Some combat logging food for thought.. If H1Z1 can do it, why not FD?

Cosmos

C
So it goes without saying that a vast number of folks are sick and tired of the present combat logging situ (me included) and with FDs stance that using the menus to log out when a player involved is refered to as 'gracefully exiting the game'..

Thus, I refer you to an article I just read:

http://massivelyop.com/2016/08/08/daybreak-is-cracking-down-on-cheating-bad-connections-in-h1z1/

And quoted for everyones edification:

The studio is also working on a log-out timer to prevent log-out cheating, new regional servers, a new two-man skirmish mode, and penalties for those who have poor network connections:
“There is an escalating system of penalties applied based on the length of time you go with a poor connection. Level 1 simply locks your weapon. This is usually brief if you normally have a stable connection, could just be a minor interruption. Level 2 kicks in if you are continuing to play with a bad connection, and it will freeze your character in place and lock your weapon. Level 3 will get triggered if you ignore the previous warnings, and it is a combination of the previous two levels and then will also kick you out of a vehicle if you are currently driving one. Essentially this will make the player with a poor connection a sitting duck. If the situation is corrected, your character will be unlocked, and everyone can continue enjoy the match.”

​
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(read: Poor connection = combat logging)

My view? Frontier should take note ;)
 
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Asp Explorer

Asp Explorer
All that will do is penalize people who run normal, everyday consumer connections to their ISP.

I've got a business cable connection at one site that has had at least 50% packet loss for the past few months - and Comcast have absolutely no plans to fix it.
 

Cosmos

C
Asp Explorer said:
All that will do is penalize people who run normal, everyday consumer connections to their ISP.

I've got a business cable connection at one site that has had at least 50% packet loss for the past few months - and Comcast have absolutely no plans to fix it.
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If we are playing in Open why should we put up with others 'bad connections'? Note, once those 'issues' are resolved access to the game is fully resolved. ;)
 

GraXXoR

GraXXoR
There aren't even a vast number of players playing elite dangerous in total, let alone open, let alone PvP, let alone "sick and tired of the present combat logging situation."

There are plenty more things applicable to more players, such as storage, that should be put in place first. IMO.
 
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Cosmos

C
GraXXoR said:
There aren't even a vast number of players playing elite dangerous in total, let alone open, let alone PvP, let alone "sick and tired of the present combat logging situation."

There are plenty more things, applicable to more players such as storage that should be put in place first. IMO.
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According to steamspy 75k players got in game over the past 2 weeks. That doesn't include those who don't play on steam. Over the weekend ship visits to Sothis were at ~7k players (that was in 24 hours).. There are in fact a lot of people playing this game.
 
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Asp Explorer

Asp Explorer
Cosmos said:
If we are playing in Open why should we put up with others 'bad connections'? Note, once those 'issues' are resolved access to the game is fully resolved. ;)
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Quite simply because once a packet has gone through your boundary, you depend upon a multitude of lowest-tier, moneygrubbing, thieving, lying, clueless, bandwidth-slurping, traffic-shaping crooks to get that packet to it's destination. And then of course you need a responding packet, which may have to take yet another tortuous path through yet another bunch of traffic sloppers.
 

Cosmos

C
Roybe said:
Hint:

"new regional servers"

When E: D becomes a client/server based game...call me about the rest of the suggestions above!
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We could easily apply some logic to this and use some common sense based rules, such as:

When does client lose connection?
Are the odds generally a negative situation for the one 'losing connection'?
Is this a repeatable situation?
Under other cirmstances does the player 'lose' connection?

My point here is that if FD had the will, they would be able to address the problem. What are the general stats on player connectivity? Jezuz.. We are talking about a gaming company led by a guy who is from one the the most prestigious Universities in the entire world; I would suggest DB has a high IQ and they have a talent pool that is in the same ballpark.

Its well within their abillity to resolve this. Even the implementation of some sort of system to sort this would act as a deterent. As it stands now there is none. If you don't want to play in Open then thats your choice.. if so, stop wasting everyone elses time and effort and undermining Open by cheating.

Come on, this isn't exactly an unreasonable thing to request..
 
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Asp Explorer

Asp Explorer
Cosmos said:
Come on, this isn't exactly an unreasonable thing to request..
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Cosmos - it's completely out of their control.

How do you envision the traffic path this post took to get from my PC send request, to my ISP, to FD's forum servers, and from your PC's read request, to your ISP, to FD's forum servers?
 

Khelder

Khelder
Cosmos said:
So it goes without saying that a vast number of folks are sick and tired of the present combat logging situ (me included) and with FDs stance that using the menus to log out when a player involved is refered to as 'gracefully exiting the game'..

Thus, I refer you to an article I just read:

http://massivelyop.com/2016/08/08/daybreak-is-cracking-down-on-cheating-bad-connections-in-h1z1/

And quoted for everyones edification:



(read: Poor connection = combat logging)

My view? Frontier should take note ;)
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I haven't played the game but did a (tiny) bit of research. The letter in question was in reference to H1Z1: King of the Hill. According to the site, "H1Z1: King of the Hill is a fast-paced shooter comprised of multiple, fight-to-the-death game modes..." Sounds like Arena to me. So, yes, perhaps the suggestions could be looked at... in Arena.
 

Cosmos

C
Khelder said:
I haven't played the game but did a (tiny) bit of research. The letter in question was in reference to H1Z1: King of the Hill. According to the site, "H1Z1: King of the Hill is a fast-paced shooter comprised of multiple, fight-to-the-death game modes..." Sounds like Arena to me. So, yes, perhaps the suggestions could be looked at... in Arena.
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No one plays Arena because its pointless.
 

Cmdr Eagleboy

Cmdr Eagleboy
Issue is that there's no server for local season - all is happening on player computers. FD and players don't trust ED client programs. Unless there's some impressive anti-cheating stuff going on - which is expensive to do - there won't be ways to handle combat logging client side. FD however can detect logging and reasons behind it rather easily. So current scheme is "OKeish". It's not ideal, but logging can be discouraging this way.
 

Loboguará

L
I live in brasil, so from now on I cant play elite (which i paid a lot for) no more because I'm too far away from the servers and my connection isn't 100%. Seems fair... Realy. Who I call for revenue?
What is the point of this anyway?
 

Roybe

Roybe
Cosmos said:
We could easily apply some logic to this and use some common sense based rules, such as:

When does client lose connection?
Are the odds generally a negative situation for the one 'losing connection'?
Is this a repeatable situation?
Under other cirmstances does the player 'lose' connection?

My point here is that if FD had the will, they would be able to address the problem. What are the general stats on player connectivity? Jezuz.. We are talking about a gaming company lead by a guy who is from one the the most prestigious Universities in the entire world; I would suggest DB has a high IQ and they have a talent pool that is in the same ballpark.

Its well within their abillity to resolve this. Even the implementation of some sort of system to sort this would act as a deterent. As it stands now there is none. If you don't want to play in Open then thats your choice.. if so, stop wasting everyone elses time and effort and undermining Open by cheating.

Come on, this isn't exactly an unreasonable thing to request..
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Not trying to say this is unreasonable, or reasonable.

There is some level of anti-cheat built into the game...however, in a peer to peer situation...it is much easier for spoofs to occur...and limit the capability of disconnects registering in a way that makes punishment workable...and not have large quantities of false positives.

Anti-cheat capabilities are much more capable within a client server situation...very few false positives AND log off timers that can be set to punish players for logging out.

With this game, I have had people in my own wing, on Discord/TS disappear, go invulnerable, etc....and they are still in game, within their own new instance.

The game is untrustworthy when it comes down to 'combat logging'. Unfortunately, it is a design issue..that might...or might not be easily fixed.

Just another 'feature' that makes E: D such a special game to play!
 

Cmdr Eagleboy

Cmdr Eagleboy
Asp Explorer said:
Why is Arena pointless? You can fly around, blow stuff up, have heaps of giggles, and "git gud".

Of course, it offers nothing to the PvP-Pro-Bro who just wants to pop the excited first-time-Anaconda pilot who can't afford the rebuy.
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Arena CTF is best and most exciting CTF mode I have played in FPS and other games in years.

Issue is however that for some unknown reason - *cough* players just wanting to show their lower parts onto others *cough* - almost no one plays it. Everyone and his co-pilot cat/dog is in Death match. Must speak volumes about mentality of PvP player base.
 
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Loboguará

L
Asp Explorer said:
Why is Arena pointless? You can fly around, blow stuff up, have heaps of giggles, and "git gud".

Of course, it offers nothing to the PvP-Pro-Bro who just wants to pop the excited first-time-Anaconda pilot who can't afford the rebuy.
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Arena is the real pvp in my understanding. No engineers, no logging no rebuy no griefing, kinda same type of ships and modules... Assessable to all. Just old and gold pewpewpew out in the sideral space. Although I would recommend a fine tunning of the matchmaking balancing.
 

nosleepdemon

nosleepdemon
Elite's peer to peer model makes any sort of authoritative approach difficult to implement. Afterall, if both peers have equal say, who should the elite matchmaking server trust? If player A says that player B disconnected, do we then hand over hosting of player B's ship to player A's instance? No, of course not. This is the ugliness of peer to peer; combat logging will never be solved.
 
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