2.2's Instant Ship and Module Transport - Yay or Nay?

[Paineframe]

Aside from the game balance issues it introduces, it's a slippery slope.

Throughout the DDF and even up until now, we've had FD resolutely sticking to their guns on what ED was supposed to be - backed by DBOBE and Sandro in statements/videos etc waxing lyrical about the supposed tennets of the universe ED was set in and why some things couldn't exist.

You can go back and read the DDF archive post where Sandro and others flat out state that they wanted people to identify with their ships, and didn't envisage players owning many ships, they should be expensive, and difficult to obtain to build a sense of ownership - hence, transfer wasn't needed, hell even multiple ship ownership was dismissed for the longest time.

But in a single gamescom video - *poof* all that has gone - Sandro now wants people to own lots of ships and move them around the galaxy instantly. It's the U-turn I find most disaapointing. What's next, AI? And there's not supposed to be artificial gravity in ED - but if it's open season on design decisions - why not just have it?

If they can U-Turn on ship teleporting which has been so staunchly dismissed until now, where's our market data for stations other than the one we're at? I can teleport a ship across the galaxy, I can communicate with others over infinite distances, but I can't see what price commodities are at in different stations? Not even in the same system?

It would seem to me that if they implement insta-transfer as described, they can't hide behind any plausible "because that's how it is in the universe" decision any more, as they've just contradicted their own design for "gameplay reasons".

imho, being able to see market data from other stations before you set out would add more gamplay than insta-ship warp. But at least now all you need is an AspX, and then only summon your Condie/Cutter when you find something worth buying

They U-turned on Engineers too, and the changes they've made there (making mats much easier to get in bulk, allowing players to burn rep to roll for special effects, and more) were very well-received. It's not necessarily a bad thing to turn your back on a design that proved to be unpopular or straight-up bad.

 

[Privata]

It's Frontier's game. Not your game. If they want to put this feature in because they feel it will make it more accessible and cut down on needless travel grind, that's *their* decision to make. I've already pointed out repeatedly that Sandro stated it has to be "stateless", which means timers are a no go, so it's a credit wall at best. You might not like it, but it's their vision.

These arguments might sound vaguely familiar, that'd be because they're usually used to chew out people who come to these forums with new ideas or different opinions. The irony of them being entirely valid now is not lost on me

True.
But this "feature'' conflicts with what was sold as the original vision. and not in a minor way like making the AI dumb , or changing the 100 crs to 1000... no , this messes with the full on proper realism.
There was a video when they said something like ''if it cant be done in universe , we wont do it''

I am not going to be an idiot and shout liars because its not a lie , its a change of plan. but in my opinion a missguided one.

If they end up using this system , I will shut up and just play the game or not play it depending on how hard it hurts the meta.

I could be wrong and magic was part of the immersion idea , I dont know... if I am wrong then so be it.

 

[Robert Maynard]

I've already pointed out repeatedly that Sandro stated it has to be "stateless", which means timers are a no go, so it's a credit wall at best. You might not like it, but it's their vision.

If transfer is to be stateless then Frontier could include a delay of sorts by the transfer itself changing from a "summon" to a "send", i.e. requiring the player to travel to the location of the ship then initiate transfer to a destination.

 

[VerticalBlank]

Back when I played X2, if you sent for one of your other ships, it came to you in real time. It seemed quite realistic, and because you knew that this was how it worked, you alowed for it.

David Braben has always been big on the scientific accuracy of the game and to me, this is one of it's strongest points. Instantaneous transfer of anything through space with total disregard for the laws of physics will go a long way towards breaking the believability of the game, and I have serious doubts as to whether Mr Braben supports this.

Waiting for your ship certainly didn't break the gameplay in X2, so why should it do so in ED?

Yes exactly. I don't understand why Sandro is insisting that the transfer has to be "stateless". Seems like a lazy cop-out.

 

[warbaby2]

It's Frontier's game. Not your game. If they want to put this feature in because they feel it will make it more accessible and cut down on needless travel grind, that's *their* decision to make. I've already pointed out repeatedly that Sandro stated it has to be "stateless", which means timers are a no go, so it's a credit wall at best. You might not like it, but it's their vision.

These arguments might sound vaguely familiar, that'd be because they're usually used to chew out people who come to these forums with new ideas or different opinions. The irony of them being entirely valid now is not lost on me

I would agree, if FD wasn't in the process of going back on their original design ideas they ironed out with the help of their early player base of supporters. Hate to tell you this, but citizism from that side is quite a bit different then the complains of people coming fresh into the game with no true knowledge of it...

 

[Privata]

Back when I played X2, if you sent for one of your other ships, it came to you in real time. It seemed quite realistic, and because you knew that this was how it worked, you alowed for it.

David Braben has always been big on the scientific accuracy of the game and to me, this is one of it's strongest points. Instantaneous transfer of anything through space with total disregard for the laws of physics will go a long way towards breaking the believability of the game, and I have serious doubts as to whether Mr Braben supports this.

Waiting for your ship certainly didn't break the gameplay in X2, so why should it do so in ED?

X2. the best of the X games.

It was all the small features that made X2 so great.
Sadly its AI was dumb and the universe static.

 

[ThatFuzzyTiger]

Well since that is the case then why not implement the insta jump to object in space,I end up spending a lot of time when iam exploring just because i have to fly 400kls to scan a system let alone trading with Stations which are placed 40k from the star, why don't have that since we want to save the people's time in this game?

Ask the devs, it's their crazy train, we're along for the ride. As I've said in earlier posts, Engineer threw any semblance of sanity right out of the window by decoupling effort from reward (because you're crafting casino tickets), this is just a step closer to going the whole pig, as opposed to just the bacon. If it were down to me I'd want a ground up rewrite of the BGS to support automated expansion into new galaxies, with a proper "real" economy where players had access to trade data (but at an escalating cost depending on how far out from their current position they wanted it), I'd scrap powerplay and replace it with something more organic based on Major and Minor factions as governed by the BGS, and I'd turn Engineers into a fixed outcome two step "Research and Development > Craft and reward" system.

None of that is going to happen, so I've got popcorn instead.

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If transfer is to be stateless then Frontier could include a delay of sorts by the transfer itself changing from a "summon" to a "send", i.e. requiring the player to travel to the location of the ship then initiate transfer to a destination.

There's an issue with that, I'll let you see if you can work out what it is. (Hint, it's technical).

I would agree, if FD wasn't in the process of going back on their original design ideas they ironed out with the help of their early player base of supporters. Hate to tell you this, but citizism from that side is quite a bit different then the complains of people coming fresh into the game with no true knowledge of it...

Yeah, because *clearly* people on this forum are the arbiters of what makes a good or bad suggestion or what constitutes good or bad criticism. As I've said elsewhere, the ED forums are some of the most hostile I've been on (they make Linux Dev forums look relatively wooly), you need to have an asbestos cover for the monitor at times around here.

 

[Privata]

If transfer is to be stateless then Frontier could include a delay of sorts by the transfer itself changing from a "summon" to a "send", i.e. requiring the player to travel to the location of the ship then initiate transfer to a destination.

Even if it was 30 seconds it would help.

Because it takes 10 seconds to call your ship to a planet , but instant to go from one end of the galaxy to another?

 

[Lobstris]

As a funny aside: Anyone noticed the change in tune when FD talks about ships? We went from "we don't want people to assemble fleets" and "it's all about one pilot and one ship" to "we want people to awn lots of ships"... that's what cash shop cosmetics can do to your game, I guess.

Yeah. I noticed that. Also, 'Solo' is a valid mode, as valid as 'Open' apparently, yet how much core gameplay has been added for solo? I'd hypothesise that most of the original backers with LTE (and therefore unlikely to spend too much more money, yet possibly having the most disposable income) are tucked away there. Whereas the PvP crowd (being glib) want shiny ships with go-faster spoilers to be seen by each other, and are more willing to part with cash for cosmetics.

That aside, and with complete hypocrisy, I will state the wireframe paintjobs will be mine. Oh yes!

 

[kukri]

So a thought about Ship transfer. How about it can be instantaneous but you can only get it to High Tech systems. Therefore you still have to figure out some logistics in order to get your ships in the right place, but cuts the long tedious transfer of ships with a small jump range?

 

[Metharius]

It's Frontier's game. Not your game. If they want to put this feature in because they feel it will make it more accessible and cut down on needless travel grind, that's *their* decision to make. I've already pointed out repeatedly that Sandro stated it has to be "stateless", which means timers are a no go, so it's a credit wall at best. You might not like it, but it's their vision.

how dense can someone be ?!
for crying out loud : what s the point in generating a 1:1 galaxy ?!

you juts bougth the wrong game, face it and don t ruin the game.
this game is all about travel and feel how vast the galaxy really is. (Because it s a SPACE SIM'.)
cut this down this and you cut down the main trait of the game.
because newtonian physic ? well kerbal space program do it too .
-space fight ? aren t you saying its grindy to farm the same high/haz res ?
-trade ? arent you saying is grindy to do the same route over and over again?
-powerplay ? its all about territory, but if you can telleport or bring any ship/asset verry quickly then whats the point ?

you can sell ship front distance ? (without the keys ?!) then i guess 2 month after release we will also be abble to buys from any station (the one with -20% [yesnod] and use ship transfert to bring it to us... hmm?! i dont have the alliance permit to go there? well i didn t go there so i don t need to anymore ! [big grin])

 

[Noogillim]

Begs another question

They can insta transport masses of ships everywhere - what is the point of trading anything other than Biological stuff

No need for CG's x system needs high tech doohickies to enable station to have something or other, bring mega tons now, nah can't be bothered no need!

Just insta deliver it!

As an idea it is totally pants! we may as well go play Candy Crush or Angry Birds.

 

[[VR] Marrs]

If transfer is to be stateless then Frontier could include a delay of sorts by the transfer itself changing from a "summon" to a "send", i.e. requiring the player to travel to the location of the ship then initiate transfer to a destination.

I've been saying this but it's getting lost in this monster of a thread. It needs to be shouted from the rooftops.

 

[ThatFuzzyTiger]

I've been saying this but it's getting lost in this monster of a thread. It needs to be shouted from the rooftops.

Again, there's a problem, though people haven't yet sussed out what that is. I'll not bother trying to explain it in the threadnaught, but if anyone wants to talk tech, PM me and I'll try and explain why "send" may not work out too well.

 

[Lobstris]

Those in 1. will wither away, their vision for ED dying of a 1000 little cuts - it won't be instant.
So sad.

To be fair, it's been dying a little bit every day since release (so at one cut a day, that's what? 614 cuts so far, so another 386 cuts to go, so the dream will die sometime in September next year. Will season 3 have started by then?) so we're developing coping mechanisms. Like griping on these forums.

 

[Joe Akeem]

One solution that would cater to both arcady and simulator player would be OPTIONS:

Transfer ship (Instant)
Transfer ship (Delayed)

Perhaps make the 'Delayed' option with a discount on transfer fee, and for the love of Thargoids make the delay realistic, not 5 minutes!

 

[faluc]

So much fuss about a simple quality of life thing.

There are much more immersion breaking stuff, like the clairvoyant NPCs materializing from nothing in my instance a few seconds after I had them crash into the other side of the star. And the endless stream of pirates lining up dutifully for their slaughter at resource sites.

Those who like more realism can set up a timer for themselves, and wait some minutes before pressing the instant transfer button. Problem solved.

 

[CMDR_COM_TRUISE]

Hey, I just though of a good semi-exploit with insta transfer.
So If I have an assymetric profit trade run, T9, 5 jumps either way, only really profitable in one direction.

I will be able to cut the 5 jumps down to 1 jump for the non profitable leg of the run in an Asp, then just call up my t9 and take the 5 jumps back, with the big payout cargo. Than call up my Asp again.

It's exactly this kind of snide meta gaming where it will see the most use.

man what a tedious way to play. If this turns out to be more profitable, and you aren't making use of methods like these, you are made to feel like a chump for flying one ship around, embittering the very act of piloting in this game and cheapening into absurdity.

 

[Flavourless]

Not time to read the thread.
Is it my understanding that modules can be transferred instantly from any station to another one? If so that is the most rubbish development in a long stream of rubbish ones
Hopefully I have just misunderstood.

Ship transfers should be in real time piloted by NPCs and with the risk of destruction during the journey.

 

[Bomba Luigi]

Those who like more realism can set up a timer for themselves, and wait some minutes before pressing the instant transfer button. Problem solved.

Thats why we should have a I win button for everything. Press it and get every ship, press and and win combat, press it and get billions. Makes life easier and everybody who doesn't like the Iwin button does not have to press it