Engineers Dirty Drives & fuel scoops: A question.

  • Thread starter Deleted member 110222
  • Start date

Deleted member 110222

D
So, let's say I stick on some DD's on my Cobra, which also has an Overcharged PP.

Is this going to be thermal suicide?
 

SCTrojanbulldog

SCTrojanbulldog
OC PP will have an affect on scooping. DD only seem to be an issue during boost and aggressive maneuvering; OC PP will compound this issue.

Personally, DD make the most sense on larger ships that: A) need them and B) seem to handle the additional heat in stride due to more slots for HS or just better heat management.
 
Last edited:

Devari

D
V8UC ALICORN said:
So, let's say I stick on some DD's on my Cobra
Click to expand...

I have a Grade 3 dirty drive tune on all of my ships (except my Type 9 which would be pointless) and although it does add to the base thermal load of the drives this is rarely a major issue unless you're boosting. Boosting does increase thermal load quite significantly and as a result I have to time my boost so that I'm not continually firing all my weapons or using a shield cell at the same time or I can easily get my heat above 100%. When I do get a bit of heat damage it usually isn't a problem but I need to make sure I'm not ignoring it because over time the module damage will add up from prolonged combat. It has never been much of an issue when scooping however as it's just a matter of staying a little farther away from the star and accepting that you will need to a little scoop slower to offset the increased base thermal load and avoid building up too much heat.

V8UC ALICORN said:
which also has an Overcharged PP.
Click to expand...

If you're using a Grade 1 overcharged PP (and I have never needed more than this even on my Vulture) then you might consider re-rolling it with the new blueprints we got with 2.1.05. I put a Grade 1 overcharged PP on my Diamonback Explorer and I managed to get a secondary effect that actually improved my thermal modifier so my overcharged PP produces +7.6% power capacity and is also +2.6% more heat efficient. So you can actually get a power boost out of the new overcharged PP blueprints and manage to slightly improve your thermal efficiency at the same time. Not sure if it is true for the higher-grade overcharged PP but it is definitely possible for the Grade 1 mods after the 2.1.05 changes.

V8UC ALICORN said:
Is this going to be thermal suicide?
Click to expand...

My Python has a "hot" build with quite a bit of excess thermal load from all the mods and the only way for my Python to inflict significant heat damage on itself is to be alpha striking with all my weapons (2 large incendiary multis, 1 large corrosive multi and two medium beam turrets), use a shield cell and boost at the same time. If I do all of those things next to a star, then yes, that is basically thermal suicide and I will see rapid module damage but even then the worst that usually happens is losing my cargo hatch or causing enough damage to cause a weapon or other module malfunction. In general though if you are making reasonable choices to manage your heat then the dirty drive tune on its own is not that much of a problem.
 
Last edited:

Deleted member 110222

D
Thanks guys. I think I'll stick with my original plan to go with CD then. :)
 

domaq

domaq
I've been working this problem for a couple days now and the short answer is, it's is ship dependent.
.
Been testing on Cobra, Asp, Python, Anaconda, and Cutter with Clean-5, Dirty-5, and Overcharged Powerplant-5. I'm having a hard time justifying Clean-5. With Dirty-5, There will be a little more heat while fighting, minimal additional heat in SC, and little difference while scooping but a significantly higher maneuverability and speed.
.
However, the Powerplant has a big impact on scooping. Since all A-grade PP have a power efficiency of 0.4 (which is a multiplier of the MW being used by the ship), increasing this to 0.6 makes a big difference to larger ships that use more power. I can still scoop normally (on the FSD cooldown timer which is my reference) in the Asp, Python, and Anaconda but you will have to temper that with star-type and depth of scooping (you will get hotter much faster). But ships like the Imp Courier, FAS, and Cutter have issues staying in the corona to scoop with the overcharged PP and Dirty-5. Even switching to Clean-5 with overcharged PP, I still had issues. Cobra, DBE, DBS run cool anyway so shouldn't matter.
.
So now I'm looking at the impact of fitting larger size PP with low-power modification for Buckyball jonking.
.
RECOMMENDATION: Fit Dirty-5 on all ships. Period. If heat is an issue, mod powerplant with low-power modification. Ideally, you could get a heat coefficient of .24 which will dramatically reduce your background silhouette and make scooping easier.
 
Last edited:

Deleted member 110222

D
domaq said:
I've been working this problem for a couple days now and the short answer is, it's is ship dependent.
.
Been testing on Cobra, Asp, Python, Anaconda, and Cutter with Clean-5, Dirty-5, and Overcharged Powerplant-5. I'm having a hard time justifying Clean-5. With Dirty-5, There will be a little more heat while fighting, minimal additional heat in SC, and little difference while scooping but a significantly higher maneuverability and speed.
.
However, the Powerplant has a big impact on scooping. Since all A-grade PP have a power efficiency of 0.4 (which is a multiplier of the MW being used by the ship), increasing this to 0.6 makes a big difference to larger ships that use more power. I can still scoop normally (on the FSD cooldown timer which is my reference) in the Asp, Python, and Anaconda but you will have to temper that with star-type and depth of scooping (you will get hotter much faster). But ships like the Imp Courier, FAS, and Cutter have issues staying in the corona to scoop with the overcharged PP and Dirty-5. Even switching to Clean-5 with overcharged PP, I still had issues. Cobra, DBE, DBS run cool anyway so shouldn't matter.
.
So now I'm looking at the impact of fitting larger size PP with low-power modification for Buckyball jonking.
.
RECOMMENDATION: Fit Dirty-5 on all ships. Period. If heat is an issue, mod powerplant with low-power modification. Ideally, you could get a heat coefficient of .24 which will dramatically reduce your background silhouette and make scooping easier.
Click to expand...

Thanks for that good man.

Very much appreciated.
 

goemon

goemon
domaq said:
Since all A-grade PP have a power efficiency of 0.4 (which is a multiplier of the MW being used by the ship), increasing this to 0.6 makes a big difference to larger ships that use more power.
Click to expand...

i didn't know that math! thank you for sharing.

(i assume there is some other multiplier for powerplant class, or a powerplant needs a % of its own MJ for running, because smaller/undersized powerplants produce less heat in a ship in the same loadout - from experience)
 

domaq

domaq
goemon said:
i didn't know that math! thank you for sharing.

(i assume there is some other multiplier for powerplant class, or a powerplant needs a % of its own MJ for running, because smaller/undersized powerplants produce less heat in a ship in the same loadout - from experience)
Click to expand...

I can't tall all the credit for that. Learned it HERE. And, yes, I think there's a lot more to heat calculations than a straight % value. All I know is I need to go mine for some Samarium tonight to get those efficient PP mods.
 

Devari

D
domaq said:
I've been working this problem for a couple days now and the short answer is, it's is ship dependent.
Click to expand...

I believe that there is a ship-specific "heat modifier" that works much like the shield modifiers. Some ships are "cool" and others are "hot" and this is further modified by the power plant's thermal efficiency. It's much like the issues with the Type 6 originally having such a poor thermal efficiency that even with an A-grade power plant it would routinely overheat when jumping if it was anywhere near a star. They eventually fixed this so it didn't have such massive overheating problems but the Type 6 and Keelback are still rather "hot" ships. The Diamondback Explorer tends to be the opposite, it's one of the "cooler" ships and this makes it great for "stealth" builds. Unfortunately we don't have any way of knowing the "true" total thermal modifier for different ships, we sort of need to actually take them out and test them which is why we have such limited numbers available.
 

goemon

goemon
Devari said:
I believe that there is a ship-specific "heat modifier" that works much like the shield modifiers. Some ships are "cool" and others are "hot" and this is further modified by the power plant's thermal efficiency. It's much like the issues with the Type 6 originally having such a poor thermal efficiency that even with an A-grade power plant it would routinely overheat when jumping if it was anywhere near a star. They eventually fixed this so it didn't have such massive overheating problems but the Type 6 and Keelback are still rather "hot" ships. The Diamondback Explorer tends to be the opposite, it's one of the "cooler" ships and this makes it great for "stealth" builds. Unfortunately we don't have any way of knowing the "true" total thermal modifier for different ships, we sort of need to actually take them out and test them which is why we have such limited numbers available.
Click to expand...

we can deduct that from the 2.1. patch-notes: "Rebalanced heat efficiency of the Fer de Lance to offset the increased power plant change" --- e.g. each ship has its own heat efficiency.
 

Frenotx

Frenotx
The big thermal load from dirty drives is actually from the drives thrusting. In supercruise this isn't terribly relevant, do the only heat difference you'll notice is the heat from the increased power draw. If you want to minimize the heat while charging your FSD, do the following:

1) Align, and get up too full speed
2) Turn flight assist off, then zero your throttle
3) Start to charge the FSD, and take your hands off the controls

You'll keep moving coasting enough to initiate the jump, but without the added heat of having the engines running. If you REALLY need some heat savings, turn the thruster module off after turning flight assist off. As long as you switch them back on just before the jump initiates, everything will work.
 

Frenotx

Frenotx
goemon said:
we can deduct that from the 2.1. patch-notes: "Rebalanced heat efficiency of the Fer de Lance to offset the increased power plant change" --- e.g. each ship has its own heat efficiency.
Click to expand...

This is actually the subject of my next big research thread, so keep an eye out for that. ;3
 

goemon

goemon

Frenotx

Frenotx
goemon said:
amazing! there was an old thread looking at power plant sizes and grades (on a DBE) with some irritating results: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...plorer-heat-emissions-and-signature-detection

... maybe your test can shed lights on this.

basically the question is (for me): how does powerplant size comes into that heat calculation (heat efficiency * power usage)?
Click to expand...

All the powerplant seems to do is this: for every MW utilized by modules, heat is generated by the powerplant at the rate of [heat efficiency stat] * [MW usage]. Calculating the heat load is fairly straight forward with the information on the outfitting screen. What we don't know is the heat capacity of the ships, and the formula that determines the cooling rate. That's what I intend to figure out.
 

goemon

goemon
Frenotx said:
All the powerplant seems to do is this: for every MW utilized by modules, heat is generated by the powerplant at the rate of [heat efficiency stat] * [MW usage].
Click to expand...

but a class 3A powerplant with modules utilizing MW leads to less heat than a 4A powerplant with the same modules utilizing MW... this is what i can't get my head around :)
 

domaq

domaq
goemon said:
but a class 3A powerplant with modules utilizing MW leads to less heat than a 4A powerplant with the same modules utilizing MW... this is what i can't get my head around :)
Click to expand...
We know that thrusters and FSD create heat at a set rate independent of the PP heat generation. We also know that thrusters and FSD depend greatly on the actual mass of the ship. What if the difference in heat you're talking about is not from the PP directly, but from the reduction in mass from a 4A to 3A PP? Maybe less heat is created from the FSD and thrusters when they move less mass? With all the extra information we have now via the Outfitting screen, can we see if mass changes the heat output of those two modules?
 

Robin of Spiritwood

Robin of Spiritwood
domaq said:
RECOMMENDATION: Fit Dirty-5 on all ships. Period. If heat is an issue, mod powerplant with low-power modification. Ideally, you could get a heat coefficient of .24 which will dramatically reduce your background silhouette and make scooping easier.
Click to expand...

Greetings Cmdr,
I took the advice about Low Emissions Power Plants on my Cobra III, headed over to Hera Tani, and got a Grade one with some iron. Cheapest mod ever.
Got a coefficient of 0.3, a huge improvement.
Got a gain on the Power capacity from 15.6 to 15.82 ( not huge, but well appreciated)
Minor increase in mass was the only drawback.

It took about 20 rolls to get this combination, and the results are really pleasant. Wish I could rep the post a second time.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom