2.2's Instant Ship and Module Transport - Yay or Nay?

[Cmdr Mnumen]

I hate the idea of an instant transfer and think it is very likely to at the least change the way any (most) people play the game, and will probably unbalance the gameplay.

I really don't see what the objection is to a timed transfer. For most people in the bubble this would be relatively short - 30 min, maybe a little more - and it's not like they can't be doing something else in this time.

Personally I'd require that the ship has sufficient FSD range to make the journey too because we don't have ships that carry other ships apart from fighters - so someone is flying your ship. And I'd have the amount you pay linked to the reputation of the pilot you hire to transfer the ship, with cheap options (i.e. more shady/desperate characters) carrying a risk of your ship being stolen (which could make for some interesting bounty hunting options). But this is just me, I can live without these bit, but instant transfer just doesn't sit right with me. It's a step too far away from realism IMHO.

 

[[DOOK] Droogie]

Ignoring the argument and reiterating a refuted point is simply trolling.

I'm applying the same logic you used. It isn't apples to to apples in either situation. Respawn is an in game event that needs an in game explanation if other events need an in game explanation.

 

[CMDR_COM_TRUISE]

ETA based on lightyears might get crazy. ETA based on jumps could work, with credits dished out to cut time in half etc. instant travel trivializes the travel and fittings in general. why dont i just instant warp myself everywhere then, not to mention gameplay mechanics now that revolve around essentially some bogus instant magic. not exactly a deal breaker for me regarding Elite, just another step in the wrong direction...

 

[Cmdr Mnumen]

Well, try to imagine that in future the stations around Jaques will start to sell A rated modules and that FDL itself will be available in several shipyards. Where is the difference between "flying with a long-range Anaconda to Jaques Station just to zapp and beam their super-duper FDL to there" and "sell the super-duper FDL at bubble, fly with a long-range Anaconda to Jaques Station and buy the same super-duper FDL once again around the Jaques" ???

I can see only one difference. The second option will be much cheaper.

That'd be a fine option oince the capacity is there and if your ship is completely unmodified - but if you can't reproduce your bespoke engineer upgraded weapons without the engineer out there to do the work...

 

[cheesenbiscuits]

If it's from Beagle Point, then the delay should be at least a day since the fastest time to Beagle Point was around 24 hours. Closer ships could have shorter wait times. But honestly I would be fine with a 1 day wait period just to keep the server from being bogged down with timers. (though mission timers seem to work just fine!)

Btw, I didn't move the goal post. You made a false equivalence between instant events. If they have different consequences on immersion and gameplay, then two instantaneous events are NOT equivalent. In the same way that one infinity can be larger than another.

Its got to be instant,the dude who's making the game said so.

Can any further discussion try and keep this in mind,i feel its quite key.

 

[Bambi]

I'm applying the same logic you used. It isn't apples to to apples in either situation. Respawn is an in game event that needs an in game explanation if other events need an in game explanation.

Apples are red. The car is red. Therefore the car = apple.

 

[Toumal]

Droogie, what do you think about 1 minute per 100ly? Fast enough to not be a session-preventing wait, long enough to not be magic. Jaques transfer would take 3.6 hours, but for such distances some planning can be made required.

 

[Bambi]

Its got to be instant,the dude who's making the game said so.

They've been open to change before, so that does not follow.

 

[OriginalBadBoy]

I see this thread has gone to the dogs. Some of the arguments here (on both sides) are quite frankly pathetic.

As i stated early on .. I'm not sure frontier is going to win this one either way,, but then when does it.

It pains me but one of the features that I have been looking forward to for a long time might be best left out of the game.

 

[[DOOK] Droogie]

Droogie, what do you think about 1 minute per 100ly? Fast enough to not be a session-preventing wait, long enough to not be magic. Jaques transfer would take 3.6 hours, but for such distances some planning can be made required.

Again. I'm fine with a wait. I just don't want to be sitting around for days.

 

[Cageman]

You didn't actually read what I was saying. People were arguing against it based on immersion. I used the other mechanics just like it that are already in game to ask why one breaks it but not the rest. If all of this other stuff is instant, why does this one thing break immersion while those don't?

I'm not even giving my point of view. I'm simply calling out what I see as flawed logic.

Instant delivery is immersion breaking, delivery is not.

I would want the ship transfers to be grounded in the universe and the time it takes to travel. So, I contact this NPC who will jump into a ship I have 150Lys away from my current position. I ask him to travel with it to my current position. The ship has 15ly jumprange, which will be 10 jumps, and based on that, a timer will be added where I can track the time until my ship arrives.

During this time, I can still play the game with the ship I am currently in. Maybe I can make another trading run? Maybe there is something I would want to explore, etc, etc, etc...

That would not break immersion. I am pretty sure that everyone want this feature, but instant is breaking too many rules in the Elite: Dangerous universe.

 

[Bambi]

It's a different kind of game. Exactly. It doesn't apply to ED, where suspension of disbelief is more important since it's a persistent world.

You aren't comparing apples to apples. Now you're using ad hominem.

I'll start using mean names too if you don't stop trolling.

 

[[DOOK] Droogie]

Apples are red. The car is red. Therefore the car = apple.

CoD vs. ED for in game logic is exactly that.

 

[BigZiggyHD]

I have tried to write this post so many times but each time my blood boils and I get mad thinking about how much Frontier continuously caters to a specific player group which I personally believe won't stick with the game longer than another year. I can't write it without saying nasty things. So i'll drop all that and stick to the facts.

Instant transfer should never have been presented as an idea. Period
1. Goes against the general game architecture of having to build yourself up from nothing.
2. Yes it is completely immersion breaking as are other things in the game which we accepted as game play balance (do you really want a permadeath?)
-In no way does instant transfer make sense. The rebuilt argument is not correct. If you can't even buy that ship there normally how do you just magically construct one out of thin air to mirror one from across the galaxy.
-Engineer upgrades... how does Joe Blow ship builder in Sol accurately copy the modification that a crazy scientist engineer did with rare materials.... (This ties in with the death screen too.

But forget immersion the problem is gameplay
1. Obsidian Ant has a good video on it but first effect is dumbing down the scale of the galaxy let alone the bubble. As a DWE explorer I laugh my head off at you people that are asking for warp gates for inside the bubble too. Like 100 Lys is even far. I've traveled from alliance space to imperial in an eagle with no money and a C class FSD, get over it. It's space. It's big. It's empty.

2. Instant transfer only benefits aforementioned player group. Everyone else can easily get screwed over. As everything in Elite it runs off of news reports of the fastest way to make money, rank, whatever. Someone says hey come here do this thing and profit. Everyone goes there. Griefers hear about head that way. but instead of having to take their combat outfit the distance now they can effectively get there faster than others by taking a hauler taxi and performing the black magic that is instant transfer. Then the players that would normally benefit say they are traders or whatever bringing in their slower poorly armed ships are now met with a blockade of causal corvettes. <- This is the gameplay balance we are talking about.

I firmly believe the people voting for instant transfer are the only people that would benefit where as the rest of the elite player base will be screwed by it. As such the poll is already showing this at the time of me writing this that there is a 60/40% for delay vs. instant.

Final thoughts: I want ship transfer but with a time delay. It needs to have a REAL cost whether it be time and money or loss of engineer upgrades and money. I prefer time and money. Just money is of no consequence in Elite we've got many multi-billionaires in the game.

If you can't afix a true cost to transfer I don't want transfer at all. Of all the things you decided to sacrifice immersion and game play this is what you picked Fdev?

 

[kofeyh]

They're the exaxt same thing. A ship instantaneously appearing in a station, exactly like the old one. Why cant that mechanic be used to replicate a ship in another station? In game here. Immersion.

To a point. Sure. I can fly to Jaques and have my fleet instantly appear. Good-oh. I will feel a bit cheated though. Because as much as that's pretty handy, it makes my flight out seem weird because why did it take me say 15 hours or something worth of game time, if the AI can just magic pixie it instantly?

It makes distance irrelevant.

It's a good feature to add. But that so many want it instant? Tells me it probably shouldn't be.

 

[Frambitam]

Waiting isn't fun. Games are supposed to be fun. We should have to wait to travel to a different map in Call of Duty, if that's the case.

Again, people seem to be imagining that you will have to physically be waiting for hours in game, doing nothing except watch the seconds tick by until your ship arrives. You just arrived at Jaques? Cool, you've probably already put in several hours, it's probably past time for you to go and sleep. Request your ship transfer, got to sleep, and chances are it'll be delivered by the time you log back in. It's not past time for you to go sleep? Guess what? You can still fly around in any ship you can get to that is not currently in transit!

 

[Bambi]

CoD vs. ED for in game logic is exactly that.

No it isn't. They're both action games in which you fight, die, and respawn, losing some progress as a penalty.

 

[[DOOK] Droogie]

I'll start using mean names too if you don't stop trolling.

I'm not trolling. I'm applying your logic to the argument. I've explained my position. If one thing needs an in game explanation, another should, as well. Otherwise, it comes off as arbitrary. I used an existing game mechanic to explain it in universe.

Calling me names doesn't do anything. It is childish and against the ToS, though

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

No it isn't. They're both action games in which you fight, die, and respawn, losing some progress as a penalty.

Then the travel time should apply to both. Since we're generalizing that much.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

Again, people seem to be imagining that you will have to physically be waiting for hours in game, doing nothing except watch the seconds tick by until your ship arrives. You just arrived at Jaques? Cool, you've probably already put in several hours, it's probably past time for you to go and sleep. Request your ship transfer, got to sleep, and chances are it'll be delivered by the time you log back in. It's not past time for you to go sleep? Guess what? You can still fly around in any ship you can get to that is not currently in transit!

Because the amount of wait time some have suggested would require days.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

To a point. Sure. I can fly to Jaques and have my fleet instantly appear. Good-oh. I will feel a bit cheated though. Because as much as that's pretty handy, it makes my flight out seem weird because why did it take me say 15 hours or something worth of game time, if the AI can just magic pixie it instantly?

It makes distance irrelevant.

It's a good feature to add. But that so many want it instant? Tells me it probably shouldn't be.

I was never arguing for instant travel. I was just offering an in game explanation using an existing in game function. That's all.

 

[MyHammer]

I see this thread has gone to the dogs. Some of the arguments here (on both sides) are quite frankly pathetic.

As i stated early on .. I'm not sure frontier is going to win this one either way,, but then when does it.

It pains me but one of the features that I have been looking forward to for a long time might be best left out of the game.

Yep. This discussion goes nowhere, since everything is said and anything more is just to feed the trolls. A lot reasonable arguments have been laid out why it would be good to have a delay on transfer. It`s for FD to decide wether they will listen to us or not.

 

[PavelKCZ]

That'd be a fine option oince the capacity is there and if your ship is completely unmodified - but if you can't reproduce your bespoke engineer upgraded weapons without the engineer out there to do the work...

As I already mentioned, because FD plan to have the second "bubble" around Jaques, there will be probably some Engineers there too. Maybe the second half of them. This is the first argument.
The second argument is that there will be a module storage which will be accessible from all places. So, even if there will be no Engineers around Jaques, you can modify all your modules in bubble, store them, take a Conda, fly to Jaques, buy a brand new FDL and fit your modules from storage to it.

One way or another, there is no reason why there should be some silly delay in ship transfer. The price of such operation will be prohibitive and I bet that the whole mechanic will not be used too often.

And the third argument (just from my personal point of view) is that I really am not concerned about ships of other players. What they are, where they are etc. The NPCs are freely spawning everywhere since the beginning of the game and NPCs are the only ships I am seeing in my Solo game. So transfer or not, it will not change my way of playing.