Elite has no respect for people's time.

[Otherwhere]

I hear you.

I often find myself feeling that Frontier says: "Wait! How can we turn that (thing to do) into a challenge? Mining? It should be hard to do, and take up a lot of time. Same with trading. We don't want to make it too easy to find good to buy low and sell high, we want to make it a chore!" They seem to have a knack for turning something fun into work.

I play to relax after work, not to work a second job. I'm not looking for easy leveling up or fast progression. I'm looking for it to be fun to do. What that is varies from player to player, but I agree that Frontier seems less interested in making the game fun than in making it take time to do everything. EvE did that because they were subscription based - the more you wanted to do, the longer you needed to stay subscribed. With Elite, the need for taking up time really doesn't exist.

And I feel that it is largely because there is little engaging reason to do things in Elite. CGs have helped me a little because I feel like I'm making a difference. But individual missions - why help this corporate faction over that other (minor) faction? Do I just do it for the credits? (I confess, I really don't get the Background Simulation aspect of the game. It's not clear enough to engage my interest and motivate me. I haven't tried Power Play because I've seen nothing but negative posts about it.)

So, yeah, definitely room for improvement on some aspects. Graphic and sound, amazing! Gameplay, not so much.

 

[andrak]

Lol! Seriously? I missed that part. Well, 40 hours is still pretty darn massive. I think the current record to reach Sag A* is something like 5 hours with jumponium.

Except the whole premise of Elite doesn't revolve around reaching Sag A.

 

[Deleted member 115407]

Things like appraoching a target in supercruise used to be engaging but now that I have perfected them, there is no more depth and they are but hollow mechical tasks.

Not to drag this out, as it looks like OP has found for himself a pretty good potential solution to his problems. But I thought I'd mention that even I'm starting to experience supercruise fatigue.

 

[jasonbarron]

Except the whole premise of Elite doesn't revolve around reaching Sag A.

I know that they've put forth that reaching the core is some kind of end game goal, but I'm fairly confident that it looks like there is going to be plenty to keep the average person side tracked from getting there in that time frame. One thing that has me curious, on that front, is whether or not you can even reach the core with the starter ship(s)? I would imagine that there is going to be some kind of gamey reason why you have to upgrade your ship to make progress, and that will have an effect on the time it takes to reach the center. We'll know pretty soon.

 

[Andovar]

I agree with the OP in some respects.
The game world is huge, so yes, travel should take time.
If you choose to fuel scoop with a class 1 scoop instead of a higher class, then that should take time.
If you choose to mine manually instead of equipping limpets, then that too should take more time.
None of those are an issue. There has to be some time investment, especially some based on player choices.

The lack of respect for player time is some of the artificial "time walls" that FD has implemented.
Things like:
- Engineer blueprints: FD forcing you to fly back to a base to check out what's available. Why? What's their reasoning behind this other than some pointless timesink? (yes, i know there's external sites or you could take screen shots, but that's not the point)
- PowerPlay itself: heck they have a 'countdown timer' built into this part of the game. You either have to sit and wait to stock up on leaflets or pay (if you can afford it) to bypass the timer.
- CG's with the destination station several hundred thousand ls away. Again, why? CG's should be about working together to deliver goods while avoiding pirates and such. As soon as you move away from the star and get up to speed, there's no risk of interdictions, pretty much nothing to do other than stare at the countdown timer for the next 10-15min. Why??? There's no extra challenge or skill involved in this, just a simple timesink.

So many times I've felt like FD introduces these elements solely with idea of adding or extending gameplay. Unfortunately they seem confuse pointless timesink with engaging gameplay.

 

[Deleted member 115407]

I know that they've put forth that reaching the core is some kind of end game goal, but I'm fairly confident that it looks like there is going to be plenty to keep the average person side tracked from getting there in that time frame. One thing that has me curious, on that front, is whether or not you can even reach the core with the starter ship(s)? I would imagine that there is going to be some kind of gamey reason why you have to upgrade your ship to make progress, and that will have an effect on the time it takes to reach the center. We'll know pretty soon.

I watched an interview with the lead producer/designer who basically said just that, i.e. in order to get there players will have to work to upgrade their ships and such through crafting.

 

[jasonbarron]

I watched an interview with the lead producer/designer who basically said just that, i.e. in order to get there players will have to work to upgrade their ships and such through crafting.

Yeah, that's what I figured. Then it's going to take a lot longer than 40 hours of gameplay to reach it. I assume the forty hours comment must have been referring to how long it takes to physically travel there if you had a properly upgraded ship from the outset, which you won't.

 

[Sole Hunter]

holy donuts i was reading this exact same review on steam as we speak. Talk about concidance.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Yeah, that's what I figured. Then it's going to take a lot longer than 40 hours of gameplay to reach it. I assume the forty hours comment must have been referring to how long it takes to physically travel there if you had a properly upgraded ship from the outset, which you won't.

Eh, no. From the start it was estimated to be 30-100 hours, depending on how you go about it. 'Speedrunners' might get there faster. The exploit allowed you to get there in 12, although the guy who used it needed 30 as he didnt know about it right away. Its a non-issue anyway. The formal goal of reaching the center can be reached in the time it takes a normal AAA game to complete. The long-term appeal will be in the PG of the planets: if you are into that, it doesnt matter if you reached the center or not.

 

[Alex Brentnall]

Um, it's an MMO? Abusing the player's time is pretty much rule 1 on creating an MMO... Just because it's not subscription based it's still in the same category...

 

[Ziljan]

When I hit the 1000 hour mark, I almost the exact same feeling as you, OP. What's left? Then I decided to dig a little deeper and the game started revealing new layers of depth. This game can reward you with more if you put more into it, or if you attempt to unlock more of its secrets.

There are 3 major things missing that might address your concerns though:

1) challenging/survival gameplay.
2) compelling power struggle gameplay with adequately integrated mechanics to support it.
3) growth and expansion mechanics that allow us to strive for something bigger than ourselves, but with more tangible results

 

[Darth Ender]

Elite is a game. It doesn't have emotions and isn't alive and isn't self aware. it can't respect anything the same as it can't hate or love. Now, people can show respect. So who is responsible for you spending time playing the game? You. So the only person not respecting your time playing the game is yourself. So essentially this is a hate thread about your own poor choices of how you spend your time. That sounds pretty off-topic for a discussion about a game.

Stop pretending it's the game's fault you're playing it.

I'd suggest the mods move this to off-topic forum. I dont care about how other people hate how they disrespect their own usage of time. I hate how i waste time everyday too, but I dont make threads about it on a game discussion forum.

 

[CMDR Minion Blob]

In the big picture what this--or any other form of entertainment for that matter--comes down to a quality of life or "balance of life" choice. Is there life beyond Elite; definitely is for a lot of people, but for some Elite could easily be one of the most engaging, captivating and gratifying virtual experiences ever achieved. Despite the imperfections and less than polished features. Do I think it's optimal to expect the player to SC to a planet 170K LS away from the Nav Beacon without the ability to somehow compress that time during which there is simply nothing to do? No I don't but maybe it was designed this way to inject "realism" to the life of an explorer or space trucker. I would imagine the boring routine interrupted by flashes of interdictions or other emergencies may be a nice change of pace for some but may not be ideal for others. ED is a remarkably complex game where something is always happening, it's worth to listen to the nuances, noises, sound effects, popup messages can be signs of impending danger, action or doom! I have learned this the hard way. Studying the System or Galaxy Map during long transit times in SC can also be very rewarding as more and more information is presented there for those who take the time and effort to look.

MMORGs and all other progression-based games are enormous time sinks--this should be featured in the box like the Surgeon General's Warning on Tobacco sold in the US--but I would say anyone who lasted a 1,000 hours is clearly not in for instant gratification and will be back.

Content development is hard and time-consuming work and the ED Universe is always evolving--perhaps not as fast as everyone including the developers would like--but there has to be a balance. As an SC backer myself--at the minimum level, no ships or playtime--I feel more comfortable at the balance FDev had struck of relatively quick successive point releases mapped to Season-based roadmap that preserves the core of the original game's vision supplanted by today's technology such as immersion VR-support provides makes this the most compelling way to spend most of my free time today.

It's my opinion and expectations vary a great deal. I will keep my eyes out for new titles and own some of the best ones out there and Elite doesn't have to be an exclusive choice--VR support is key for me thanks to Elite I'm not interested in any space game that doesn't meet or exceed the benchmark this game has set--but I think when the hype dies down Elite will still be there and remain compellingly unique enough to enjoy for a lot of people including me.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

And yet, if FD made the rewards come quicker, the complaints would be based around how quickly people got things, maxed out everything, and now have nothing left to do.

 

[IndigoWyrd]

This will be the last time I try to reply, as my previous two attempts were simply "eaten" by a lying webpage that claims I logged out when I haven't.

I don't know what the OP wants, and suspect he doesn't either., so I have to ask: What is it that you do want?
Traveling the vastness of space, which is largely empty, isn't normally that exciting, but that's a large part of what Elite is.
And aside from the 0H 0M bonuses, I don't think I've seen any broken missions.

 

[Banana's_Are_Good_For_You]

I've found a way to enjoy the game, again.
I haz a job with anti-social hours as well.
I did have to change some things though.
The horror!

Depends if you wanna or not.

Or just expect everything to change to suit yourself...which ain't happening for any of us.

 

[ThatFuzzyTiger]

And yet, if FD made the rewards come quicker, the complaints would be based around how quickly people got things, maxed out everything, and now have nothing left to do.

Not entirely true. If the rewards were consistent, people would feel that there was an appreciable value for the time invested. As it stands, the input is either marginal for the reward output (See powerplay - lots of input for not much output) or the input is consistent but the output is inconsistent (see engineers). When someone says the game doesn't value their time, it's because there's a disconnect between "time/effort/skill in" and "results/rewards out", in Elite's case, that disconnect has become progressively more prevalent as time has gone on, and has become uncomfortable with engineers. It's the lack of consistency that's causing people to feel the game is "not fun".

A good analogy would be if an MMO had randomised XP bars from level to level within say a +/- 20% curve. Someone with exceptionally good rolls might find themselves screaming ahead of everyone else, someone with exceptionally bad rolls might find themselves stuck in a really long slog, yet both players had put in the exact same time and effort and there might be nothing to distinguish the two players skill wise, it's just luck of the draw.

 

[Banana's_Are_Good_For_You]

Not entirely true. If the rewards were consistent, people would feel that there was an appreciable value for the time invested. As it stands, the input is either marginal for the reward output (See powerplay - lots of input for not much output) or the input is consistent but the output is inconsistent (see engineers). When someone says the game doesn't value their time, it's because there's a disconnect between "time/effort/skill in" and "results/rewards out", in Elite's case, that disconnect has become progressively more prevalent as time has gone on, and has become uncomfortable with engineers. It's the lack of consistency that's causing people to feel the game is "not fun".

A good analogy would be if an MMO had randomised XP bars from level to level within say a +/- 20% curve. Someone with exceptionally good rolls might find themselves screaming ahead of everyone else, someone with exceptionally bad rolls might find themselves stuck in a really long slog, yet both players had put in the exact same time and effort and there might be nothing to distinguish the two players skill wise, it's just luck of the draw.

Luck is real, just saying.
This game is not a hyper-intensive skill fest. It's not designed to cater for it.

 

[ThatFuzzyTiger]

Luck is real, just saying.
This game is not a hyper-intensive skill fest. It's not designed to cater for it.

Okay. I'm not -entirely- sure what you think you're playing but I think you and I play very different games. I'll leave it at that.

 

[Banana's_Are_Good_For_You]

Okay. I'm not -entirely- sure what you think you're playing but I think you and I play very different games. I'll leave it at that.

If what I said to you is lost on you, then you do not understand how games work and more importantly that this game is not set up to accommodate a full on competitive environment.
This game will never be considered "competitive" like other games are.
See "Engineers"...see "Instancing"...and so many other things.
You may try and play it in a competitive manner but when it comes down to it, it's not how it was designed and there will be problems.
P2P basically.

It is entirely possible that I play the game under a completely different mindset that you do though.