What projectile speed do YOU believe plasma should have?

OK, I have an agenda - yes, this is a ‘buff plasma shot speed’ request.

During 2.1 Beta cannons rightly received a massive buff to their previously risible projectile velocity. Plasma stayed the same. Here is how they compare now:-

PlasmaCannon
Huge700750
Large700800
Medium700875

Before the buff, cannons were much slower than plasma - the huge was almost half the speed.

For the avoidance of doubt I’m not asking for a cadence to be added to plasma, by weapon size - the fact that all plasma projectiles have the same velocity is a good thing, though the velocity itself may not be.

I know that it may seem odd to compare plasma with cannons as the two are so different but such a comparison is natural for some of us, because for so long plasma and cannons were the only two huge weapons available. For the stats of all weapons in game, see my thread here:

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/246086-Official-FDev-Damage-Stats-for-Every-Weapon

It is worth noting that the low distributor draw of cannons and multi-cannons mean that missed shots are largely ‘free’, whereas with plasma, every miss hurts.

At the same time, the likely speed of the target vessel has altered drastically (in PvP, at least). Compare Plasma’s 700 speed to the approx max speed of some typical combat builds, pre- and post- 2.1:

2.02.1
Fer-de-Lance390480
iCourier390600
iClipper430530

One point to note is that increasing the speeds of the targets effectively buffs the relative effectiveness of hit scan weapons compared to those that require lead. In short, 2.1 has reduced the effectiveness of plasma relative to both cannons and lasers. Indeed, I would go further and argue that plasma's relative effectiveness has also reduced compared to multis, by reason of the greater effect that the target's speed has on accuracy when you are firing shots at 700 mps rather than 1,600 mps.

It seems to me that in a faster Galaxy, plasma deserves a bit of shot speed love.

Do you agree? And whether you agree or not, what projectile speed do YOU believe plasma should have?
 
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How about 1k m/s for plasma in general (give/take modding via engineers affects projectile speeds)?
The big drawback of plasma is heat generated per shot,
with the current thermal meta that is a very big one.
Plasma deserves to be a bit faster than cannon shots for that big drawback.
 
I'd rather keep the speed as it is but increase the reward, if I need an easier to hit weapon I got a wide selection to select from.

But I am not adverse to increasing the reward for a landed shot.

Maybe an engineer mod that can alter this though?
 
Come on be serious, an atmospheric railgun in the 21st century travels at 2km/s and can exceed the 3km/s, a standard cannon bullet at 1750m/s, how in the hell, in the 33rd century, the bullet speed in the void will be 700m/s? is ridiculous. Is the science in reverse in ED universe? where is the scientific accuracy that Mr. Braben talked yesterday?
 
I am just going to say, Plasma bolts travel in both directions.

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Come on be serious, an atmospheric railgun in the 21st century travels at 2km/s and can exceed the 3km/s, a standard cannon bullet at 1750m/s, how in the hell, in the 33rd century, the bullet speed in the void will be 700m/s? is ridiculous. Is the science in reverse in ED universe? where is the scientific accuracy that Mr. Braben talked yesterday?

Gameplay concessions.
 
100% opposed to increasing the projectile speed... plasma has always been tricky to use but satisfying when you do land a volley, especially when you nail a viper from 2 kilometres, it's one of the few weapons in elite that requires talent to use & that makes it fun

only thing plasma needs is proper engineer mods, because grade 2 are garbage & the specials are hardly exciting. cannons have the same problem
 
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I think 800m/s is a good speed for them, but I would say to also add an Engineer mod for projectile speed with slightly reduced weapon damage, allowed to be used on plasmas, cannons, and frags.
 
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I would say to also add an Engineer mod for projectile speed with slightly reduced weapon damage, allowed to be used on plasmas, cannons, and frags.

Yes, this could be achieved just by permitting the long range mod to be more widely accessible.
 
Come on be serious, an atmospheric railgun in the 21st century travels at 2km/s and can exceed the 3km/s, a standard cannon bullet at 1750m/s, how in the hell, in the 33rd century, the bullet speed in the void will be 700m/s? is ridiculous. Is the science in reverse in ED universe? where is the scientific accuracy that Mr. Braben talked yesterday?

For the same reason there is a cap on the top speeds of ships in game - it doesn't make for good gameplay otherwise. Also - what you are looking for are rail guns or lasers.

If you want a handwavium reason - any faster and it will destabilize the particles.
 
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100% opposed to increasing the projectile speed... plasma has always been tricky to use but satisfying when you do land a volley, especially when you nail a viper from 2 kilometres, it's one of the few weapons in elite that requires talent to use & that makes it fun

only thing plasma needs is proper engineer mods, because grade 2 are garbage & the specials are hardly exciting. cannons have the same problem
I got Phasing Sequence mods on my 2 Huge Plasmas on Corvette. Upon hit of shielded Elite Anaconda, it immediately looses 2-4% of hull while it's shields are up. I find that mod incredibly useful in PvP if I encounter cookie Cutter with 8k shields.
 
100% opposed to increasing the projectile speed... plasma has always been tricky to use but satisfying when you do land a volley, especially when you nail a viper from 2 kilometres, it's one of the few weapons in elite that requires talent to use & that makes it fun

only thing plasma needs is proper engineer mods, because grade 2 are garbage & the specials are hardly exciting. cannons have the same problem

I end up feeling more like I got lucky than satisfied by my skill. High distro draw, slow speed, slow rate of fire, high heat gen, highesr power draw..something needs to give considering the competition in the C4 spot now. Speed, draw, heat...something, it isn't good enough to use anymore, particularly when put up against engineered variants of other weapons.
 
I got Phasing Sequence mods on my 2 Huge Plasmas on Corvette. Upon hit of shielded Elite Anaconda, it immediately looses 2-4% of hull while it's shields are up. I find that mod incredibly useful in PvP if I encounter cookie Cutter with 8k shields.

Problem as I see it with phasing is that any one with a lick of sense were it is useful is just going to leave when the hull drops too low for their liking, since it only imposes hull damage and where it is useful is against shield tanks they wont have any cases of malfunctions.

I wish to see my target blow, not just leave. The other special effects are kind of meh, I wish to have more damage on my plasma not less and all the effects reduce it. (Not considering the "damage based on heat" effect since that only kicks in to do more at 100% below that and it deals 25% less. Add to that that firing plasma at 100% is asking for malfunctions)

Edit: Not sure about the target lock effect if it has damage reduction
 
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I absolutely agree that the speed either needs to be buffed or the damage ought to be increased, or some other less obvious changes be made.

The cannon buff was great, but I tend to use a PA alongside a gimballed cannon once target shields are down, aiming with the PA and trying to steady the ship to get a decent gimballed shot from the cannon at the same time. Before, the PA shot travelled quicker than the cannon, and you had to aim at the lead indicator closer to the target ship. The change meant relearning to aim at the further one, but that's neither here nor there. Because besides the cannon buff, the other change was a correction of the PA which had accidentally been given all kinetic damage before. I hadn't realised why it was so effective against hull until I found that out.

So the cannon buff both made the cannon easier to hit with than a PA, but also reduced the effectiveness of the PA a little (if you happened to use it against hulls once the shields were down), though it does better against shields now with its correct mixed thermal/kinetic damage. The cannon also no longer loses damage over range.

The problem is that the cannon is more effective against hull and also one of the best weapons for penetrating and damaging internal modules... and now the PA is looking a little anaemic against the cannon. It essentially fires like a cannon, but the shot is slower, the damage is not so optimised against one thing (shields or hull), it uses huge amounts of weapon capacitor compared to the almost non-existent usage of the cannon, generates large amounts of heat compared to the cannon, has a lower rate of fire and takes longer to reload. Oh and also has much more demanding power requirements for fitting. And cannot be gimballed or turreted like the cannon. And is also much more expensive (meh, might as well mention it).

Against that it does more damage per shot, and is more effective against shields because of the thermal component... which is nice because if the lasers aren't bringing the shields down fast enough, and I see an SCB triggered, it's great to be able to alpha a decent amount of thermal damage to try to collapse them before the SCB repairs enough. But having said that, that's still a lot of downsides for not too many upsides.

I'm not sure shot speed necessarily needs to be buffed, but given that the PA is now harder to hit with than a cannon (probably harder to hit with than any weapon, though I'm happy to be corrected on that), there ought to be something.

I also love the PA. You're essentially shooting small suns at enemy ships. It ought to be a great weapon, and it's even better that it's challenging to use. So I'm not sure if I'd go with upped shot speed or damage, but maybe something less defined.

It isn't especially good at penetration... but if a PA shot penetrates an internal module, it really ought to nearly reduce it to slag. So I'd suggest PA's have certain special effects by default.

First, how about if they do colossal damage if they penetrate to a module? Each weapon already has a stat for module damage - the PA could be especially effective against internals, leaving the cannon to reign supreme at flat damage to hull with its kinetic damage and even still be better at penetration... while missiles remain the best way of knocking out external modules. So you still need to wear down the hull a bit to be likely to get a penetrating hit with a PA, so internals don't get sniped out immediately.

Or secondly, perhaps the PA could have a good chance of inflicting a malfunction on a module it penetrates to, representing the havoc it plays with them if it gets through armour?

This would give the PA a specific role as the weapon that is hardest to hit accurately with, but if you do... it does very effective damage to internals. The high skill ceiling internal module killer.

In the absence of that though - yes, I'd say it needs a little adjustment. I'd struggle to pick a number, but it'd be nice if it isn't the same as cannons, since I like that you have to pay attention to your different lead indicators and know which one is for which weapon. Or maybe just up the damage some? I like the challenge of hitting with it currently.

Wow, my actual answer to your specific question was super-vague.

I feel like it ought to have its damage upgraded a little if nothing else.
 
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