Some combat logging food for thought.. If H1Z1 can do it, why not FD?

[Devari]

We could easily apply some logic to this and use some common sense based rules, such as:

When does client lose connection?
Are the odds generally a negative situation for the one 'losing connection'?
Is this a repeatable situation?
Under other cirmstances does the player 'lose' connection?

FD is already unwilling/unable to respond to requests for reimbursement for players who lose exploration data or cargo due to game bugs, the most they do is reimburse your ship insurance costs but that's it. So if FD can't implement a system to properly reimburse players for lost effort/time from all the bugs we've been dealing with, what makes you think that they will put in the massive amount of effort required to try to accurately detect and enforce any type of system for combat logging?

My point here is that if FD had the will, they would be able to address the problem.

Sadly, this is also true for many of the bugs/missing features/etc that have been an issue for the game since it launched. Keep in mind here that the flight landing overrides (a simple textfile) were broken over 2 months ago when 2.1 launched and haven't even been fixed yet, despite being very important for many players keybind configs. If FD can't fix a very important text file in 2 months time we will realistically never get any type of detection or enforcement of combat logging.

Jezuz.. We are talking about a gaming company lead by a guy who is from one the the most prestigious Universities in the entire world;

I've spent the last two decades in post-secondary education and while I do attribute some credibility based on someone's level of education (i.e., earning a doctorate or equivalent) I put very little if any emphasis on where someone studied as long as it is a properly accredited institution in North America or Europe. Often how "prestigious" your University is has nothing to do with the quality of education you receive or even if you are particularly talented in your field at all. Keep in mind here that George W. Bush went to Yale, an Ivy League school, and he can't even pronounce "nuclear" properly. That should tell you all you need to know about the "prestige" associated with educational institutions.

I would suggest DB has a high IQ and they have a talent pool that is in the same ballpark.

From what I've seen since 2.1 launched, FD has no coherent plan or framework for the game overall and is simply responding in a knee-jerk manner to what is going on with the forums. I can tell you that as a company FD is not doing a particularly good job in terms of either overall game development or communication with their players so how "smart" any of the individual developers might be is sort of a moot point if they lack proper organization or leadership.

Come on, this isn't exactly an unreasonable thing to request..

It sort of is, when we have game-breaking bugs (cheating NPCs, buggy interdictions, etc.) that have not been fixed yet. It just isn't a priority for FD given all the other issues they need to fix in the game.

 

[Mangal Oemie]

So it goes without saying that a vast number of folks are sick and tired of the present combat logging situ (me included) and with FDs stance that using the menus to log out when a player involved is refered to as 'gracefully exiting the game'..

Thus, I refer you to an article I just read:

http://massivelyop.com/2016/08/08/daybreak-is-cracking-down-on-cheating-bad-connections-in-h1z1/

And quoted for everyones edification:



(read: Poor connection = combat logging)

My view? Frontier should take note

This is not anti-combat logging, it's anti people with poor connections.

combat logging = no connection

 

[Necronaught]

Just out of interest what kind of players combat log on you?

 

[piugattuk]

As unpopular as it sounds I support people who log out when they are attacked by trigger happy commanders when they did nothing and someone just wants jolly jolly kills.

 

[Khelder]

As unpopular as it sounds I support people who log out when they are attacked by trigger happy commanders when they did nothing and someone just wants jolly jolly kills.

Given there is no Open PvE mode, I agree.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

As unpopular as it sounds I support people who log out when they are attacked by trigger happy commanders when they did nothing and someone just wants jolly jolly kills.

It's not unpopular, just FD considers it cheating.

 

[Sara Lyons]

As unpopular as it sounds I support people who log out when they are attacked by trigger happy commanders when they did nothing and someone just wants jolly jolly kills.

Then go into solo or mobius.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Given there is no Open PvE mode, I agree.

There never was promised one.

 

[AJW]

Groundhog thread...

 

[Asp Explorer]

It's not unpopular, just FD considers it cheating.

If it's done as a graceful exit via menu and the "danger close" timer - then it's completely legitimate.

If it's done via cable pulling or task killing, then it's not legitimate.

If it's done via a whole multitude of other methods - nobody knows for sure.

 

[Khelder]

There never was promised one.

That's kind of beside the point. I'm sure there are a lot of things that weren't promised that we'll end up getting (and vice versa). What matters is what is wanted/needed.

 

[Lucius-Darcia]

So it goes without saying that a vast number of folks are sick and tired of the present combat logging situ (me included) and with FDs stance that using the menus to log out when a player involved is refered to as 'gracefully exiting the game'..

Thus, I refer you to an article I just read:

http://massivelyop.com/2016/08/08/daybreak-is-cracking-down-on-cheating-bad-connections-in-h1z1/

And quoted for everyones edification:



(read: Poor connection = combat logging)

My view? Frontier should take note

Just another playerkiller who asks for meat. Is it really THAT annoying for you if somebody in his fresh bought T6 doesn't want to get killed from you?

Penaltys for combat logger are okay IF there are heavy penaltys for playerkilling without really reason. For example ban 1 day, 1 week, 1 month, forever. And "my RPG works this way" isn't a reason in that place. [up]

 

[Gully Foyle]

Does it really matter if your target logs off legally or just pulls his CAT6 out?
You've won the match the second he/she does either.
Is it that important to make the kill as well?

If we went to a client/central server model, you can be sure that E: D would have to become a subscription game to be profitable.
I for one don't want to pay to play.

The network troubles we face now are due 90% of the time to two things:

1/ An instance is only as good as the originating CMDR of the instance. If their net connect or computer isn't quite up to snuff, the rest suffer.

2/ Your intarweb provider's connection to the backbone between them and Amazon's AWS servers can have a huge effect on your connect's latency or delay in responding.

Just Sayin'
o7

 

[Lucius-Darcia]

No one plays Arena because its pointless.

Why is arena pointless? Because your opponent doesn't trouble with a persistent loss? Tells a lot about your character...

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

That's kind of beside the point. I'm sure there are a lot of things that weren't promised that we'll end up getting (and vice versa). What matters is what is wanted/needed.

No, it is not besides the point. There are some things that can be added and and some things that never will be changed. Having different modes for PvP and PvE is one of them.

 

[Aussiedroid]

My view is that this would be a terrible idea, penalising players for having a substandard connection does not address the underlying issue. It may mean for someone like me connecting from Australia that my ship gets frozen and destroyed for a temporary glitch simply because I may have a poor line or physically I am a long way away from server so get a high ping.

 

[Aewarin Jameson]

Before people brand me with an iron let me say up front - Combat logging are the actions of scumbags and should be punished.

--
Ignoring the fact that the article linked was for a P2S game which is completely different to ED I ask a different question.

At the moment there is no anti-disconnect technology in play in so much that if you pull the plug you immediately leave the game. From the other person's point of view you are invulnerable and spinning, which is due to their client trying to establish a connection to you before timing out and removing you from their world.

That means that FD would have to develop "something" which would take time and resources.

Reminds me of Fightclub

If the cost of developing that "something" is more than the loss to potential revenue from the PvP crowd (to whom this only affects) then the problem is one that doesn't need fixing.

/2cs.

 

[Captain Willard]

Player Killers=zero combat skill and has nothing to do with pirating, bounty hunting or anything else. Look at the bozo's that fly a combat ship 22k ly's to kill unarmed, unshielded exploration ships. Impresses the bejeezus out of me. I'll never forget my first time being interdicted, the cmdr sez. Anything tasty aboard? I respond, well you scanned me and we both know I AM RUNNING MT. He laffed and sed I know, have a good day cmdr. Now it's an mt T-9, lets kill it. Millions in credits and time lost for him. Zero for the attacker. I'll state again. Player Killers=zero combat skill. The combat log is fine, as soon as I see the interdict screen, log out. Pkr's don't like it? To frakking bad. Pkr's have ruined that part of open. You only have yourselves to blame.

 

[Devari]

Combat logging are the actions of scumbags and should be punished.

If this were being done to "game" the system by improving your KD ratio in a game like Battlefield, I'd agree with you. But the issue here is that we have very buggy interdiction mechanics and this means that the game as it currently stands isn't really "fair" for interdicted players. You basically have to submit each time and even then you get an insta-failed interdiction about 10% of the time despite submitting. There are also currently issues with thermal shock weapons still being quite overpowered even with the changes in 2.1.05. I was interdicted by an FDL in my Clipper and a brief volley from his thermal shock pulses cooked my cargo hatch almost immediately and I lost my cargo (was only carrying 4 tons at the time). I had just bought my Clipper so it still wasn't combat fitted (I was in the process of putting Engineering mods on it) and the CMDR who interdicted me was quite polite and when it was clear I wasn't looking for a fight he didn't pursue. The issue here is that many CMDRs are specifically looking for the weakest players to interdict so it's not a fair fight at all for those CMDR. Given the buggy interdiction mechanics that FD refuse to fix I don't really blame dedicated traders from combat logging when they are interdicted as their only other option is to have hours of work wasted for another CMDR's "enjoyment". If FD made it a priority to fix interdictions and make these "fair" for all CMDRs, then I think they might have a case to look at combat logging, but until then FD really has nothing to say about combat logging when the refuse to fix the interdiction bugs.

 

[Khelder]

No, it is not besides the point. There are some things that can be added and and some things that never will be changed. Having different modes for PvP and PvE is one of them.

I disagree. I see no logical reason for that stance.