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While waiting for VR to mature
- Thread starter Globusdiablo
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I had the same thoughts, then i tried an HMD... I will never play Elite without VR anymore. But you are right, that this a beginning and the HMDs need to mature.
Get an EDTracker, then when you want to dip your toes in VR:
ED + Recent Android Phone + RiftCat + Cardboard + EDTracker + OpenTrack = 85% of the current seated-mode HMD experience.
(I play with a Vive and a GTX 970, and have an EDTracker, and Nexus 5 for the above poor man's VR setup, so I assert that I know what I'm talking about).
ED + Recent Android Phone + RiftCat + Cardboard + EDTracker + OpenTrack = 85% of the current seated-mode HMD experience.
(I play with a Vive and a GTX 970, and have an EDTracker, and Nexus 5 for the above poor man's VR setup, so I assert that I know what I'm talking about).
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Regarding EDTracker. From what I understand, it doesn't support the z axis (being able to zoom by leaning forward), can you confirm this?
My suggestion would be to find someone who has ED and a Rift and actually try it. Yes, it's flawed: it has god rays, resolution could be better. But when you put it on, and you're sat in the cockpit of your favourite ship, you get a different appreciation for the scale of the game. You're in a dogfight and you find you have much better spatial awareness; you're leaning and craning your neck to follow your mark as you pitch and roll to keep on their tail. It completely changes the experience, and it doesn't take long to forget about the low resolution.
I think VR in this game will come into its own when multicrew is implemented, especially if Frontier are able to hook your avatar's movements up to your own (even if it's just your body and head pose).
I think VR in this game will come into its own when multicrew is implemented, especially if Frontier are able to hook your avatar's movements up to your own (even if it's just your body and head pose).
Understandable based on the negatives of how ED performs on the Vive. Indeed, the negativity is justified and I can only hope the devs address the issues soon. However, ED with some tweaking is playable and in VR it's far more immersive and enjoyable than a monitor or TV screen. It's not just ED, it's all the other games too (well the ones I like). Yes, with the Vive, there is some faffing about to do with settings, base stations etc. But it's worth it for the experience. Indeed, the image is not crystal clear and/or real life. But I think this present generation of VR has nudged things forward to make VR at home a viable alternative to a TV or monitor. Bear in mind that this generation is probably 3rd generation. There was attempts to bring VR to the consumer market back in the 80s/90s and I'd imagine HTC and Oculus have built on the lessons learned from the previous attempts.
Having used VR for the last 2 weeks, I can't go back to playing games on my monitor or TV.
It doesn't have any kind of positional tracking. It supports rotation in XYZ axes, but not translation in any axis. Pocketmoon had an experimental EDTracker client software branch that blended a webcam used for positional tracking with the EDTracker's IMUs. It might be possible to do this in Opentrack as well, but I didn't try it out, because:
What you can do: in Opentrack, map the rotation inputs to small amounts of translation outputs. So as you look (rotate) down or over your shoulder, the avatar's head translates forward or left or right a small amount, inferring a head translation from the rotation.
I agree. But the fact is that very few people actually have a Rift and Elite: Dangerous. I am the only one I know in person who plays Elite: Dangerous. Noone I know actually has an HMD of any kind.
Oculus has made no effort to engage with the European market (yet), so the logical choice for Europeans interested in warranty and support functions for their HMD will be the Vive.
Following VR forums can leave the impression that E: D and HMD is a common thing. In fact it is very rare and still cutting edge.
I will say this with relationship to the original post (waiting for VR to mature). I know of somebody who planned on building a new PC, but as he had seen there was a new graphics card coming through, he decided to wait. Then, when that new card came out, something else was seen to be in the pipeline. Two years later he STILL hadn't built his PC!
Sounds like me...
The things that would worry me on that setup:
Latency.
The more significant screen-door effect.
The lack of positional tracking.
The (usually) smaller FoV.
My headset-for-phone should arrive tomorrow. I'm not getting it for ED (I have a rift); but may try that just to see what it's like.
I would have used the analogy "pimping out your bicycle when you are considering a car"
My cousin, who is a professional programmer, normally skips a generation of IT components. Typically he builds himself a new system every 2 years or so. That way his system is always current enough to handle most things, but not an on-going drain on his finances. He is going to wait until VR has a higher resolution, but (after trying my system when I had the DK2) he can see the attraction.
Compared to the DK2, it *does* have a higher resolution.
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Back in 2006, I bought a Logitech Momo wheel for my PC, so I could play driving games etc. It was okay but did'n't scratch the itch. I haven't used it in 8 years.
I ended up buying a Birkin S3 roadster. (link in sig) Check, itch definitely scratched.
So when VR was approaching, I was looking around for the TrackIR options etc. Soooo glad I stayed away from them - as once I got in the Rift, there was no going back. I was releived didn't need glasses (a little long-sighted), the god rays weren't bad (YMMV) and the resolution, well, yes that can mature, but nothing beats the I can look around and actually feel like I'm in the cockpit.
Last night I landed on a really, really rough icy moon looking for some rare materials (Yttrium, Niobium). I got a decent signal on the scanner, and trundled over (up/down god it was rough; lots of skinny linear ridges. I was using my SRV thrusters more than the wheels
Getting closer to the signal, it separated into two and I headed for the stronger/closer one. Accidentally crested a ridge and found out there was no further ridges, just a nearly-sheer drop of about 200m - a cliff I hadn't really anticipated. Yikes. The SRV slid, too far, and there was no stopping.
I just about fell out of my chair, it felt like I was facing down a yawning chasm, the bottom of a huge ditch almost out of sight, with my SRV already pretty much just a missile at over 40 clicks on the speedo, half off the ground/cliff and heading down at about a 60 degree angle. Saw the material rock go past half-way down and then clipped a big rock with the right hand wheel and it spun me like a top.
"Hull Integrity Compromised" (no s$#t!) lost 25% hull and came to rest a few moments later facing the cliff at the bottom. My heart was pounding - I wasn't actually sure what happens if you kill the SRV when you're 16,000LY out from the bubble?
I looked up at the cliff, peering out between the roof slats, thanking my lucky stars I didn't end up upside down or worse.
Rift low(er) resolution be damned. Screendoor be damned. God rays be damned. They're all insignificant when faced with that visceral experience.
No way are you going to get that on TrackIR or on a monitor. No way.
I ended up buying a Birkin S3 roadster. (link in sig) Check, itch definitely scratched.
So when VR was approaching, I was looking around for the TrackIR options etc. Soooo glad I stayed away from them - as once I got in the Rift, there was no going back. I was releived didn't need glasses (a little long-sighted), the god rays weren't bad (YMMV) and the resolution, well, yes that can mature, but nothing beats the I can look around and actually feel like I'm in the cockpit.
Last night I landed on a really, really rough icy moon looking for some rare materials (Yttrium, Niobium). I got a decent signal on the scanner, and trundled over (up/down god it was rough; lots of skinny linear ridges. I was using my SRV thrusters more than the wheels
Getting closer to the signal, it separated into two and I headed for the stronger/closer one. Accidentally crested a ridge and found out there was no further ridges, just a nearly-sheer drop of about 200m - a cliff I hadn't really anticipated. Yikes. The SRV slid, too far, and there was no stopping.
I just about fell out of my chair, it felt like I was facing down a yawning chasm, the bottom of a huge ditch almost out of sight, with my SRV already pretty much just a missile at over 40 clicks on the speedo, half off the ground/cliff and heading down at about a 60 degree angle. Saw the material rock go past half-way down and then clipped a big rock with the right hand wheel and it spun me like a top.
"Hull Integrity Compromised" (no s$#t!) lost 25% hull and came to rest a few moments later facing the cliff at the bottom. My heart was pounding - I wasn't actually sure what happens if you kill the SRV when you're 16,000LY out from the bubble?
I looked up at the cliff, peering out between the roof slats, thanking my lucky stars I didn't end up upside down or worse.
Rift low(er) resolution be damned. Screendoor be damned. God rays be damned. They're all insignificant when faced with that visceral experience.
No way are you going to get that on TrackIR or on a monitor. No way.
I have the TrackIR and I must say it works pretty well (though I can not compare it to other trackers, or even VR since i have not tried other hardware).
With the software you can configure the sensitivity of the tracker. For example; you can create a deadzone, you can have 1:1 tracking, you can have accelerated tracking, etc.
I prefer these general settings:
- When I look at the edge of my screen (left/right), i want my head ingame to rotate enough to see 90 degrees to the left/right on the edge of the screen (so about 60 degrees of ingame head rotation i think).
- Up and down i prefer more like 1:1 ~ 1:1,5.
- I disable x,y,z movement.
- I disable rotation of the head (so only up/down and left/right rotation enabled).
- When doing simple flying (long patches of supercruise combined with a lot of hyperspace jumps), i prefer to disable the tracking for a while with the press of 1 button to continue in non-tracking-modus (one does get a bit tired after a couple of hours, perhaps it is the same with VR?).
Ingame I notice a small bit of a blur when rotating my head fast, though i think that is due to my 60hz monitor (the hardware renders 90~120fps at maximum settings). Personally I don't mind it since I'm not swinging my head around much; just easy movements. The best part in the game is to have to menu's pop-up when you look at them, that really gives the game its Sci-fi feeling. As I said before I can not compare VR with tracking software, though I sincerely believe VR is at least as big a step forward compare to tracking-only as the step from non-tracking to tracking-only. VR is the future, and I'm sure to get into VR when/if the next generation arrives (in matter of fact, each week I have to convince myself not to buy it and to wait a bit longer).
I hope this helps you with your choice. Both tracking and VR add a lot to the game.
Fly safe commander o7
Drumatiko
PS. i bought TrackIR aprox 5 years ago, and never regretted it.
With the software you can configure the sensitivity of the tracker. For example; you can create a deadzone, you can have 1:1 tracking, you can have accelerated tracking, etc.
I prefer these general settings:
- When I look at the edge of my screen (left/right), i want my head ingame to rotate enough to see 90 degrees to the left/right on the edge of the screen (so about 60 degrees of ingame head rotation i think).
- Up and down i prefer more like 1:1 ~ 1:1,5.
- I disable x,y,z movement.
- I disable rotation of the head (so only up/down and left/right rotation enabled).
- When doing simple flying (long patches of supercruise combined with a lot of hyperspace jumps), i prefer to disable the tracking for a while with the press of 1 button to continue in non-tracking-modus (one does get a bit tired after a couple of hours, perhaps it is the same with VR?).
Ingame I notice a small bit of a blur when rotating my head fast, though i think that is due to my 60hz monitor (the hardware renders 90~120fps at maximum settings). Personally I don't mind it since I'm not swinging my head around much; just easy movements. The best part in the game is to have to menu's pop-up when you look at them, that really gives the game its Sci-fi feeling. As I said before I can not compare VR with tracking software, though I sincerely believe VR is at least as big a step forward compare to tracking-only as the step from non-tracking to tracking-only. VR is the future, and I'm sure to get into VR when/if the next generation arrives (in matter of fact, each week I have to convince myself not to buy it and to wait a bit longer
).I hope this helps you with your choice. Both tracking and VR add a lot to the game.
Fly safe commander o7
Drumatiko
PS. i bought TrackIR aprox 5 years ago, and never regretted it.
Drumatiko is right - TrackIR is great if you don't want to jump into VR now. Its a great 1/2 way point, and up to a few months ago was the hands down best immersion-gain you could buy (before, say, the DK2). But when you do finally get a HMD, that TrackIR will just be desk clutter. Its only advantage is that you can use it with your higher resolution monitor.
Just think - Drumatiko has had TrackIR for 5+ years, more than enough to have made the purchase worthwhile. When you do get VR later, you'll suddenly wonder why you didn't get VR now.
VR is much more natural in that you automatically know where to look, and the sound all matches up perfectly. You can move about, stand up even. The positional tracking is absolutely spot on. On both Vive and Rift.
Sneaking a peak out of your cockpit side window by leaning out of your chair just to see a neighbouring ship land on its pad nearby, or checking exactly where under your SRV is that material rock you just blasted loose; these sorts of motions are just second nature in VR. You can look past your toes at the ground, keep an eye on the ship's shadow for landing, move slightly and block out that bright sun using a cockpit strut just as you would in a car.
Everyone's different in VR as far as getting tired is concerned, and being affected by VR motion sickness. And as I found, its not tied to you necessarily being vulnerable to motion sickness in real life. Some do, some don't, but what is clear is after getting used to it, you'll be able to VR for hours at a time and
Be warned - system requirements for VR will not drop; they will rise with each new generation of VR HMD. As resolution rises, plus eye tracking, facial tracking.. all this will cost cpu horsepower, and of course more graphics horesepower.
Developers will also exchange the gains to be had in software from foveated rendering, and nVidia's in-driver SMP for additinal detail. Some VR titles are already over sampling for additional detail.
Developers will want to close the detail gap between VR and monitor-centric titles.
I'm not trying to sell you a HMD here; this is just my honest to goodness experience with it. Yes, its lower resolution. You see through it. God rays, not an issue for me. I can even leave my glasses on the desk, no need for them in the Rift. YMMV of course, and 'you'd be a mug' as we say here in Oz not to be a tad skeptical.
But do it, its that good.
Just think - Drumatiko has had TrackIR for 5+ years, more than enough to have made the purchase worthwhile. When you do get VR later, you'll suddenly wonder why you didn't get VR now.
VR is much more natural in that you automatically know where to look, and the sound all matches up perfectly. You can move about, stand up even. The positional tracking is absolutely spot on. On both Vive and Rift.
Sneaking a peak out of your cockpit side window by leaning out of your chair just to see a neighbouring ship land on its pad nearby, or checking exactly where under your SRV is that material rock you just blasted loose; these sorts of motions are just second nature in VR. You can look past your toes at the ground, keep an eye on the ship's shadow for landing, move slightly and block out that bright sun using a cockpit strut just as you would in a car.
Everyone's different in VR as far as getting tired is concerned, and being affected by VR motion sickness. And as I found, its not tied to you necessarily being vulnerable to motion sickness in real life. Some do, some don't, but what is clear is after getting used to it, you'll be able to VR for hours at a time and
Be warned - system requirements for VR will not drop; they will rise with each new generation of VR HMD. As resolution rises, plus eye tracking, facial tracking.. all this will cost cpu horsepower, and of course more graphics horesepower.
Developers will also exchange the gains to be had in software from foveated rendering, and nVidia's in-driver SMP for additinal detail. Some VR titles are already over sampling for additional detail.
Developers will want to close the detail gap between VR and monitor-centric titles.
I'm not trying to sell you a HMD here; this is just my honest to goodness experience with it. Yes, its lower resolution. You see through it. God rays, not an issue for me. I can even leave my glasses on the desk, no need for them in the Rift. YMMV of course, and 'you'd be a mug' as we say here in Oz not to be a tad skeptical.
But do it, its that good.
I used Trackir for years. as a flightsim and ED fan it was way better than not having it. I even added 3d glasses to the mix to quench my thirst for immersion. I was pretty happy with these things, until my CV1 arrived. The tracking (360 degrees) and sense of scale has changed everything. This experience is light years ahead of those things in everything I fly.
The graphics in games that have added VR after the fact like ED and DCS need some work. The best looking graphics of new titles written from the ground up can be quite good even if a lot of early stuff is too short and over priced.
If your in the EU and can't get a first hand look at VR, you are wise to wait a bit until you can. Production is just ramping up on these new devices and by the holiday season, I expect you will get a chance to try it.
That said, if you throw down money on a head tracking system now, then get to try VR, you might be sorry.
As far as I can tell from reading in this forum and others, some people are unhappy with first gen resolution. Some find the novelty wearing off after a couple of weeks. The vast majority of either HMD set say it is a game changer and are extremely happy to have pulled the trigger. Your mileage may vary.
The graphics in games that have added VR after the fact like ED and DCS need some work. The best looking graphics of new titles written from the ground up can be quite good even if a lot of early stuff is too short and over priced.
If your in the EU and can't get a first hand look at VR, you are wise to wait a bit until you can. Production is just ramping up on these new devices and by the holiday season, I expect you will get a chance to try it.
That said, if you throw down money on a head tracking system now, then get to try VR, you might be sorry.
As far as I can tell from reading in this forum and others, some people are unhappy with first gen resolution. Some find the novelty wearing off after a couple of weeks. The vast majority of either HMD set say it is a game changer and are extremely happy to have pulled the trigger. Your mileage may vary.
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I will say that now the Oculus Rift CV1 is shipping within a few days of being ordered. I ordered mine on a Friday this month, it arrived on the following Wednesday.
There is now a company who do prescription lenses for both the Rift and the Vive, which can also have blue protection (blue light of a certain frequency can affect your sleep pattern). Here is the link;
https://vr-lens-lab.com/blueguard-vr/
There is now a company who do prescription lenses for both the Rift and the Vive, which can also have blue protection (blue light of a certain frequency can affect your sleep pattern). Here is the link;
https://vr-lens-lab.com/blueguard-vr/
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You might see a drop in recommended specs ( most likely will stay the same with no big raise) for VR next generation due to eye tracking that is currently being worked on.
Because the way the human eyes work, you only see a sharp image when you look directly at things, and then general blobs of shape in your peripheral vision. With eye tracking the GPU only has to render in high res what you look at and can render the rest of the scene in lower res.
To put in into perspective, if the Gen 1 devices had that technology, you would not need a 970/980 for min rec specs, you would have needed a 680 instead. However the reason why it was not included is they are already pricey as of this time period and adding it at the last moment would have pushed both Rift and vibe past $1000 easily as well at what we have right now is still not fast enough as what would be required.
http://uploadvr.com/oculus-is-working-on-eye-tracking-technology-for-next-generation-of-vr/
Eye tracking question at 20:40 in following video:
[video=youtube;8CRdRc8CcGY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CRdRc8CcGY&feature=youtu.be[/video]
Because the way the human eyes work, you only see a sharp image when you look directly at things, and then general blobs of shape in your peripheral vision. With eye tracking the GPU only has to render in high res what you look at and can render the rest of the scene in lower res.
To put in into perspective, if the Gen 1 devices had that technology, you would not need a 970/980 for min rec specs, you would have needed a 680 instead. However the reason why it was not included is they are already pricey as of this time period and adding it at the last moment would have pushed both Rift and vibe past $1000 easily as well at what we have right now is still not fast enough as what would be required.
http://uploadvr.com/oculus-is-working-on-eye-tracking-technology-for-next-generation-of-vr/
Eye tracking question at 20:40 in following video:
[video=youtube;8CRdRc8CcGY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CRdRc8CcGY&feature=youtu.be[/video]