News Engineers Blueprints Materials Update
- Thread starter Zac Antonaci
- Start date
There is no end game, FDev made that clear right when they announced season 2. There does need to be number tweaks on some of the special mods, but the gameplay was starting to get stagnant prior to horizons as combat boiled down to who had more SCBs..
This isn't new content. That's just more tools to play the existing content
So far the only content additions to this game so far have been Community Goals, Power play and the surface missions. 2.1 finally added engineers as the first space ship based content since power play.
Well, I'm not positive I'd use that particular mod - I haven't examined the possible mods for power plants yet, to be fair - but that one sounds like it could let you use a smaller class powerplant, saving weight and improving jump range, something that's no joke when comparing a 8A and 7A powerplant.
Personally ENG recharge is always more than plenty with a max-size capacitor, save for a few ships like the Imp. Courier; SYS recharge at worst needs 1 - 1.8/s, the main reason to have pips in SYS is for the damage resistance buff; so the capacitor thing sounds fine to me.
I just do not understand this comment. There is absolutely no need to chase ships or upgrades for end game. The end game is what ever you make it to be, basically there isn't one. My main ship is a Cobra. It is just as viable to play in the game as the Sidewinder or Anaconda upgraded or not.
8A produces 36 MW base, 7A produces 30 MW
overcharged power plant 5 gives +8% to +29%. A median increase of 18.5, and you need at least 20% to get the same power output. If you end up with a full +29% or close, you'll also get 50% less heat efficiency.
That's a big price to pay for a 1 LY jump range increase from the 40 tons between 8A and 7A. Odds are you'll end up with a hotter power plant providing less output than your 8A.
A pricey gamble with 2 Cadmium and 2 Pharmaceutical Isolators each shot.
On the other hand, I could just put a grade 2 Overcharge on the 8A power plant, and get somewhere between 1 and 11% extra power from it. So I get up to 40 MW from the power plant now, with only 20% less heat efficiency, but I'm gonna eat severe penalties on the secondary effects.
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Greetings Commanders.
You may remember recently that we shared some plans and changes that will be making their way to our next point release (2.1.05) as a direct response to your feedback, thank you again.
You can read the full post here. But as a reminder, the changes included are...
- Adjusting the way the surface scanner works to allow you to see what materials are available from any given planet. This should make locating materials far easier.
- Making a number of changes to the lowest level blueprints. This includes improving the positive effects of low level upgrade results as well as reducing the cost and simplifying the materials needed.
- Increasing the number of units you get for each instance of a material you find. This means instead of getting one unit of a material, you will get multiple units of that material. This will allow you to increase the number of attempts at each Engineer.
- Increasing the number of materials spawned when surface mining. Again, to make the process easier and the materials easier to gather.
- The likelihood of finding rare materials in these instances will also be increased, meaning it will be easier to use higher level blueprints.
- And we will be reviewing the balance and locations of non-planet salvage and reviewing the possible USS locations for each material
Ahead of this update we wanted to share the rebalancing that has been done to the materials required for blueprints to give you information ahead of time so that those of you searching for materials can factor this into your collecting and gameplay.
You can see a full list of the new blueprints requirements that will be added in the next point update (2.1.05) by downloading it from the link below.
http://hosting.zaonce.net/community/newsletter/blueprints_requirements.xls
This point release is still being finalised and we’re hoping to give more details on the exact date in the next couple of weeks.
Thanks again for your continued support and patience.
Fly safe Commanders.
Thanks for the update Zac! This should greatly improve Engineer focused gameplay.
That's why I put the word in quotes. It's not an end game in the traditional sense, but shares many commonalities (e.g. the gear with the highest stats).
If such a degree of randomization for modules and weapons was so critical to this game, it's a wonder how it's survived since it's first alpha in 2013.
When this sort of thing started seeping it's way into all sorts of gaming, I did try it, but I never enjoyed it. I've even maxed out some ships in Engineers with all maximum grade good rolls and I still hate it.
I just don't understand what was wrong with fixed stats anything. People seemed to enjoy fixed stats vehicles and equipment in games for the past couple of decades, unless everybody was actually secretly miserable that their rocket launcher in Quake deathmatch didn't have the chance to do 68% more damage or their AIM-120 in DCS could be modified to get 39% more range than their wingmate's.
But then people are overjoyed to have things like microtransaction-locked loot boxes and random card loot in twitch FPS like BOPSIII.
I admit the possibility that I'm at fault for disliking things like that, maybe being unwilling to adapt, but at the very least I wish I could get an explanation for why we absolutely need the randomness when people were seemingly fine without it for so long.
When this sort of thing started seeping it's way into all sorts of gaming, I did try it, but I never enjoyed it. I've even maxed out some ships in Engineers with all maximum grade good rolls and I still hate it.
I just don't understand what was wrong with fixed stats anything. People seemed to enjoy fixed stats vehicles and equipment in games for the past couple of decades, unless everybody was actually secretly miserable that their rocket launcher in Quake deathmatch didn't have the chance to do 68% more damage or their AIM-120 in DCS could be modified to get 39% more range than their wingmate's.
But then people are overjoyed to have things like microtransaction-locked loot boxes and random card loot in twitch FPS like BOPSIII.
I admit the possibility that I'm at fault for disliking things like that, maybe being unwilling to adapt, but at the very least I wish I could get an explanation for why we absolutely need the randomness when people were seemingly fine without it for so long.
Ever since the engineers were introduced people wanted to use them for their own reasons because that's why we have them. Now FDEV is making the engineers more accessible to EVERYONE by eliminating the frustrating grind to an extent so why are some people mad? I welcome these changes now all I have to deal with is the whole rng thing and that by itself is an handful.
G'day all,
defiantly need somewhere to store these materials awarded for cargo missions as they are taking up valuable cargo space, its a shame to sell them off to accept a larger cargo, but I need the money to buy a bigger ship. Please ED give me the ability to store these items I may need later to mod my ship in other than the cargo hold.
yours aye
D38
defiantly need somewhere to store these materials awarded for cargo missions as they are taking up valuable cargo space, its a shame to sell them off to accept a larger cargo, but I need the money to buy a bigger ship. Please ED give me the ability to store these items I may need later to mod my ship in other than the cargo hold.
yours aye
D38
I didn't know about the other tradeoffs, but still, the difference can be quite a lot more than 1 LY (and that in itself can make a big difference).
Plus, some ships are super sensitive to extra tonnage as it relates to jump range - take the Imperial Courier for instance, or the Hauler as an extreme case.
So it can depend greatly upon the ship, I suppose.
A pricey gamble with 2 Cadmium and 2 Pharmaceutical Isolators each shot.
Honestly I don't know what the deal is with secondary effects though, I wasn't even aware til just now that there were any secondary effects on anything besides weapons....
Fixed stats means more min-maxing which ultimately results in people having the same load out.
It doesn't affect games with rock-paper-scissors balance among units and weapons. If everybody has the same loadout, it's a failure on the part of the game to provide a reason for different loadouts. Games have managed fine for decades this way, even Elite Dangerous itself long ago.
The PvP experience I had in Elite in late alpha and early beta was fine. One example is getting jumped by an Eagle while flying a Cobra. My shields were down before I could react, by a ship more nimble than mine who was already behind me. I knew that the Eagle was more nimble than my Cobra, but my Cobra was faster, so I ran straight away. I got out of weapons range until my shields recharged and then used fast long slash attacks to defeat that player-flown Eagle. I could formulate this plan because I knew the Cobra was faster and less nimble than the Eagle. If there were two Eagles, they could cover each other and make my slash attacks far less effective. If I had committed to a slow turn fight, the Eagle would have defeated me. Equipment played less of a role than tactics based off of known capabilities.
If that Eagle were both more agile and faster than my Cobra, that fight would not have occurred, I would not have been able to come up with a plan on the spot for how to deal with the situation with the known upsides and downsides of these ships.
Later on, I was destroyed by a pair of well flown player Sidewinders for my hubris thinking the Cobra could handle both of them. That also felt pretty fair because I was outflown. The stats were the same, and I would have approached that situation differently with the same equipment, which is more interesting, tactile and satisfying than instead feeling obliged to invest a week collecting materials and hoping for good rolls on equipment, concentrating on brute force.
It's been a non-issue for me in Elite ever since then because I gave up. The insane power creep between ships and equipment, the SCB issues, and Engineers only amplifies something already made bad by these elements, but the randomization of stats on engineers does effect non-combat roles as well, which is an issue.
An expedition to visit sparse areas of the galaxy will be limited by the shortest jumping ship. If the minimum requirement for jump distance can't be met by a pilot due to not being able to get a good enough roll at Farseer, it's frustrating, and having the roll even be a thing has added nothing but negativity to the game.
On a side note, games which are based around randomization and dice rolls, like DnD, are run by GMs who are encouraged to smooth over extreme bad luck and good luck with the rolls to make sure the players are having a good time. Computers may have rules to prevent the extremes from happening (or be less likely), but they can heartlessly feed a player a lot of bad luck. The randomization needs some responsibility. A lot of roguelikes can play out this way, but may roguelikes (like FTL) are very short games and usually have an alternative form of progression like ship unlocks, or at the very least are designed so that losing is fun.
The PvP experience I had in Elite in late alpha and early beta was fine. One example is getting jumped by an Eagle while flying a Cobra. My shields were down before I could react, by a ship more nimble than mine who was already behind me. I knew that the Eagle was more nimble than my Cobra, but my Cobra was faster, so I ran straight away. I got out of weapons range until my shields recharged and then used fast long slash attacks to defeat that player-flown Eagle. I could formulate this plan because I knew the Cobra was faster and less nimble than the Eagle. If there were two Eagles, they could cover each other and make my slash attacks far less effective. If I had committed to a slow turn fight, the Eagle would have defeated me. Equipment played less of a role than tactics based off of known capabilities.
If that Eagle were both more agile and faster than my Cobra, that fight would not have occurred, I would not have been able to come up with a plan on the spot for how to deal with the situation with the known upsides and downsides of these ships.
Later on, I was destroyed by a pair of well flown player Sidewinders for my hubris thinking the Cobra could handle both of them. That also felt pretty fair because I was outflown. The stats were the same, and I would have approached that situation differently with the same equipment, which is more interesting, tactile and satisfying than instead feeling obliged to invest a week collecting materials and hoping for good rolls on equipment, concentrating on brute force.
It's been a non-issue for me in Elite ever since then because I gave up. The insane power creep between ships and equipment, the SCB issues, and Engineers only amplifies something already made bad by these elements, but the randomization of stats on engineers does effect non-combat roles as well, which is an issue.
An expedition to visit sparse areas of the galaxy will be limited by the shortest jumping ship. If the minimum requirement for jump distance can't be met by a pilot due to not being able to get a good enough roll at Farseer, it's frustrating, and having the roll even be a thing has added nothing but negativity to the game.
On a side note, games which are based around randomization and dice rolls, like DnD, are run by GMs who are encouraged to smooth over extreme bad luck and good luck with the rolls to make sure the players are having a good time. Computers may have rules to prevent the extremes from happening (or be less likely), but they can heartlessly feed a player a lot of bad luck. The randomization needs some responsibility. A lot of roguelikes can play out this way, but may roguelikes (like FTL) are very short games and usually have an alternative form of progression like ship unlocks, or at the very least are designed so that losing is fun.
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But how do you define "highest stats"?
My "endgame" is taking the ships I have and customizing them to my tastes. I have already the only ships I care about. I don't need or want more.
With Engineers, I can now buy a second Courier and customize it to be a very different ship than the one I already have. That's fun for me. I can tweak, and tinker, and get exactly the ship I want. Before Engineers, well, once I had the ships I wanted, there was no way for me to improve. There was nothing left for me to buy.
I'm enjoying Engineers. That isn't to say it's perfect, or that some adjustments aren't needed, but I do think the adjustments we've been shown are too much.
Chasing the thing you want makes it all the sweeter when you get it. If it's too easy, it becomes meaningless.
As far as the randomization goes, I do think the range of possible results is too wide at times. The oft-cited G5 Increase FSD Range is a good example. The range of optimal mass increase is enormous, and rolling a G5 Increase FSD Range and getting a 14% optimal mass increase pretty much feels like FD giving you the finger. I understand the reasoning behind randomized results, but a G5 increase should always be at least a decent mod... and 14% optimal mass increase is not.
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Not really. End game generally means you get to play something else at the end of the game that no one else can because they don't have the top level / weapons like raids in WoW or Lotro. That is traditional end level content.
In ED there is none. You can start of in a sidewinder or eagle and play the game just in those ships for the rest of the time and able to do the same stuff that an Annaconda or cutter can do. It really doesn't bear any resemblance.
Higher stats doesn't mean end game, it just means bigger weapons and/or a bigger ship and that is it.
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Big thanks to you Zac! It is great update, no doubts!
Don't listen to people who want it harder for everyone with second season. They don't understand the priciples of enjoyment with the game.
btw, I have many ships waiting for upgarde, but have only 2 upgrades since start of 2.1. it was ridiculous before. Good luck and if it possible please pay more attention to PowerPlay thing. It is not good at this moment too..
o7
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Please tell me which ship that is that gets more than 1 LY out of downsizing the power plant by 1, I've tried a few now and it's usually around 0.8 LY
You name the Courier and the Hauler. The Courier only gains 0.7 LY jump range when you downsize to 3A power plant, and the Hauler actually can only carry a class 2 power plant.
It's not on inara, so you have to look at a blueprint in game.
Top right corner, there's a red and a blue bar indicating secondary effects (or side effects).
These make little sense, such as "oh the mass actually went up" but the main theme is that grade 1 has no side effects at all, grade 2 has a big red bar for very negative side effects and grade 5 has a big blue bar for extremely positive side effects
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Bit of confirmation here that I've added to the OP. We should've posted this earlier for clarity... sorry if it causes any trouble!
EDIT: The information in this sheet shows changes to the materials needed in blueprints. These are not the complete blueprints, you will still need commodities for rank 2 blueprints and above.
EDIT: The information in this sheet shows changes to the materials needed in blueprints. These are not the complete blueprints, you will still need commodities for rank 2 blueprints and above.