Horizons NPC ships seem OP to me

[CMDR Barney Five]

I played Elite for quite a while, then took a break for a few months. After the Engineers update I came back because I was curious about the crafting. I really like that element of the game but the NPC ships seem really OP now. I fly a kitted Anaconda + Engineer buffs on most of my ship systems and all of my weapons. Nevertheless, smaller ships now routinely strip my shields in only a few hits. I feel like I've upgraded my ship by leaps and bounds by spending hours collecting materials from all points in the galaxy for no good reason at all.

I'd like to see the damage that NPC ships inflict nerfed quite considerably. The game does feel more "dangerous" now, but it's not more fun. A commander flying a ship like I have should not have to run from smaller ships but that is now the state of the game. I had a much more enjoyable time (which is why I play games) playing the game before the Engineers update. I would still get run out of a CZ or RES site from time to time but it was because multiple ships would attack me at once. That seemed a very reasonable thing to me if I had bitten off more than I could chew by attacking a wing of 3. That was balanced. I know this isn't everyone's opinion, but is mine.

Frontier, can you give me some of my fun back? Not everybody is Commander HardCoreGamer.

 

[xGundam]

I totally agree. After I came back from some inactivity I got literally reckt. NPCs are way too good imho. Especially in CZ: if you get targeted by 2 or 3 ships you almost have no time to escape..

 

[Privata]

I find the AI to be brain dead.

They just dont even try , but maybe thats just me

 

[xGundam]

I find the AI to be brain dead.

They just dont even try , but maybe thats just me

What i don't like is the damage output.. it seems too high recently.. When I left I used to have no problems in my python, then I got killed twice in the same day. Hopefully it's not me.

 

[foebits]

The AI is only marginally smarter than they were, but the damage they output has been hugely increased. My problem is with eagles as they seem to have the dps of god himself. 2 of them can strip my conda's shields with 4 pips in systems and constantly shield boosting in under 10 seconds. This should not be the case.

 

[Wulf]

I want them to bring back the harder AI from when 2.1 was first released. But first they need to remove the AI cheating such as no heat, unlimited ammo and ludicrous maneuverability. Deadly and elite AI seem to have a tether so their guns are always on you no matter how you maneuver. This is painful since they never miss.

 

[xGundam]

I want them to bring back the harder AI from when 2.1 was first released. But first they need to remove the AI cheating such as no heat, unlimited ammo and ludicrous maneuverability. Deadly and elite AI seem to have a tether so their guns are always on you no matter how you maneuver. This is painful since they never miss.

THIS!

 

[Squire]

Lots of us have noticed the same thing, and there's a huge debate about it going on. My fully A-rated vulture used to have a decent time of it in combat zones, but when I came back to the game after a while, having just bought Horizons, I entered a combat zone and got ripped to shreds every time. I couldn't even run because they'd just take out my engines. I don't know if the AI is any better, but their weapons do seem a lot more powerful now. I'm also finding that chaff seems to do nothing... I'm pumping it out like it's going out of fashion and they're still hitting me all the time with their beam laser turrets. Oh, shield cells do practically nothing as well - I deploy them while I still have one ring blue and it makes no noticable difference whatsoever (maybe it won't fully recharge because I'm still getting shot at but still, it should do something), but when they use them it's instant full recharge every time, even when I'm shooting at them.

This seems to have happened since I installed Horizons, so maybe engineer mods have something to do with it. A week before that, I went into a CZ and had a similar level of success to what I had before (win some, lose some, get a bit shot up but can usually escape if need be), but once I installed Engineers, I had no chance of even getting out alive. I don't know if it's that or the timing of it, but I do know that, as it stands, CZs are pretty much off the cards for me.

People can say what they want, but let me get one thing clear: I'm all in favour of good AI. I want NPC ships that are tough. However, they have to play fair. I know, git gudder and all that, but considering a lot of people are saying the same thing now, don't you think maybe it's worth at least looking into? Maybe it's true that we all suck and were just enjoying easy opponents before, or maybe there's something added recently that's inadvertently given them an unfair advantage. I'm not asking for anything to be nerfed (especially not the AI - bring on the good AI, I say!), I just want to be sure that AI opponents are playing by the same rules we do. It's a huge jump to go from "reasonably good in combat zones" to "unable to enter one and survive long enough to make a single kill", it can't be just that the AI has gotten a bit better.

 

[avow555]

The NPC you encounter are now locked to your Elite rating as well, so if you're Deadly your only gonna get Deadly and Elite ships as opponents. Higher ranked ships also have more modded kit.
Some players have asked for their Elite rating to be reduced so they can cope with the current NPCs!

Personally I must say the devs have picked the wrong mechanism here as the Danger should increase due to location and mission difficulty.

 

[Ian Skippy]

People can say what they want, but let me get one thing clear: I'm all in favour of good AI. I want NPC ships that are tough. However, they have to play fair. I know, git gudder and all that, but considering a lot of people are saying the same thing now, don't you think maybe it's worth at least looking into? Maybe it's true that we all suck and were just enjoying easy opponents before, or maybe there's something added recently that's inadvertently given them an unfair advantage. I'm not asking for anything to be nerfed (especially not the AI - bring on the good AI, I say!), I just want to be sure that AI opponents are playing by the same rules we do. It's a huge jump to go from "reasonably good in combat zones" to "unable to enter one and survive long enough to make a single kill", it can't be just that the AI has gotten a bit better.

Sure, just show me a vid of these insane killer AI. Because there are loads of vids from people claiming the AI is *not* ungodly good, but there is zero evidence from the "they are using auto-aim, cannot be evaded, have no ammo count blabkla" folks. Zero evidence. Noppa, nada. So we have two possible theories:

1) The AI just got better and is now using its abilities somewhat okayish (but still nowhere near the level of a good player). The 'Its not fair" people simply overestimate themselves.
2) All the evidence is fake and edited by people with some hidden agenda, and all stories of these unfair AI are actually true. There is just no evidence for it because [insert improbable reason here].

Lots of people have been saying AI cheats with number of chaff and SCB charges. All I can conclude is that lots of people here cannot count to four or five, and 11 respectively. May sound rough, but at this point most 'seasoned' cmdrs here are going to discoubt any claims that go directly against both evidence and experience, unless some evidence can be presented to counter it. And so far every single time someone did that it was extremely clear that cmdr had no clue as to what he was doing. For example, you can more than double your shield strength with four pips in shields when under fire. You can double your armor in a Python by putting two HRPs in a C2 and C3 slot. That means you get a 100% bonus to armor at the expensive of 12t of cargo space! When combined it makes a trade Python FOUR TIMES more durable for 100k, 12t of cargo space and some basic pip management.

Generally it isnt about twitch reflexes or some such skill. Its about understanding how the modules work and interact.

 

[FatalionPanic]

Seeing Elite Dangerous covered in videos of the current Gamescom made me come back to see what's new.

Back before Horizons/Engineers I was able to solo 3 Vulture NPCs in my Vulture - not easily, the thrill was great! Considered myself to be a pretty good pilot.
After getting comfortable with the controls and ships again I went into some fights: I've tried the Federal Assault Ship and Vulture and can't seem to get anywhere with them like I used to. Same 3 Vulture pocket I remember hurt my Vulture badly, had to bail before getting through any of their shields.

What's changed? Solo impossible now? Max Engineers upgrades required to be able to solo?
Definitely less fun than back then.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Seeing Elite Dangerous covered in videos of the current Gamescom made me come back to see what's new.

Back before Horizons/Engineers I was able to solo 3 Vulture NPCs in my Vulture - not easily, the thrill was great! Considered myself to be a pretty good pilot.
After getting comfortable with the controls and ships again I went into some fights: I've tried the Federal Assault Ship and Vulture and can't seem to get anywhere with them like I used to. Same 3 Vulture pocket I remember hurt my Vulture badly, had to bail before getting through any of their shields.

What's changed? Solo impossible now? Max Engineers upgrades required to be able to solo?
Definitely less fun than back then.

No, solo is still possible, and you dont engineered mods. You just need to start thinking about which battles to engage. A wing of three Vultures, espescially high-ranked, should be very difficult.

 

[Wulf]

The NPC you encounter are now locked to your Elite rating as well, so if you're Deadly your only gonna get Deadly and Elite ships as opponents. Higher ranked ships also have more modded kit.
Some players have asked for their Elite rating to be reduced so they can cope with the current NPCs!

Personally I must say the devs have picked the wrong mechanism here as the Danger should increase due to location and mission difficulty.

I'd agree the AI should be more difficult based on higher ranking and more dangerous missions. My problem is how is being done, with essentially cheating AI all that is making them harder to fight. When 2.1 came out it showed that the AI could be skilled, so why not go back to that but make the AI follow the same rules we do.

I've got the Elite combat rank so mainly fight Deadly and Elite ships and frankly I find it boring as hell. They always go the same way with infinite chaff and shield cell spam. Then you have the their guns on you the entire fight with even a boost FA off maneuver not keeping the guns off you for more than a few seconds. I've seen large ships like anacondas flying like eagles pulling off speeds and maneuvers that far out way any player ship even with upgrades.

 

[Luponator]

The NPC you encounter are now locked to your Elite rating as well, so if you're Deadly your only gonna get Deadly and Elite ships as opponents. Higher ranked ships also have more modded kit.
Some players have asked for their Elite rating to be reduced so they can cope with the current NPCs!

Personally I must say the devs have picked the wrong mechanism here as the Danger should increase due to location and mission difficulty.

You mean like bringing a concept from the 84 Elite back? That'd make sense, we don't do that here.
You're absolutely right, yes!

 

[xGundam]

The 'Its not fair" people simply overestimate themselves.

I don't agree..
To me it's not fair that AI is this powerful ( yeah, they are OP imho, I just dunno why ) but I have a 3.150 K/D ratio on CQC and I like to use fitting tools, calculate things to gain the best ship and so on.. so nope, I do not overestimate myself. Solo combat is still viable, what is nearly impossible is a fight against 2 or more opponents.

No, solo is still possible, and you dont engineered mods. You just need to start thinking about which battles to engage. A wing of three Vultures, espescially high-ranked, should be very difficult.

I can agree with this: 3 vulture should be very powerful.. after all they have a total of 6 large Hardpoints

 

[foebits]

Sure, just show me a vid of these insane killer AI. Because there are loads of vids from people claiming the AI is *not* ungodly good, but there is zero evidence from the "they are using auto-aim, cannot be evaded, have no ammo count blabkla" folks. Zero evidence. Noppa, nada. So we have two possible theories:

1) The AI just got better and is now using its abilities somewhat okayish (but still nowhere near the level of a good player). The 'Its not fair" people simply overestimate themselves.
2) All the evidence is fake and edited by people with some hidden agenda, and all stories of these unfair AI are actually true. There is just no evidence for it because [insert improbable reason here].

Lots of people have been saying AI cheats with number of chaff and SCB charges. All I can conclude is that lots of people here cannot count to four or five, and 11 respectively. May sound rough, but at this point most 'seasoned' cmdrs here are going to discoubt any claims that go directly against both evidence and experience, unless some evidence can be presented to counter it. And so far every single time someone did that it was extremely clear that cmdr had no clue as to what he was doing. For example, you can more than double your shield strength with four pips in shields when under fire. You can double your armor in a Python by putting two HRPs in a C2 and C3 slot. That means you get a 100% bonus to armor at the expensive of 12t of cargo space! When combined it makes a trade Python FOUR TIMES more durable for 100k, 12t of cargo space and some basic pip management.

Generally it isnt about twitch reflexes or some such skill. Its about understanding how the modules work and interact.

Yes, because people are magically going to know when a god NPC is going to spawn so they can record it, just for you, just you can say it's been faked. Get over yourself.

 

[rrobes]

Everybody is right!

If it can be believed, both sides of the argument, too hard/too soft, are right depending:

RNG (which NPC spawns)
Combat rating
Ship size
Cargo
Mission
Location CZ, RES, USS, etc.

There are probably more variables at play.

It the last several weeks I have gotten to level 5 most of the Engineers (currently I am 3750ly from home on the Palin walkabout) and my two ships, an a-class Python with all exp. effects weaponry and modded modules and a mostly modded Corvette have been able to take down almost everything that interdicts one on one (except the psycho ramming god-like elite Anacondas that come up time to time, so I avoid any elite Anaconda that is interdicting). And yes there are NPC's out there that are programmed to kill you very quickly, I have experienced several and lost ships to them, shields gone, snipered modules and you're done.

When in the Python, I get elite/deady/dangerous ships up to FDL size. In the Corvette, I get FDL and Anacondas almost exclusively and elite. With some caution, I have been successful and have started trading again and look forward to interdictions (cut throttle, drop to real space, set my pips, arm, and as soon as the NPC drops in, I wait for the scan to clear and open up, FDL's usually pay out 250 mill CR and are my favorite target).

What I am doing is nothing special, I have elite combat rank and I know that my skills aren't anything extraordinary but with some thoughtful flying, F/A off/on, good equipment and staying within your ship's performance envelope, you can survive and thrive.

 

[xGundam]

So.. I tested something: Me and a friend of mine went into a CZ.

We experienced really strong AIs, in particular pythons. They used to activate SCBs one after another, like nothing happend ( no heat? ), tons of chaffs were used and their weapons felt like... well op.
Moreover: as a python I struggled to keep my guns on an enemy vulture, as a vulture i struggled to stay behind a python... I see no logic in that.
Anyway we managed to kill 39 ships then we both quit because it was too tiring. I can't imagine kill 1000 ships for the powerplay sake.

I'm quitting the game until something changes, I will still be here for some days to answer you.

 

[CMDR Barney Five]

What i don't like is the damage output.. it seems too high recently.. When I left I used to have no problems in my python, then I got killed twice in the same day. Hopefully it's not me.

@xGundam is right. It's not the AI that is the problem. It's that the lethality level of NPC ships is too high by a lot. Being a Deadly NPC doesn't mean your lasers should be 6x more powerful. Just nerf the damage and leave the rest alone and we'll adjust. That's all we're saying. I actually think all the rest of the new enhancements are great.

 

[D.G.Cerberus]

FDL's usually pay out 250 mill CR and are my favorite target).

What I am doing is nothing special, I have elite combat rank and I know that my skills aren't anything extraordinary but with some thoughtful flying, F/A off/on, good equipment and staying within your ship's performance envelope, you can survive and thrive.

250Mill Cr??? Is this a typo!?? If not then I have been seriously missing out!
I'm only Dangerous ranked in combat however only get Elite FDLs and Anacondas when I am interdicted too.
Whilst mission running, (in the 'Vette - works 'cos only short - medium haul runs and FSD is modded), I have to date operated as I always did - Submit, bit of boost, jump to next system. Again, in the 'Vette, a 7A Shield generator (slightly modded) and 4 or 5 various modded shield boosters have meant that I haven't ever lost a single ring doing this whatever attacks they get in before I jump....

But as I am cautious but relatively comfortable with this AI level it seems I am missing some lucrative opportunities here to swell my bank balance. And as I am far from a billionaire (never did the Sothis/ Ceos runs etc) that would be quite welcome!