Okay, now excuse me because I cannot follow your logic in any way. What difference does it make whether some players are in a Solo/Private Group on the same server, and how many are on an entirely different server? And as for your last remark, you do realize that due to how instancing works, there can at any time be a separate instance of the very area you are in, with players doing stuff there but you cannot see or interact with them?
Elite Babysitter...
- Thread starter JeffRyan
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Okay, now excuse me because I cannot follow your logic in any way. What difference does it make whether some players are in a Solo/Private Group on the same server, and how many are on an entirely different server? And as for your last remark, you do realize that due to how instancing works, there can at any time be a separate instance of the very area you are in, with players doing stuff there but you cannot see or interact with them?
It's not likely to happen anyway - 2 servers.
FD chose P2P combined with lightweight servers for a reason - cost. (Other factors too of course but mainly financial)
Now, maybe that's where your subscriptions should go
No, wrong thread ? I get my coat.
FD chose P2P combined with lightweight servers for a reason - cost. (Other factors too of course but mainly financial)
Now, maybe that's where your subscriptions should go
No, wrong thread ? I get my coat.
That's the thing, he, and some others in here, still think that players that have opted out of PvP, so to speak, would still be there in THEIR instance, lurking in "safety"... that's wrong. Let's say, there are 32 players in a given "all" instance, and one decides do go private or group with his friends... he will not be able to simple "flip a switch" an be gone. He will, most likely have to go dock with a station, then change his mode. In that moment, the system will insert another "all group" player into the now free spot.
That's how multiplayer will, apparently, work... that's the base system of the game.
So, even in the "all group", there could be 100s of players in the same space at the same time, unable to see or interact with each other.
Could you please stop using that particular strawman? You are trying to slip in an argument that "NPCs do not count, and all risk comes from PvP and nothing else". That is patently false, but the way you are phrasing things you keep pushing it as a truth that everybody agrees on.
Which is especially funny since the chances of meeting actual players is dwarfed by the chance of meeting NPC opposition at all times... I mean, discussing the finer points of game systems is one thing, but questioning the base game design over and over, like doing so might, somehow actually change anything about the facts, is just... you know?
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Agreed, +1.
NPCs in Elite will not be the mindless automatons you get in EVE. This has been proven by the alpha, and they'll only get better, badder & meaner.
Yeah, the Devs do have a sense of humour,
PB/Alpha 1
Lol these Rats are 2 easy.
Alpha 4
What the hell, I just got tag teamed by the bloody NPC's.
This thread was started on 5/26 and there's already 73 pages of posts??? What on Earth? I've had the perception till now that we were a fairly niche community but I'm starting to doubt that very much. There's either an incredibly vocal group of people in these forums or this game is getting a huge audience. I don't recall ever seeing any thread grow this fast on any game before.
Don't worry,
90% is but wouldn't it be great if we turned ED into this game,
No you can't, ED is this kind of game.
But wouldn't it be great.........
repeat ad infinitum.
90% is but wouldn't it be great if we turned ED into this game,
No you can't, ED is this kind of game.
But wouldn't it be great.........
repeat ad infinitum.
Simple; Lots of people (me included) waited, tired of vapourware and hype, till premium beta was announced.
You have that. Choose to fly with your transponder on, and all likeminded players will be immediately recognizable with their hollow squares / triangles. Those are the ones who want to play in the same style as you prefer. The ones playing solo / private groups are no concern to you other than they help fund the game for you as well. Those who keep their transponder off you can just treat like NPCs unless they start talking to you
Correct me if I'm wrong but the multiplayer aspect of the game has been a serious part of the promotion of Elite Dangerous and that's not really under discussion. That it elaborates on Elite and Frontier is not really under discussion.
I do NOT want Elite Dangerous to be EVE Online. I've never claimed that, one of my first ever posts in this forum over a year ago is how happy I am that Elite Dangerous IS different from EVE Online.
The discussion here is HOW to integrate multiplayer and how far we should go in steps to protect the multiplayer aspect from griefing, to the point where PvP isn't seriously hampered. Or the interaction of player with player isn't really hampered. I think people in general want multiplayer instead of a single player is they want to interact with PLAYERS. I think that people who join the All Group rather than a private group want to interact with MORE PLAYERS or STRANGERS. That should be an accepted risk in playing in the all group, you won't like all those strangers and some want to do bad things to you.
I'm not trying to redesign the game, but see how those aspects mix together to give the best game possible. We all do, how we go about this is what we're disagreeing about here.
And always remember, EVE is the ******* child of Elite. It always has been.
Or my favorite so far:
Happily cruising in supercruise - get interdicted. As I drop into real space, spinning I do what I always do... max out my scanner range, ramp engines to full and be ready make like a rabbit. The scanner shows just a single target, turns out to be a Cobra.
I'm thinking. OK, a bandit in a cobra with a bounty... sure, I could use the money. Instead of running, I boost into close combat (getting raked a little by the bandit's 4 pulse lasers, but I'm basically fine). I start the turning fight, confident in the Sidewinder's ability to beat an NPC cobra in a knife fight.
Imagine my surprise when the Cobra is using FA off and translational thrusters to out-turn me despite me carefully staying in the sweet spot.
Suddenly I was in a real fight for my life!
Lesson learned. Don't assume that the NPCs are all push-overs
Well I can't explain my points any better than I already have. My 7 year old son understands completely the importance of my points and how it will affect the game so I will see what develops from this discussion. It wasn't for anyone's benefit here other than Frontier staff browsing this thread.
You have that. Choose to fly with your transponder on, and all likeminded players will be immediately recognizable with their hollow squares / triangles. Those are the ones who want to play in the same style as you prefer. The ones playing solo / private groups are no concern to you other than they help fund the game for you as well. Those who keep their transponder off you can just treat like NPCs unless they start talking to you
There comes another, possibly odd, and quite opposite concern for me:
What if I don't want to shoot another player in a situation where I would do so to an NPC? A common situation is, for example, that a fellow bounty hunter accidentally gets a bounty for a random stray shot at an unscanned or clean NPC that just got into the line of fire? As a player I am capable of detecting such a situation, just today there was another player bounty hunting in the same area, we happened to attack the same NPC and he randomly hit me once, immediately getting a bounty. I did not attack said player because I knew it was an accident, but if he would have been displayed as if he was an NPC, I certainly would have attacked.
(My suggestion from the Alpha still stands, hitting an innocent or unknown target that you have not in your lock should not result in an immediate bounty, but wait for 3 shots or a certain percentage of damage dealt before you are considered a criminal.)
That insult was almost cunningly executed, had it not been so obvious. Welcome to my ignore list.
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Or my favorite so far:
Happily cruising in supercruise - get interdicted. As I drop into real space, spinning I do what I always do... max out my scanner range, ramp engines to full and be ready make like a rabbit. The scanner shows just a single target, turns out to be a Cobra.
I'm thinking. OK, a bandit in a cobra with a bounty... sure, I could use the money. Instead of running, I boost into close combat (getting raked a little by the bandit's 4 pulse lasers, but I'm basically fine). I start the turning fight, confident in the Sidewinder's ability to beat an NPC cobra in a knife fight.
Imagine my surprise when the Cobra is using FA off and translational thrusters to out-turn me despite me carefully staying in the sweet spot.
Suddenly I was in a real fight for my life!
Lesson learned. Don't assume that the NPCs are all push-overs
Oh I don't disagree with this point at all.
This is why I don't like the transponder - it creates a situation where people treat PCs & NPCs differently, such as in this example, where we're more likely to understand & forgive a stray shot from a human than from an NPC. IMHO, it should make no difference.
Having said that, I do feel that it's MUCH too easy to be criminalized in the game as it stands, & the way things are, half the player base will have a bounty on them most of the time, which looks to me like an open invite to the (over-hyped) griefing.
While I believe the game should not treat players and NPC different in any game mechanics related way, it should make them clearly distinguishable from NPCs. For I believe on the other hand that we as players can and will treat each others different from NPCs, there is no way around this fact, by being more helpful and forgiving on one hand, regarding them as potentially higher threats in some situations on the other hand (Who does not attack red players in conflict zones as a priority, just to be on the safe side?).