2.2 Reveal confirmed for gamescom
- Thread starter CMDR Ash
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Nice stream, yes. As for NPC crew if done the right way, it can push ED in a really good way
fingers crossed.Yeah that's what I meant - I didn't understand your post because you wrote 5 words? lol
Anyone saying FD are "a tiny, underfunded company" are talking nonsense and should stop using it as an excuse.
Nice stream, yes. As for NPC crew if done the right way, it can push ED in a really good way
I think that "npc crew" for 2.2 just means hiring an npc to control the main ship or the fighter when you are not doing it yourself.
However it puts the ground sooner than expected for possible 2.3 "real" npc crew (previously denied)
Considering the slap in the face NMS just delivered with a salty wet wish, I'm amazed there's people hyping this up. We only just got shown what hype does but no, some idiots can never learn and get right back on the hype train - shame on them.
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Guys, I think the best thing you can do is repeatedly make concrete suggestions. Like, being able to build small outposts on moons and such. Yes there's a whole ton of forum users who will tell you that "this is not what Elite is about". However don't let that deter you. These people are not David Braben, or Mike Evans, or Sandro Sammarco (did I spell that right?).
And don't let anyone tell you that a feature you suggest "has no place in Elite". This is a game, not a religion. Anything we want *can* be done. There's limits of practicality, sure, but not limits of dogmata.
Dogma killed Planetside 2. There were so many people violently opposed to the idea of building even semi-automated defenses in the game, even though that worked fine in PS1, and by the time the construction system was finally being implemented, most had moved on - especially those people who said "the game is fine, don't add that stuff, I don't want it." - They're gone now, playing some COD or whatever other arena shooter without metagame they play. Don't let Elite become the same, a playground for "git gud" deathmatch people who see any kind of added depth as a waste of their time.
Also try to keep in mind that adding facets like passenger missions is not completely pointless either. There's a lot of things that can come in handy later. Some are currently not used to their full potential *coughpowerplaycough* but that too is something that needs repeated, concrete suggestions.
Don't say "FD, stop doing X", instead say: "FD, please do Y".
And don't let anyone tell you that a feature you suggest "has no place in Elite". This is a game, not a religion. Anything we want *can* be done. There's limits of practicality, sure, but not limits of dogmata.
Dogma killed Planetside 2. There were so many people violently opposed to the idea of building even semi-automated defenses in the game, even though that worked fine in PS1, and by the time the construction system was finally being implemented, most had moved on - especially those people who said "the game is fine, don't add that stuff, I don't want it." - They're gone now, playing some COD or whatever other arena shooter without metagame they play. Don't let Elite become the same, a playground for "git gud" deathmatch people who see any kind of added depth as a waste of their time.
Also try to keep in mind that adding facets like passenger missions is not completely pointless either. There's a lot of things that can come in handy later. Some are currently not used to their full potential *coughpowerplaycough* but that too is something that needs repeated, concrete suggestions.
Don't say "FD, stop doing X", instead say: "FD, please do Y".
![[VR] Mad Mike](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/27/27910.jpg?1553527108){kind=avatar}
whilst this is possible, if so then really the guys out there doing the stream really should get slapped knuckes, as they all know how much we (as in the forum users, i cant speak for the whole player base) want npc crew - iirc the last poll was up at 80% would choose npc crew over meat suit even, and that is not counting those who prefer multplayer crew but can see the use of npc crew.... so, if it is just the mini fighters flying themselves - something we have known about since ship fighters were announced ages ago, then them making a big deal "teasing" us with npc crew would be cruel TBH, they could have said nothing and no one would have been that dissapointed.
So i am going to stick my neck out and say this afternoon we will find out about proper npc crew of some description. and not just our ship flying itsself when we are in a drone or vice versa.
I hope your right mike, but I have a sneaking suspicion it will be otherwise, we shall see.
Exactly this. Anyone here saying you can't complain isn't worth talking with because they simply cannot see anything and have made themselves blind. To what point is there raising issues when "The game is already perfect as it is!!!"
You know what, people were saying it was perfect when it released - the same people so there's your bar - we already hit it back on release day however, some people aren't gamers here because they aren't comparing ED to other games either that or they simply don't have the capacity to remember things.
There are massive issues with ED unless you like the simplist gameplay mechanics then you're good. Obvioulsy, some portion of the player base are fine with this. Once people have docked with the same new stations a hundred times, they won't even bother looking at them because they're lifeless. The new hyperspace animation will be the same most likely. New stars well, we've all seen the exisiting stars so yeah, it's nice to have them in. Ship launched fighters, one at a time - big deal? Passenger missions - who's getting excited over parcel delivery missions here?
Is this what we're going to expect over the course of development, tacky, shallow RNG missions?
Well they are not a big company, not by a long shot, SME is probably the closet actual description I can think of. And they don't have an unlimited pot of cash or a publishers big pockets to fall back on either.
Lets put it this way SC has far more money and people working on it than ED, and we all know the state of that at the moment. You then look at the other end of the spectrum, for example NMS and you can see why that game is the way it is as well.
Point being that FD are doing what they can with the resources available, they also have other projects on the go as well (known or otherwise). If they concentrate their efforts in other areas first then other areas will also suffer, areas that people want to see in the game. They can't really win in the end as everyone wants something different out of the game.
Admittedly I thought we would be further along in development by now, but then there is a lot of stuff going on in the background that we don't know about (or we do, just not been officially talked about). For me other than the delay to Engineers and subsequently to 2.2 FD have been bang on the money for me so far and have delivered what i was expecting them to.
Excellent post!
I could not agree more. So many times we have heard the 'Don't make ED like Eve'.
What a load of hogwash. There are a lot of things in eve that this game badly needs. It could learn a lot from Eve. Just because notthat game is not to your tastes does not mean there are not valuable things in it.
This game needs system growth. We need to be able to influence individual systems beyond just being able to push an influence bar. Economies should be dependent on their performance. Each type of economy should need particular items to run smoothly when this happens it should increase wealth level. When this is held at a certain threshold for an extended period of time it should trigger changes within the system itself. Bases should spawn on planets (something Michael has talked about in the future). Those mini bases that already exist should produce raw materials that need to be transported to the main stations tec. When a system runs smoothly things get better or worse if neglected. As wealth increases security response and strength increases. Expansion systems should actually do something. They should compliment the home system as a chain of systems fall under the control of a minor faction. Mining colonies should compliment a refinery system under control of the minor faction. Distance between these systems should be a factor. Population levels should rise and fall.
I could write a book on the changes I would love to bring to this game. If FD started to implement this sort of stuff into the game you would find that ED would suddenly have a purpose to play. For those who just like to play the game as it is now, they could continue to do so but for those seeking more depth this would provide goals and teamwork beyond upgrading your ship. A chance to think beyond the personal and be part of something bigger with other people. Something they can feel a personal reward from. Without small steps being made toward these goals with each major release, ED will never get there. We will just see a constant stream of 'more stuffs' as Sandro put it on that last live stream. ED will continue to be a shallow ship buying simulator and never grow beyond that basic upgrade game model of the original Elite that in fairness was restriced by 32K of RAM.
This is not the 1980's. We are not restricted by 32K of RAM. Why are we still plugging 1980's game models? David Braben said he wanted ED to be as ground breaking as the original Elite was in 1984. But we are still plugging that 'upgrade your ship until there is nothing else to do model'. Why?
Make the game ground breaking David.
Break the mold.
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What we do not know from SC or ED
1) How much of the money received actually goes into paying people to do something beneficial to the game.
2) Which company is more efficient and by what factor.
These two things can change the production output completely.
SO what are you expecting then? Now come on, lay it out here, are you expecting something really deep like for example the X series of games, because that isn't going to happen. FD for me have balanced the game pretty well from a point of view of acceptability against a deep simulation game.
ED is no less shallow than say Freelancer was for example, or Frontier/FFE for that matter. I think you need to maybe reign in the expectations, or maybe wait for a game from someone else that full fills your needs. The majority of people here who like the game are not 'blind' idiots, don't be so disingenuous to your fellow gamers.
Didn't catch the stream, I'm really hoping FD isn't putting NPC crew into the singular fighter basket. It's not my place to say (or any of us who aren't in the development team) but if you've got crew working as part of a fighter system, surely an NPC crew can't be so far removed from being part of the ship infrastructures larger than one-man fighters? It really seems the next best step to breaking that feeling of isolation without having to implement walking.
The other reason of course, is it opens 2.2 to be enjoyed by everyone, given fighter crews are ship-specific, and passenger movement is quite a specific form of Elite vocation. I'm hoping that if at the moment this is the case, that NPC crew are simply part of the fighter mechanic, that a surge of feedback might make them reevaulate the NPC crew. If not for 2.2, but sooner as there seems to have been a constant resistance to NPC notion from FDev, and I personally think that's a mistake.
Will try catching the feed this afternoon and see whether the concerns are jumping the gun or, as I have a horrid feeling, this is a fighter mechanic they're trumping up without realising it's going to irritate a lot of people if it's not what was assumed yesterday. I do wonder from a Dev perspective if they've misjudged how keen many players are in having some notion of crew, even if its purely aesthetic, on their ships!
The other reason of course, is it opens 2.2 to be enjoyed by everyone, given fighter crews are ship-specific, and passenger movement is quite a specific form of Elite vocation. I'm hoping that if at the moment this is the case, that NPC crew are simply part of the fighter mechanic, that a surge of feedback might make them reevaulate the NPC crew. If not for 2.2, but sooner as there seems to have been a constant resistance to NPC notion from FDev, and I personally think that's a mistake.
Will try catching the feed this afternoon and see whether the concerns are jumping the gun or, as I have a horrid feeling, this is a fighter mechanic they're trumping up without realising it's going to irritate a lot of people if it's not what was assumed yesterday. I do wonder from a Dev perspective if they've misjudged how keen many players are in having some notion of crew, even if its purely aesthetic, on their ships!
It came up earlier in the thread - FDev have ~260 Employees and revenue of around £22 million/annum. IIRC The EU definition of 'medium' is >250 and turnover around £40m. So they are definitely on the large end of small, or the small end of medium.
How many employees do RSI/CIG have dotted around the planet? I can't imagine they are an order of magnitude bigger than FDev? A quick google suggests CIG had ~268 employees in 2014? Of course that could be 4 programmers, 4 artists and 260 accountants and catering staff. FD are pretty inefficient I am pretty sure of that, they do things fairly slowly, but thats just the way they are.
I doesn't come down to just those things, its also public perception as well, and in that regard SC is far lower down the scale than ED is currently thats for sure.
ED is in no way a perfect game, it has its faults, but getting hung up on them to the point where people are spewing their guts out on forums with 'I quit' style posts isnt really helping.
If so then no one from FD is looking at their forums (which we know is not the case). Ever time there is a thread on npc crew or wings there is massive support for it. Now that is not to say FD have to implement every feature we want, but it should make them aware there is a want for those features.
A little segue not aimed at any 1 person
IMO there are a lot of very good posts about things which are missing from ED in this thread... it is a shame some just have to take it to far, basically insinuating people who like the game are shallow / stupid pricks (paraphrasing but its pretty much on the money imo). I will stick my neck out and say NO ONE thinks ED is perfect, I sure as hell dont..
I have been called a white knight and a whiner on these boards - often in the same thread
and imo FD have made a few design decisions i personally do not like, but when push comes to shove every one of us needs to ask the question..... Do you basically like the game?. IF yes then great, it is fun to engage in chat about what we like and dislike..but if no, if ultimately a player dislikes the very core of the game then lets be realistic, ED will (hopefully) flesh out and improve but it is not going to change radically at the core of the game, and if you dislike it so much then, you are just dragging yourself and everyone around you down with your contempt imo.
but no matter what side of the fence you fall, no one is stupid or shallow or a white knight or a whiner for liking or disliking different stuff to you.
PS I think one of the main points on the "Dont make ED like EVE" or at least the ones i get involved in - so speaking for my own view here - the thing i do not want to go like EVE, and ED never will (touches wood) is to make it player controlled and built around guilds and what not.
some times players come in and they want agency on stations/systems and to be able to control who goes where in "their" or "their clans" area of space.
Frankly EVE is a great game, but that 1 feature would kill ED for me, and not having it is why i backed.
but that is not to say EVE does not have lots of stuff FD could do well to "borrow" ideas from
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See Jex, this is the problem, I have not seen one post claiming Elite D is 'perfect', not one. I have not seen one person saying you cannot complain, there are people such as myself that are a bit weary of the perma complainers such as yourself, weary because we feel you haven't invested time in the BGS and the nuances of it, and various other aspects.
Also your claim about people asking you and others for a slightly sunnier outlook 'not being gamers' is just plain insulting to many of them, can you only be a 'gamer' if you complain about everything Jex?, can you only be a 'gamer' if you bemoan releases and features you have not even tried yet?
You then get onto the crux of the issue, and, I believe, the issue that proves the point I'm trying to make, you bemoan all of the so far announced features, features you have only seen a glimpse of, features that you have not touched or seen in full yet, features that may look and feel very different in 6-8 weeks time. This is the point Jex, pure negativity and based on what?, a few teaser presentations - does that sound fair and balanced to you?
It's hard to tell how efficient the developpment is.
To me it seems FD has good long term plan on how they want to layer things from bottom up.
IMO this is a much smarter approach than SC where they do everything, at the same time
in one go. Project management nightmare.
Sure, FD release stuff that is barebone, but it is usually functional and they have shown that
they build slowly over it. Also, I would not be surprised if a lot of people are already working
on atmospheric planets, procedural generation of more detailed surface features for a while now.
These things take a long time. Start to work on several of them at once and you have a lot
of manpower in the pipeline.
To me it seems FD has good long term plan on how they want to layer things from bottom up.
IMO this is a much smarter approach than SC where they do everything, at the same time
in one go. Project management nightmare.
Sure, FD release stuff that is barebone, but it is usually functional and they have shown that
they build slowly over it. Also, I would not be surprised if a lot of people are already working
on atmospheric planets, procedural generation of more detailed surface features for a while now.
These things take a long time. Start to work on several of them at once and you have a lot
of manpower in the pipeline.
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