Horizons Fan boy here admitting huge issues...

[Terry Bruge-Hiplo]

Feeling what you're saying there OP, and some of the replies too.

I watched the Lavecon FD Q&A last night and it was very encouraging to hear what they had to say about the Engineers and changes that are coming. It's here if you're interested/haven't seen it https://www.twitch.tv/laveradio/v/78330489 - starts around 4:44:20.

 

[SlackR]

Feeling what you're saying there OP, and some of the replies too.

I watched the Lavecon FD Q&A last night and it was very encouraging to hear what they had to say about the Engineers and changes that are coming. It's here if you're interested/haven't seen it https://www.twitch.tv/laveradio/v/78330489 - starts around 4:44:20.

I am ever optimistic that they will come good, but still worry how many players are turning their backs on the game because Frontier rushed mechanics out of the door that were either lacking or made no sense. Saying we got it wrong is the right and noble thing to do, but some things just shouldn't have been allowed to happen. I really wish we could've gone the Star Citizen funding root and never have had to leave the security and non-accountability of the Alpha stage... We never really left anyway!

 

[Otherwhere]

The idea of the Engineers is actually pretty cool. It's the implementation of them that has been kind of sucky.

I understand that they wanted to make it so players can have unique mods that no other player is likely to get. Yours is special and rare. Cool! But the way they went about really didn't appeal to me, and so I have passed on purchasing the add-on.

I'm keeping in mind that Elite Dangerous isn't a finished product. The stuff that feels slapped on may be things they simply haven't developed as fully as they'd like.

I'm more concerned with the AI aggressiveness than anything else at the moment because that does impact me, where the Engineers don't so much.

 

[Malryc]

+1 OP
I am primarily an explorer so a lot of the Engineers stuff hasn't applied to me just yet (I'll get to it... Just one more jump...).

However, I think you hit it on the head by saying that they need to SET GOALS and try to get there. They may rethink some of the key mechanics.

 

[foebits]

The game is designed around long progression times. The game is designed around taking years for the average player. This game is not trying to an instant gratification game like all the others. Many people find it fun and very rewarding compared to games where you get stuff with minimal effort. If you don't want to stack missions or whatever else you consider cheating. Don't do it. Simple. Don't hold onto to cargo for engineers for weeks, get the materials first then get the cargo the once you have everything else.

Meanwhile i'm getting interdicted and shot at for my limpets along with all of the problems, and more, that OP has mentioned.
Your answer of "don't like it don't do it" is a pathetic cop-out that does in no way address or even acknowledge the problem and you know it. The game has been pushed closer and closer to "play the way we want you to play, not how you like to play" and we are getting sick of it.

"blaze your own trail" has never been so hollow.

 

[Brewster0101]

Same here, since Engineers update I've played about 20 hours and I can't be bothered anymore.

So many things broken, so many things that mean nothing. Boring long missions, missions that can't be done, ranking that barely moves, data collection that doesn't serve much point.

It's all got too big and too empty.

Even seeing two capital class ships going toe to toe is boring, because neither one ever wins.

 

[xondk]

Same here, since Engineers update I've played about 20 hours and I can't be bothered anymore.

So many things broken, so many things that mean nothing. Boring long missions, missions that can't be done, ranking that barely moves, data collection that doesn't serve much point.

It's all got too big and too empty.

Even seeing two capital class ships going toe to toe is boring, because neither one ever wins.

Which is a problem most games have, it is easy to get worn out of a game once things begin seeming to repeat, and it is virtually impossible to prevent that in games, it all depends on what goal you set yourself, if your goal is "get the biggest ship" and once you got it? then what, same with MMO's like WoW (in its current state) I never understood how people could continually do the whole get loot, so you can get more loot, because it proved 'something'? that you had done a difficult dungeon or such, that kind of achievement I can understand that was what it used to be, but once you've done that, it also becomes repeat. Especially after they significantly lowered the skill required to do raids and such. Yet millions play still, though it is losing subscriptions, its been running for ages. I played when it originally launched, but the easier they made it, the more it lost its appeal and I went elsewhere. To me, WoW now caters mostly to the instant gratification crowd and of course those that simply enjoy the Warcraft world.

 

[Kira Mikamy]

i play untill day one.
Now the game have two big "group" of player: The one who farm billions with exploit and the one who tried to farm billions with exploit.

Imho, if the frontier ask: Hey guys! do you want a reset about player ship, money and rep? i say YES GOD. PLEASE!

And i have billion, i have rank for corvette and cutter, have all ships, all pp module, a custom ships with all engineer modification with rank 4 or 5, but that's because i've start first.

Remember firts time when Roigo out? when smuggling missions doesnt fail after a scan, in a single night i farm 1 bilion with a phyton, npc was easy to avoid.
Or just remember the incredibly bounty the player have after game launch? Kill one player give you 500milions
Or simply remember the CZ exploit when capital ships farm for you ships, you just need to have some turret with fire at will.
About ranking, do you remember planetary mission when with a single sidey you can farm imperial mission shooting at generator with one small pulse laser, or better in federation simply stack charity.


I've all, this doesn't means i'm a skilled player, of course, but i've really don't have any kind of problem during pve.
I think a ships like Anaconda, or Cutter, Corvette, have to required years of gaming before reach.
Now a new player have to use exploit in Ceos or similar to make credit, there's no sense in the 99% of system here in Elite, CG as well you may farm a week for 15milion when a single cargo of biowaste in ceos give you 10milion (except about roleplay who community do)


But now it's late because theres a lot of player like me. We need to do all a clear salve and frontier have to remove exploit of any kind, but it's an utopic vision i think.

 

[xondk]

I think a ships like Anaconda, or Cutter, Corvette, have to required years of gaming before reach.
Now a new player have to use exploit in Ceos or similar to make credit, there's no sense in the 99% of system here in Elite, CG as well you may farm a week for 15milion when a single cargo of biowaste in ceos give you 10milion (except about roleplay who community do)


But now it's late because theres a lot of player like me. We need to do all a clear salve and frontier have to remove exploit of any kind, but it's an utopic vision i think.

Sadly the main problem is progression, I totally agree, unfortunately even now there are people that are upset at how long it takes to get stuff with the loopholes that exist, which is just sad in my book, I enjoy there being a long progression, even if I can't play that much, because something feels actually earned then. But yes, you are also right one of the problems is those that now sit with billions upon billions and nothing to use them on.
And personally I think something needs to be done about that before we get maybe player owned stations and such, because if they are massively expensive it might actually reward those that used old exploits, currently sothis and ceos is not considered exploits though, frankly there's no reason to use them, as once you are allied with a faction you begin getting great paid missions even in normal space.

 

[adrinker]

The game is designed around long progression times. The game is designed around taking years for the average player.

The reason it will take years is that there is a lack of content. I've done the same trade data/black box/data delivery mission so many times that I stop reading the story behind it. I'm not a grinder and I enjoy the game but think that model of forcing progression to a crawl is going to lose player interest in the end, especially when you look at things like the barnacles. These are stories that they are just building on which is why they are so slow. It's like playing D&D with a mute GM.

 

[Para Handy]

The idea of the Engineers is actually pretty cool. It's the implementation of them that has been kind of sucky.

I understand that they wanted to make it so players can have unique mods that no other player is likely to get. Yours is special and rare. Cool! But the way they went about really didn't appeal to me, and so I have passed on purchasing the add-on.

I'm keeping in mind that Elite Dangerous isn't a finished product. The stuff that feels slapped on may be things they simply haven't developed as fully as they'd like.

I'm more concerned with the AI aggressiveness than anything else at the moment because that does impact me, where the Engineers don't so much.

I agree totally with this post.

We were told that "Engineered" modifications would be really rare and that each would have drawbacks (the Vietnam Huey mod was used as a touchstone) but on launch every NPC (just about) was awash with mods and though they addressed this (a bit) the clamouring from players wanting mods has resulted in F D changing things even more.

I hope more thought is put in to future "content" releases instead of this fluid, reactive, poorly implemented feature.


[alien]

 

[Gramma Smith]

I have read through all three pages of this thread and i couldn't agree more about the general assessment of the current state of the game. I rarely log into the game anymore because it is just not "fun". This game is on a death spiral as far as i am concerned and i sadly have stopped playing it because i don't need a second job let alone being bothered by the illogical a.i. system. I am very tired of being forced down a particular play style path that i do not enjoy. It is painfully obvious that the Devs have a very twisted idea of what is actually fun. Guess i will continue to look for that more or less perfect game that at this point i have not discovered.

 

[Niamhy]

I was driving around on a moon earlier, 6th day of multiple-hours-per-day trying to find Arsenic, and i just parked up the SRV and stared at the screen, like "what the hell am I doing? this isn't fun, it's the opposite". So when I read the OP i was like "thank god its not just me".

Seriously, if the devs actually sat down and played this game, from Sidewinder to modded Anaconda, the way that they expect US to play it, then they'd never get any work done, they'd just be grinding all day.

Wait.. that might explain a few things lmao *kidding*

No Man's Sky comes out in a couple of weeks, and i bet a large proportion of ED players are going to go try it out, have a look what all the fuss is about. How many of those players actually come *back* to ED afterwards... well, that depends on Frontier. And Thargoids interdicting you instead of Cobras is a novelty that is going to wear off pretty quickly....

 

[CTCParadox]

People always go on about how the new generation of players just want everything straight away.
For me though I guess I was spoilt growing up on Elite 2 and Frontier: First Encounters where getting into a Panther Clipper didn't take hundreds of hours.

CMDR CTCParadox

 

[Swan Electro]

... The game is designed around taking years for the average player...

As pretty as it is, watching the same jump animation, and hearing "Four Three, Two, One" over and over is not going to hold my attention for years. In fact It's already annoying me. This isn't the first generation of the "Omni" game we're talking about, here. Not even close.

 

[Nerwan]

I was driving around on a moon earlier, 6th day of multiple-hours-per-day trying to find Arsenic

Are you kidding? It took a while to get Pollonium, although I managed to upgrade 4 ships to L5. When they switched to arsenic it was a piece of cake since it's around 5 times more common on a planet surface. I nipped down to a planet which had it (using the new system map feature) and found 20 within an hour.

Personally I think it's very easy to do the upgrades now. I was one of those who did many upgrades with the previous system where it was much harder. I still managed to create 4 PVP ships, but unlike some I'm happy with the changes. I can now get on and do the rest of my fleet and try some different upgrades etc without it taking forever.. I'm also happy that more PVPers are now returning to the game since not all are so willing to grind as I am and I missed having people to fight.

 

[Swan Electro]

This may seem Off topic, but it's not.
Is anyone here Is familiar the work of B.F. Skinner, psychologist?
operant conditioning?
How about the term "Skinner box?"
So, Really quickly....B.F. Skinner discovered that by delivering rewards for actions, animals (including humans) could be conditioned to act in certain ways without stimulus. He also found that varying the occurrence of rewards was the optimal way to condition an action.

Have you ever played a game at length, only to wonder why you had sunk so many hours into it afterwards because you don't remember having all that much fun?
That's because many games are being structured around his concepts. Some notable examples are World of warCraft, Farmville, and Bejeweled. The player will tolerate an amazing amount of tedium for the CHANCE of getting a reward. They aren't having fun, They are just chasing a carrot, but don't notice because they've been conditioned.

I put it to you that Elite Dangerous is so boring for the sake of that very effect. It's Balanced the way it is, to optimize the action/reward response.
Considering Frontier's business behavior, I have no doubt that this game's primary function is that of a skinner box.

 

[Swan Electro]

Heh. you frighten me a little.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Nothing wrong with being a fan and being critical of things.

There are not many real fanboys around here like the term gets thrown around. Most of us have our criticisms of the game. Hell, give me any game, ill find something to be critical about it, but at the same time, still love the game.

The main thing to avoid is stepping over the line to the dark side, and becoming a hater. Those people must live truly miserable lives, being eaten away from the inside by all they hate about the game, yet unable to move on. If you ever feel yourself getting close to that stage, take a break, play something else for a while.

 

[Shar]

Yeah, we tend to forget how much time we are spending in Elite and honestly, what other game wouldn't start to bother us after a thousand hours.

Very true Chris, many players have lost perspective by simply over playing the game. no game no matter how perfect it is can keep a person interested indefinably and when that time comes a person needs to recognize it may not be the games fault. Some unfortunately can not or will not recognize this simple truth and become angry and bitter instead of moving on. I myself experienced this with my last MMO after 3500 hours. My solution with ED has been to limit myself too 10 hours per week, after 2 years i have 600 Hours logged and my internal burnout meter is sitting at about 25% ask yourselves were your heads at.