to M5C and mark that point and then extend a line through that point across the surface to the poles then you have described an obvious and natural meridian. Because the oscillation is only vertical it doesn't matter at which point of the orbital year you do this or which poles you choose: The axial poles will pass through the orbital poles as it oscillates.

The equator will be described by a line across the surface equidistant to the chosen poles.

Implications

Any message(s) describing a location on the surface of Merope 5C using such a method would be expected to contain the following information:


  • an indication of whether to use the orbital or axial poles (the axial poles seem the most likely)
  • an indication of of the direction of the zero angle of elevation (this could be either pole or the equator)
  • an indication of the direction of the angle of elevation (which way is positive)
  • (possibly) some confirmation of how to describe the meridian
  • (possibly) an indication of the direction of the angle of azimuth (I would expect this to be the direction of rotation)
  • the angle of elevation (probably in radians, and possibly as multiples/fractions of pi)
  • the angle of azimuth (probably in radians, and possibly as multiples/fractions of pi)


A clock for Merope 5C

Again, we can create a clock from orbital characteristics. This is much simpler. Being tidally locked the day and year of Merope 5C are identical at 6.6 D. The direction of movement of the body in it's orbit gives us the direction of the angle that describes the time. All we need to know is where the zero point is.

The most obvious zero point is the ascending node (the point where the orbit of M5C passes upwards through the orbital plane of M5). The problem with this is that M5C crosses the orbital plane on M5 twice during it's orbit. Which of these crossings is our zero point?

The other obvious zero points would be the periapsis (nearest point of orbit) or the apoapsis (furthest point of orbit). For a circular orbit such as that of Merope 5C there should be no periapsis or apoapsis. However as has been noted many times the system map describes the argument of periapsis is given as 138.32º. I'm not sure why this is.

It should be noted that such a clock can only only give us a time within the 6.6 D orbit of Merope 5C. To create a clock for a longer time period we would have to use the orbit of Merope 5 around Merope itself.

Implications

Any message(s) describing a time using the orbit of Merope 5C would be expected to contain the following:


  • the zero point of the orbit of M5C
  • an angle from that zero point describing the time (probably in radians, and possibly as multiples/fractions of pi)

Further notes and observations

It is quite possible that both a time and location could be described in any message.

There are other methods of describing surface location and time using orbital elements. These were the easiest and most obvious to me.

It's more than 20 years since I've done any geometry in anger. Excuse any incorrect terminology and feel free to correct my a language or any errors.

To be honest I think this may all be a bit too complex.


In my research I came across a couple of interesting resources:

Degrees to radians conversion chart


This video of Möbius Transformations illustrated using a Reimann Sphere shows a very familiar image. It's also rather beautiful. I really hope it isn't related to the message because it would suggest our puzzle was created by the guys at Frontier who code the renderer and is far more complex than we imagined:

[video=youtube;0z1fIsUNhO4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0z1fIsUNhO4&spfreload=10[/video]
 
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I have to be honest and say that I don't think there is any much more detail to obtain in terms of waveform cleanup.

A sample frequency of 48KHz, which is typical of an in-game audio sample, only has 960 vertical data points available (the size of the pulse that is transformed to give the Y-axis). A significant fraction is lost by removing the frequency aliasing after performing a fourier transform. Moving to a higher frequency such as 192kHz doesn't help as the additional data points are obtained by interpolation by the sound capturing device.

The ideal sample to work with would be the in-game audio sample frequency as there is no conversion taking place before the audio capture.

BTW, really liked your earlier post + (lots of rep).

I mostly agree with the above sentiment. There is absolutely a limit to the amount of image fidelity that can be packed into the frequency and time range available. And for the most part they hit it but there are areas that were intentionally blurred. It's not systematic noise, it's in the sound file itself since it shows up in every recording. Personally I've lost any hope of actually cleaning it up, it may be possible but it's way the hell past any skill I have. To me this means that either there's another, cleaner image coming, or the fuzzy bits don't matter beyond the detail we can see them.

As an example of what they could have achieved I snagged this online low res image from the earlier referenced evpatoria message:

images

Shoved it through a demo version of Photosounder with samples set so that it was a 2K to 20K Hz by 7 second recording (to match our UP recording), played it and at the same time captured it with Audacity and got the resulting image back out:

KTtahdK.png

I think that shows pretty well both what you're saying: that are limits and those lower frequency ranges will never resolve into fine structure, and my view that the image could have been better. BTW I just have on board nothing fancy sound. With proper engineering I imagine the full image even at the lower 2K Hz range could have been recovered. (pretty certain the two smudges were me moving my mouse)

Again though, really nice work you did on your earlier post.

For the community there is still signal in that image to be deciphered, like the meaning of the temporal spikes. But fiddling around trying to improve fidelity at the 4K Hz and below range is probably a lost cause.

One other point I'd like to make. Hats off to FDEV. This is one of the cooler puzzles using a wide range of disciplines (non-linear thinking, geometry, sound, video, memory, history, math, semantics, logic etc etc) that all have to come together a bit to solve that I've ever seen. Even if it is a bit of a let down in the end (and I have no reason to believe it will be) this has been and continues to be a very entertaining and engaging ride.
 
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Only if you arbitrarily start in the upper right corner and read clockwise. There is nothing universal about clockwise. We only have that concept because initial sundials were predominately in the northern hemisphere. From a pure function of the signal in time and frequency order from lowest to highest the sequence is 4213 (what's 6*9 Base10 represented in Base13 ?)

At some point we have to step back and remember that imperfect humans ultimately made this pictograph, not real honest to god aliens or the lost or whatever. Sadly we must factor in human bias since ultimately some employee at FDEV drew it (probably in a pub on a napkin).

Not sure where that truth leaves us, the simplest answer is 'It's binary, it's a sequence and is intentionally out of order to draw attention to a process: step 1, step 2, step 3 etc'. Simplest isn't necessarily synonymous with correct though.

I'm fairly convinced that's why the lat and long lines aren't drawn properly, it doesn't convey meaning, they just drew what felt right.

I find the idea that the angle in the bottom right is the golden ratio (137.5) more compelling than that the binary sequence is intended to convey Pi. Still yet to find any significance to 1.62 in the temporal spacings though.

I think the purpose of the grid lines is just to indicate that the figure is of a spherical body. The whole figure is indicative IMHO. We should be able to figure out what it means without actually measuring anything.
 
Weren't there several coordinates proposed for a location on Merope 5C? We should recheck those with Mad Dog's new offset. I just don't remember what the coordinates were, not to mention I'm still a few kylies out from the bubble.
 
I've been away from the weekend so have have only been able to do theoretical research.

I haven't really tried to decode the message but have instead approached the problem by looking at it from the other direction. Both UAs and UPs point to Merope 5C. This appears to indicate that this is the context or reference frame of the message. This is seems to be quite widely accepted. The questions I asked myself were these: What characteristics of Merope 5C could be universally agreed and understood by any advanced species? By referring to these characteristics what other useful information could be described?

The most obvious universal characteristics of Merope 5C are its orbital characteristics. Many people have been looking at these.

A positional system for the surface of Merope 5C

It is possible to build a method for locating a point on the surface of 5C with reference only to it's orbital characteristics. A point on a sphere can be described by two angles, azimuth and elevation. This requires having two key references, a pole to give the angle of elevation and a meridian to give angle of azimuth. Angles can be described universally using radians. However we need to know the direction in which the angles operate.

We can easily derive poles from the orbital characteristics of Merope 5C. There are two simple options. We can define the poles as being perpendicular to the orbital plane (orbital poles). Or we can use the axial rotation of the body (axial poles). These are not the same because Merope 5C has an axial tilt of -15.78º.

Illustration of of orbital and axial poles of the Earth:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/61/AxialTiltObliquity.png



We can also derive a common prime meridian. Merope 5C is tidally locked and this means that the same side always faces Merope 5. Because the orbit is circular there is no libration to cause the body to oscillate from side to side. Axial tilt does cause a vertical oscillation of 31.78º over the cause of it's year of 6.6 D. However this doesn't causes us a problem for defining the meridian. If you were to extend an imaginary line from the centre of M5 to M5C and mark that point and then extend a line through that point across the surface to the poles then you have described an obvious and natural meridian. Because the oscillation is only vertical it doesn't matter at which point of the orbital year you do this or which poles you choose: The axial poles will pass through the orbital poles as it oscillates.

The equator will be described by a line across the surface equidistant to the chosen poles.

Implications

Any message(s) describing a location on the surface of Merope 5C using such a method would be expected to contain the following information:


  • an indication of whether to use the orbital or axial poles (the axial poles seem the most likely)
  • an indication of of the direction of the zero angle of elevation (this could be either pole or the equator)
  • an indication of the direction of the angle of elevation (which way is positive)
  • (possibly) some confirmation of how to describe the meridian
  • (possibly) an indication of the direction of the angle of azimuth (I would expect this to be the direction of rotation)
  • the angle of elevation (probably in radians, and possibly as multiples/fractions of pi)
  • the angle of azimuth (probably in radians, and possibly as multiples/fractions of pi)


A clock for Merope 5C

Again, we can create a clock from orbital characteristics. This is much simpler. Being tidally locked the day and year of Merope 5C are identical at 6.6 D. The direction of movement of the body in it's orbit gives us the direction of the angle that describes the time. All we need to know is where the zero point is.

The most obvious zero point is the ascending node (the point where the orbit of M5C passes upwards through the orbital plane of M5). The problem with this is that M5C crosses the orbital plane on M5 twice during it's orbit. Which of these crossings is our zero point?

The other obvious zero points would be the periapsis (nearest point of orbit) or the apoapsis (furthest point of orbit). For a circular orbit such as that of Merope 5C there should be no periapsis or apoapsis. However as has been noted many times the system map describes the argument of periapsis is given as 138.32º. I'm not sure why this is.

It should be noted that such a clock can only only give us a time within the 6.6 D orbit of Merope 5C. To create a clock for a longer time period we would have to use the orbit of Merope 5 around Merope itself.

Implications

Any message(s) describing a time using the orbit of Merope 5C would be expected to contain the following:


  • the zero point of the orbit of M5C
  • an angle from that zero point describing the time (probably in radians, and possibly as multiples/fractions of pi)

Further notes and observations

It is quite possible that both a time and location could be described in any message.

There are other methods of describing surface location and time using orbital elements. These were the easiest and most obvious to me.

It's more than 20 years since I've done any geometry in anger. Excuse any incorrect terminology and feel free to correct my a language or any errors.

To be honest I think this may all be a bit too complex.


In my research I came across a couple of interesting resources:

Degrees to radians conversion chart


This video of Möbius Transformations illustrated using a Reimann Sphere shows a very familiar image. It's also rather beautiful. I really hope it isn't related to the message because it would suggest our puzzle was created by the guys at Frontier who code the renderer and is far more complex than we imagined:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0z1fIsUNhO4&spfreload=10

I'm in no way capable of commenting (right now) on your subject except that I would like praise your post.
This is something I can learn from, thank you very much. I'll be keeping it with my other notes.
+11 so much.

We need 3 parameters to describe a place / fix. 4 to describe an event in spacetime.
The fourth parameter being a reference the clock-cycle for Merope 5c as you say.
I've only been scratching the surface trying to read up on some of it such as Four-vector, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four-vector
 
Where in the 'verse is Gypsy12? He said he'd figured all this crap out and had a coordinate to give south of 5c's equator, and then he bailed without even giving a number, and told us he'd fill us in tomorrow (today) if we hadn't figured out his own indecipherable riddle.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

Check this out, not sure if it was posted already.

Arkoz on reddit made this

http://i.imgur.com/bCn7pAH.gif
I'm liking this. A few other Commanders and myself were speculating it was a clock.
 
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Hi guys.

I think picture in signal not only one that we need to pay attention.

I analyze audio and 100% shure we have next key under alien diagram.

The first screenshot show us diagram frequence begin from 2khz

http://i.imgur.com/niQhkWs.png

And on next screenshot we see additional signal under image between 500hz and 1khz.

http://i.imgur.com/mWSWgYB.png

I 100% shure this signal contain voice. Can you guys who can into sound analyze check this range? You can try pitch signal and maybe denoise it. Thanx.

Hopefully someone with the skill to do so picks this up and gives you a yes or no. It seems there is a very devout belief that the answer lies in math despite the hints that there may be more audio clues to solve. I believe Gypsy was still looking into the audio stuff.
Good luck Cmdr.
 
I have a(nother) crazy idea. Just in case, I've put my tinfoil hat on.

In the original Elite (1) you could force a misjump by turning during the countdown. What if the symbol is simply showing which direction to turn?
Probably a stupid idea...
 
I have a(nother) crazy idea. Just in case, I've put my tinfoil hat on.

In the original Elite (1) you could force a misjump by turning during the countdown. What if the symbol is simply showing which direction to turn?
Probably a stupid idea...

you cant turn during countdown...
 
Where in the 'verse is Gypsy12? He said he'd figured all this crap out and had a coordinate to give south of 5c's equator, and then he bailed without even giving a number, and told us he'd fill us in tomorrow (today) if we hadn't figured out his own indecipherable riddle.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -


I'm liking this. A few other Commanders and myself were speculating it was a clock.

Like this? I posted several..
EHf3tPh.png
 
Check this out, not sure if it was posted already.

I've looked at it for a while and came to the conclusion that it's very cool, pretty even but can't for the life of me figure out why it's relevant. It seems like a completely arbitrary set of disassociated angles, particularly the start and stop points.
 
I've looked at it for a while and came to the conclusion that it's very cool, pretty even but can't for the life of me figure out why it's relevant. It seems like a completely arbitrary set of disassociated angles, particularly the start and stop points.


yep, i agree haha
 
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