Please further nerf thermal cascade

[nathdixon92]

I don't think that would be enough. There would still be a magic number of them that would overwhelm anything, which is the core issue.

ECMs...point defence. If you're in a fast shipping, you should be able to avoid dumfries. Seeker Missiles are relatively slow firing and have a short clip.

Also forget the size of the missile relative to the ship, splash wouldn't be that much of an issue and I have yet to find someone sniffing my tailpipe dumping dumb fire into my backside as I won't let them lol.

A simple solution rather than nerf nerf nerf nerf nerf nerf would to allow synthesis of heatsinks, increase the effect duration and the amount of heat absorbed along with either making them immune to heat damage or buffing the integrity.

 

[Cosmos]

I don't think that would be enough. There would still be a magic number of them that would overwhelm anything, which is the core issue.

Perhaps nerf thermal cascade on missiles a bit and introduce the other stuff I said.. I reckon it could be a winner, without the need to remove thermal cascade from the game.

 

[Elethiomel Zakalwe]

Heat was OP prior to the patch but it is much much more manageable now.

Dude... No. It's just not. Watch a few videos of people using dedicated heat builds. If heat is 'manageable' then Star Citizen is a complete and playable game.

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ECMs...point defence. If you're in a fast shipping, you should be able to avoid dumfries. Seeker Missiles are relatively slow firing and have a short clip.

Have you ever actually tried using these against competent players? They're not good enough. Not even close. Also they don't do anything against cannons, so the point is completely moot anyhow...

 

[nathdixon92]

Dude... No. It's just not. Watch a few videos of people using dedicated heat builds. If heat is 'manageable' then Star Citizen is a complete and playable game.

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Have you ever actually tried using these against competent players? They're not good enough. Also they don't do anything against cannons, so the point is completely moot anyhow...

Cannons fire in a straight line. And are much slower than multi-cannons and therefore pack more of a punch. And yes I have, and been successful on multiple occasions. And when the need for a strategic withdrawal is required, I take the opportunity.

If you're flying slowly in a straight line then of course the cannons are going to punish you.

 

[Elethiomel Zakalwe]

Cannons fire in a straight line. And are much slower than multi-cannons and therefore pack more of a punch. And yes I have, and been successful on multiple occasions. And when the need for a strategic withdrawal is required, I take the opportunity.

Like, against someone actually competent? Because it sure as hell doesn't sound like it.

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If you're flying slowly in a straight line then of course the cannons are going to punish you.

Yeah, that's what I thought. If you're flying an Imperial Cutter and anyone is having trouble hitting you you're not fighting someone who has a clue.

 

[nathdixon92]

Like, against someone actually competent? Because it sure as hell doesn't sound like it.

Yes. I regularly take part in group battles against some of the most challenging and competent pvp players on xbox one elite.

 

[Elethiomel Zakalwe]

Yes. I regularly take part in group battles against some of the most challenging and competent pvp players on xbox one elite.

Oh. That explains a lot... Thanks...

 

[nathdixon92]

Like, against someone actually competent? Because it sure as hell doesn't sound like it.

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Yeah, that's what I thought. If you're flying an Imperial Cutter and anyone is having trouble hitting you you're not fighting someone who has a clue.

I have a whole fleet of ships mate, I don't just have a Cutter.

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Oh. That explains a lot... Thanks...

Excuse me?

 

[Ian Skippy]

Oh. That explains a lot... Thanks...

I think you'd make your point better if you wouldn't just snipe at someone for disagreeing.

 

[nathdixon92]

I think you'd make your point better if you wouldn't just snipe at someone for disagreeing.

Totally agree, I think someone needs to have a stick surgically removed from a certain orifice.

 

[Elethiomel Zakalwe]

I think you'd make your point better if you wouldn't just snipe at someone for disagreeing.

Just saying what I think is obvious to most people. If you watch some videos it is incredibly obvious that the XBox community is very much behind the PC community when it comes to theoretical understanding, piloting, etc. It doesn't help how impractical the Xbox One controller is for playing a game with as many controls as elite and how imprecise it is compared to mouse and keyboard or HOTAS, which explains why someone would have trouble hitting him with cannons. I know it sounds condescending, but it's just true.

 

[nathdixon92]

Just saying what I think is obvious to most people. If you watch some videos it is incredibly obvious that the XBox community is very much behind the PC community when it comes to theoretical understanding, piloting, etc. It doesn't help how impractical the Xbox One controller is for playing a game with as many controls as elite and how imprecise it is compared to mouse and keyboard or HOTAS, which explains why someone would have trouble hitting him with cannons. I know it sounds condescending, but it's just true.

No its not true at all.

The controller is more than adequate for the job and I don't appreciate you taking cheap shots for being part of the Xbox one community. In fact, it takes more skill to overcome the pitfalls of the controller.

You've just rendered your whole argument completely null and void in my opinion since you firmly believe that us xbox players are inferior and not entitled to an opinion.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Just saying what I think is obvious to most people. If you watch some videos it is incredibly obvious that the XBox community is very much behind the PC community when it comes to theoretical understanding, piloting, etc. It doesn't help how impractical the Xbox One controller is for playing a game with as many controls as elite and how imprecise it is compared to mouse and keyboard or HOTAS, which explains why someone would have trouble hitting him with cannons. I know it sounds condescending, but it's just true.

Maybe, but even though the average level of XB1 cmdrs may be lower (even if for no other reason that we've been playing for longer), I dont think thats a reason to dismiss someone's opinion. As an outsider, I myself would be very interested to see 'test' videos from the 'its OP' camp. I'm hearing some inconsistent reports about why its OP, and that would make things far clearer for me, other interested readers and the devs. Is ECM really that underpowered? In theory, it should completely nullify a missile boat, espescially if you have two. It could be that pvp cmdrs havent yet fully mastered it (it is by far the trickiest utility), or that there is a bug or just performs poorly. If you could show me a vid of what happens when someone opens fire on you and you use one ECM, and then two ECMs, that'd be very enlightening.

 

[Protein Carrot]

No its not true at all.

The controller is more than adequate for the job and I don't appreciate you taking cheap shots for being part of the Xbox one community. In fact, it takes more skill to overcome the pitfalls of the controller.

You've just rendered your whole argument completely null and void in my opinion since you firmly believe that us xbox players are inferior and not entitled to an opinion.

I'm pretty sure that the xbox one controller standard layout literally misses the lateral movement axis if you don't switch to alternate controls.

 

[Elethiomel Zakalwe]

No its not true at all.

The controller is more than adequate for the job and I don't appreciate you taking cheap shots for being part of the Xbox one community. In fact, it takes more skill to overcome the pitfalls of the controller.

You've just rendered your whole argument completely null and void in my opinion since you firmly believe that us xbox players are inferior and not entitled to an opinion.

Yes it is.

"The controller is more than adequate for the job"

No it's not.

"You've just rendered your whole argument completely null and void in my opinion since you firmly believe that us xbox players are inferior and not entitled to an opinion."

OK. Believe that if you want. Meanwhile it is laughably obvious to those of us who play PC that you don't have a clue.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Yes it is.

"The controller is more than adequate for the job"

No it's not.

"You've just rendered your whole argument completely null and void in my opinion since you firmly believe that us xbox players are inferior and not entitled to an opinion."

OK. Believe that if you want. Meanwhile it is laughably obvious to those of us who play PC that you don't have a clue.

This is turning into a live chat. Something to consider: the 'cascade heat attack' is considered by you and others in the 'its OP' camp to require little to no skill. That means it doesnt matter if you are better or not than Dixon, you're both facing the same issue. If he can deal with it effectively without being as skilled, that proves his point more than it hurts. The quality of his opposition doesnt matter because its a no-skill technique anyway.

 

[Elethiomel Zakalwe]

I'm pretty sure that the xbox one controller standard layout literally misses the lateral movement axis if you don't switch to alternate controls.

Yes. It simply doesn't have enough buttons and sticks to configure it without missing something important and it's super imprecise even if it did have enough. That also makes FA off damn near impossible to use, which all on it's own pretty much invalidates any claim that someone on XBO makes about anything to do with balance.

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This is turning into a live chat. Something to consider: the 'cascade heat attack' is considered by you and others in the 'its OP' camp to require little to no skill. That means it doesnt matter if you are better or not than Dixon, you're both facing the same issue. If he can deal with it effectively without being as skilled, that proves his point more than it hurts. The quality of his opposition doesnt matter because its a no-skill technique anyway.

What it comes down to is I simply do not believe he actually fought anyone with anything resembling a competently made heat-based build. I want to believe that someone in the xbox community has a clue, but time and time again I am proven wrong when I watch videos made by people playing on xbox.

 

[Jaim Vlazaltadar]

It's an evolving universe, ED is a historical timeline not just a snapshot. Surely there are going to be times when warfare is a technological stalemate/nightmare and casualties are guaranteed until the next thing comes along - as there are in real life.

Are we 100% sure this is unintentional and has to be looked at in a metagamey/OOC way?

 

[nathdixon92]

Yes. It simply doesn't have enough buttons and sticks to configure it without missing something important and it's super imprecise even if it did have enough. That also makes FA off damn near impossible to use, which all on it's own pretty much invalidates any claim that someone on XBO makes about anything to do with balance.

Wait what? Have you really heard yourself speaking here lol. I think you'll find that a year of using the controller has made us pretty adept at playing with its shortfalls.

Besides that, there are a number of things which players can do to help combat and to be mindful of when it comes to heat. I posted it on the previous page which seems to have gone completely ignored. Sure there are some steps for frontier could take with regards to heat (maybe they could increase the resistance a bit more as you approach the hard cap) but further nerfing will render it almost useless as it is pretty much a dedicated PvP weapon and really struggles against pve. Maybe adjust it so it attacks hull first then goes for modules, the heat sink changes I suggested.

 

[Protein Carrot]

It's an evolving universe, ED is a historical timeline not just a snapshot. Surely there are going to be times when warfare is a technological stalemate/nightmare and casualties are guaranteed until the next thing comes along - as there are in real life.

Are we 100% sure this is unintentional and has to be looked at in a metagamey/OOC way?

Yes, we are 100% certain this is unintentional.