Horizons Fan boy here admitting huge issues...

[Chris Simon]

Very true Chris, many players have lost perspective by simply over playing the game. no game no matter how perfect it is can keep a person interested indefinably and when that time comes a person needs to recognize it may not be the games fault. Some unfortunately can not or will not recognize this simple truth and become angry and bitter instead of moving on. I myself experienced this with my last MMO after 3500 hours. My solution with ED has been to limit myself too 10 hours per week, after 2 years i have 600 Hours logged and my internal burnout meter is sitting at about 25% ask yourselves were your heads at. https://forums-cdn.frontier.co.uk/images/smilies-frontier/smile.pnghttps://forums-cdn.frontier.co.uk/images/smilies-frontier/mad.png

Exactly. I, too, get tired, sometimes. Or rather... disinterested or unmotivated.. I'd describe it. But unlike the other games - what is so amazing on Elite, for me, though, that my intended breaks in playing never last longer than a week and after that, I'm in it like it was the first month of playing.
When we enjoy the game, we tend to overlook the flaws, yet when we don't the flaws tend to magnify in front of our eyes. But as you say, one can hardly blame it (entirely) on the game itself.

 

[Bobbydylan]

Very true Chris, many players have lost perspective by simply over playing the game. no game no matter how perfect it is can keep a person interested indefinably and when that time comes a person needs to recognize it may not be the games fault. Some unfortunately can not or will not recognize this simple truth and become angry and bitter instead of moving on. I myself experienced this with my last MMO after 3500 hours. My solution with ED has been to limit myself too 10 hours per week, after 2 years i have 600 Hours logged and my internal burnout meter is sitting at about 25% ask yourselves were your heads at. https://forums-cdn.frontier.co.uk/images/smilies-frontier/smile.pnghttps://forums-cdn.frontier.co.uk/images/smilies-frontier/mad.png

Very true. I'm an alpha backer, and have played ED probably more than any other game I've played (I don't MMO). I took a break at the end of last year, when 2.0 landed I played around a little, but left the game world. Came back for the first time last weekend and have been thoroughly enjoying it. The lack of progress towards the ideas in the Development Forum is frustrating, but ED is still a fun game to play.

 

[william1134]

Story with the barnacles... Jeez I completely lost interest in those and those floating alien things. The story is all over the place, no idea what is happening and I can't be bothered to read the HUNDREDS of pages in the canon thread. No thanks! I don't know why such a simple story is taking months and months to complete. Sure some people get a kick out of translating the beeps and so on, but not me.. I just want a game that is fun. I have not really played in more than a few hours in the last few months as every time I try to get back into it, I realise that there has been no real progression in the game.

I bought the LEP and really regret it now.. when I bought it I saw the game was full of hope but in reality it just seems to be completely dead with minimal progression on game development.

I realise I am just adding to the circlejerk with my comments but.. blegh... I just feel terrible about the state of the game and the money I have spent.

The reason it will take years is that there is a lack of content. I've done the same trade data/black box/data delivery mission so many times that I stop reading the story behind it. I'm not a grinder and I enjoy the game but think that model of forcing progression to a crawl is going to lose player interest in the end, especially when you look at things like the barnacles. These are stories that they are just building on which is why they are so slow. It's like playing D&D with a mute GM.

 

[Sidrat]

If the game was so perfect it could be played in the manner of individual players desires. The fact it has to be played so deliberately in many different ways for each individual game mechanic means it's actually not perfect at all.

Grinding for Random outcomes is an affront to the players limited time as well as ignoring a cogent reward/risk/time mechanism. If I loved sea shells so much I'd move to a beach with sea shells on it. I wouldn't expect other people to travel out of their way to get some for me in exchange for a random opportunity to get a 20 pence post card.

For every mechanic FDEV has introduced they've messed it up. They've made it annoying, unfun and more of a bad job that you can't even mitigate by sharing with friends in a reasonable fashion.

 

[Chris Simon]

If the game was so perfect it could be played in the manner of individual players desires. The fact it has to be played so deliberately in many different ways for each individual game mechanic means it's actually not perfect at all.

Grinding for Random outcomes is an affront to the players limited time as well as ignoring a cogent reward/risk/time mechanism. If I loved sea shells so much I'd move to a beach with sea shells on it. I wouldn't expect other people to travel out of their way to get some for me in exchange for a random opportunity to get a 20 pence post card.

For every mechanic FDEV has introduced they've messed it up. They've made it annoying, unfun and more of a bad job that you can't even mitigate by sharing with friends in a reasonable fashion.

And that's just the thing. Everybody enjoys something different in Elite and some other things they find annoying. If you're trying to cater different playstyles at once, you'll never create a perfect game where everyone would like everything. That is against human nature.
Elite will always by definition be seen as grindy and annoying, because to be able to do what you like, you also have to do a couple of things you don't. Some people accept it as a fact and some don't and go here to complain.

The incredibly wide range of complain topics is the proof that this game is actually good. Everyone will hate something but as long as every one of us hates something different, it's fine.
There are, naturally, a couple of things we hate somewhat collectively, and those and only those things should be looked at, optimized and tweaked and if you pay attention those really are the things Frontier focuses on.

 

[Sidrat]

And that's just the thing. Everybody enjoys something different in Elite and some other things they find annoying. If you're trying to cater different playstyles at once, you'll never create a perfect game where everyone would like everything. That is against human nature.
Elite will always by definition be seen as grindy and annoying, because to be able to do what you like, you also have to do a couple of things you don't. Some people accept it as a fact and some don't and go here to complain.

The incredibly wide range of complain topics is the proof that this game is actually good. Everyone will hate something but as long as every one of us hates something different, it's fine.
There are, naturally, a couple of things we hate somewhat collectively, and those and only those things should be looked at, optimized and tweaked and if you pay attention those really are the things Frontier focuses on.

Sadly I'm in the group that can find something wrong with every single aspect of the game, starting from the decision to use the peer to peer structure for an online game. Then the lack of addressing the previous thirty years of advancement in game mechanics, turning Elite Dangerous in to a graphical marvel with very similar mechanics from the 90's. The over reliance of random lottery for many of its game mechanics screams lazy game design. Misunderstanding player psychology also leads to imbalanced and "grindey" risk/reward situations.

There are more, but the only reason I continue to come back to this community forum is the hope that the game can be turned around in to a better experience for the modern gamer.

Now I say that as an Elite Frontier 2 fan that spent countless hours in that universe with the added benefit of being able to re-load and re-try every time I was out piloted and out gunned. Sometimes it was annoying, getting pulled in to combat every ten minutes, but that still happens in Elite Dangerous with the added downside of not having a re-load feature.

 

[Chris Simon]

Yea. Finding something wrong in every aspect of the game is the thing I talked about earlier.
Only one advice, here - Go play or do something else. Life is too short to be wasted on doing things you don't enjoy.

 

[nats]

I am actually for the first time unhappy with the state of the game! Despite changing what I do and how I play I keep coming back to the same conclusion - that the devs aren't logging enough hours actually playing the game and asking themselves ..."is this fun?".

DB and MB need to lock themselves away for a weekend and just play the game they are building... It needs looking at guys.

Been saying this for at least a year now myself. No its not fun, its not playable by the majority of players who want to play for a few light hours on a weekend and have a thrilling time. I cant honestly believe how anyone could be so bored with the game to want to travel 30000 light years to a new civilised bubble on the other side of the galaxy. I mean the Hutton run was mad enough for me I did that twice and that was enough. And yet some people are doing this - more than once in some cases. And Frontier are listening to these people? Madness.

I have indeed been playing other things I haven't played ED 'properly' for at least a year now. It's like a form of endurance as to how long I can stand the repetition! Its really not a great game. I truly hope it improves at some point because I am very sad how its turning out.

 

[Bobbydylan]

And that's just the thing. Everybody enjoys something different in Elite and some other things they find annoying. If you're trying to cater different playstyles at once, you'll never create a perfect game where everyone would like everything. That is against human nature.
Elite will always by definition be seen as grindy and annoying, because to be able to do what you like, you also have to do a couple of things you don't. Some people accept it as a fact and some don't and go here to complain.

The incredibly wide range of complain topics is the proof that this game is actually good. Everyone will hate something but as long as every one of us hates something different, it's fine.
There are, naturally, a couple of things we hate somewhat collectively, and those and only those things should be looked at, optimized and tweaked and if you pay attention those really are the things Frontier focuses on.

Ironically if you ask people what they hate, I bet you'd get a consensus on the answer.

Does anyone enjoy power play or driving around for hours looking for sodding arsenic? Cos I don't, and I can't imagine they do. I cant even imagine that anyone at FDEV, when writing up the design document though, "wow, this sounds like fun".

 

[Frank]

Been saying this for at least a year now myself. No its not fun, its not playable by the majority of players who want to play for a few light hours on a weekend and have a thrilling time. I cant honestly believe how anyone could be so bored with the game to want to travel 30000 light years to a new civilised bubble on the other side of the galaxy. I mean the Hutton run was mad enough for me I did that twice and that was enough. And yet some people are doing this - more than once in some cases. And Frontier are listening to these people? Madness.

I have indeed been playing other things I haven't played ED 'properly' for at least a year now. It's like a form of endurance as to how long I can stand the repetition! Its really not a great game. I truly hope it improves at some point because I am very sad how its turning out.

The Hutton Run community goal was a lot of fun and I enjoyed it, but I think Frontier Developments have made a mistake due to it. They saw that we had voted for the most arduous community goal and thought that we must all be a bunch of masochists who enjoy the grind. The Jaques Station community goal is ridiculous. I've got other things I want to do in the game.

Once I've completed my current objective I think I might take a break as well, and I hope that Frontier Developments employ a game designer while I'm away.

 

[william1134]

Been saying this for at least a year now myself. No its not fun, its not playable by the majority of players who want to play for a few light hours on a weekend and have a thrilling time.

Good point... these days I don't find myself with a massive amount of time. The most I can normally dedicate to gaming is about an hour so I do not really want to be spending that precious hour on a really boring grind or just feeling that I have barely advanced anything. I tell you, I get the strangest looks from the gf, when she sees me just in her eyes.. flying straight forward from star to star in a really monotonous manner. She asks me.. is that fun? I don't think I can say yes anymore.

 

[Niamhy]

my current rage-quit annoyance:

if I set a course for a system, say 7 jumps away. I have enough fuel to reach the end system. Why can't I just make one "mega-jump" to the end system? Why do I have to stop at the other 7 stars along the way, just to hit frameshift and jump away again?

I get that stopping at individual stars makes sense for exploration, I appreciate it in that context. But If i'm doing 20 trade runs I dont' want to stop at every flipping star along the way (20x7 = 140 frameshifts"). Its just pointless and tedious. And dont' get me started on Bubble2.0 . I'm not going out there until FD puts in a Wormhole or Stargate so we can make the trip in one jump. No flipping way.

 

[Chris Simon]

my current rage-quit annoyance:

if I set a course for a system, say 7 jumps away. I have enough fuel to reach the end system. Why can't I just make one "mega-jump" to the end system? Why do I have to stop at the other 7 stars along the way, just to hit frameshift and jump away again?

I get that stopping at individual stars makes sense for exploration, I appreciate it in that context. But If i'm doing 20 trade runs I dont' want to stop at every flipping star along the way (20x7 = 140 frameshifts"). Its just pointless and tedious. And dont' get me started on Bubble2.0 . I'm not going out there until FD puts in a Wormhole or Stargate so we can make the trip in one jump. No flipping way.

Well, only six days and your dreamboat arrives. Bye.

 

[Foxiol Eagle]

Agreed with OP...Sometimes I feel like Elite Dangerous is more like a job more than a game. (and this is not good, you come home from work and just want to play a game, and not do another routine after another routine)

The basic idea of having to repeat on and on what you have to do to accomplish something, is what makes it "monotone" (instead of repetitive, because all games are repetitive). Even by having so many options or "ways to play", once you start to do anything it all feels like a non stop routine.

Lately I play for a couple or so days a week and my playtime for each session last for maybe 1 up to 2 hours, but basically until I start to yawn...literally.

I love the game, the physics, the sounds, graphics, the massive mind-blowing detailed open world, the ideas behind it and the lore too. (and to think what it will come in the future...)

Now there is a problem with Engineers (aside from the rest of the game), and it is the way you have to grind by searching materials for hours (with also some luck...yeah LUCK) for then having to go back and finally get a somehow "random" upgrade. For me this is like the game is saying "yeah, your hard work is not enough...keep trying and come later, or just deal with it".
That is something that is getting on my nerves...If you tell me to do something to get an upgrade, give me the actual upgrade, not just a random stat (it all feels like a jackpot machine). There is enough randomness all around an entire planet when I'm searching for those materials, to then go back and get some percentage or a "chance" of getting the best upgrade.

In the end I have a minimal chance to get the material in that particular planet (going around for hours), then I have a chance to get a certain % of an upgrade. That is not an upgrade in my book.

This game doesn't have any respect for your real time, some balance is needed for sure. Features or some of them in the game, sure were meant to keep players playing, it sure that could work for some but not for others. It all depends in how you balance them or as in this case...how you reward the player.

OP was right when he basically said the "they should take a week or so and play the game they are building".


For me the game is good, it needs more gameplay related elements than features (I guess some of you can imagine what I mean: a war against Thargoids, walking on ships, planets and stations with some shooting, less lore reading and more action, etc) less grinding and more enjoyment for your actions. Enhance what is good, add what is needed, balance what is already there, and reward the player. No more no less.

Great post OP.

 

[Soon(TM)]

I agree, Sandro, Michael and David need to take 2 days holiday, or schedule 2 days of "testing" at Work.

Start a NEW game, with no Magical credit balance and wing up in a wing of three on the live server, in open and play the game like we do.

Maybe they might realise what's going on and why so many people have so many concern's!

 

[Devari]

my current rage-quit annoyance:

if I set a course for a system, say 7 jumps away. I have enough fuel to reach the end system. Why can't I just make one "mega-jump" to the end system? Why do I have to stop at the other 7 stars along the way, just to hit frameshift and jump away again?

I get that stopping at individual stars makes sense for exploration, I appreciate it in that context. But If i'm doing 20 trade runs I dont' want to stop at every flipping star along the way (20x7 = 140 frameshifts"). Its just pointless and tedious. And dont' get me started on Bubble2.0 . I'm not going out there until FD puts in a Wormhole or Stargate so we can make the trip in one jump. No flipping way.

This is simply how the game works. Why can't I set my ship to auto-land on planets, when it is clearly capable of doing this flawlessly when recalled? Why can't I set my ship to auto-pilot and drop out of supercruise when it nears the station? Why should I have to do any of the "unnecessary" tasks that FD has clearly set as an unrealistic and arbitrary part of the game? Most of these things exist simply for gameplay reasons, not because it's "logical" or "realistic" or even because it makes for a "good" game. FD simply decided that this is how the game will work. If they wanted you to be able to make a 120 ly super-jump, they would have given ships this ability. They clearly don't, for various reasons, so this is something you either need to accept about the game or decide it simply isn't the type of game you want to play.

 

[Otherwhere]

The same is true for no auto-docking (unless you install one). In such an advanced future, you'd never have the "docking free for all" that currently exists in game. But then you'd lose the feeling of being a pilot if you didn't get to take off and land under your own guidance.

 

[CMDR K]

Like the OP I've come to a point where I'm not sure if I wish to carry on, I feel conned and very frustrated. Most of my posts are in the bugs forum and with good reason. This is one of the rare times I've strayed out side that but I have to add to what I think is a thread with a very serious point. This game has issues and the developers in my view don't appear to know.

I'm a life time pass holder and I'm beginning to regret buying that. The Engineers update in my view is a carbuncle of a beauty spot and I don't think I can play past it. Most NPCs have been instantly super charged. Since it's introduction I fall under attack by superior NPC ships that destroy my shield in a couple of shots before I can turn to face them. I can't boost away from them as regardless of ship type they are just as fast as me. Chaff and the like don't appear to work post 2.1.

FDEV say the NPCs are usually rated within a couple of ranks of your own. For me they turn up Elite or Deadly, probably because I am rated Deadly. But i'm rated Deadly only because I've been playing for a long time not because I can actually fight well, that kind of selection is not fair and a real game killer for me. I have a FAS and an Asp. If I get caught in the Asp I'm toast, in the FAS I might be able to boost away as it is slightly faster and better armoured, but rarely do I escape without a lot of damage.

We keep seeing on the patch notes that they have fixed things, yet it looks like they have simply made the situation worse. I'm unable to avoid interdictions despite FDEV saying they fixed that, the blue bar goes no where even when I've over it for a long while. I've spent hours searching for surface materials but I've given up. Grind, grind, grind that is all it has become. I've managed 3 level one upgrades and 1 level two to my ships but I don't notice any difference what so ever. So I can't upgrade due to lack of materials, yet every NPC in the world has upgrades, where are all the normal ships? I could go on and on about what is wrong, I have hardly anything good to say except it looks good. Looking good does not make a game.

I'm just generally annoyed as this is not fun. The game needs rescuing and soon before it is too late, building future updates on the back of a seriously flawed update like Engineers is like building a house on sand.

Also, I believe the game is being mis-sold, it was certainly mis-sold to me. This game MUST be relabelled as early access and should be sold as such, it sadly is not. I did not take part in any Beta I don't have time for that, I wanted a game that I could pick up and play. I thought this was the finished article, if you read frontiers website it is. It is clear as others in the thread have said Elite Dangerous/Horizons and all our experiences that it is not finished and will not be for years to come. FDEV say it themselves so why is not sold as such?

I nipped down to a planet which had it (using the new system map feature) and found 20 within an hour.

I'm seriously jealous. You've done well but it's actually quite hard for someone in my position to stomach a statement like that after spending so long and getting nothing. The new map feature has not given me any benefit. On one occasion I spent 3 hours and got nothing but lots of common materials, such is the randomness of the game. I seriously can't spend this amount of time and effort on a game that gives nothing back. It has become a waste of money and I realise I'm wasting my life playing this game.