2.2's Instant Ship and Module Transport - Yay or Nay?

[Metharius]

A completely trivial trip, which really only takes some time spent doing not much.

well just like going in supercruiser in a HUGE star system with thing at over 2000 LS
(you know, thoses system with stars orbiting stars who orbit stars)

so let me tp from any planet in the star system. i already been there/has already been discovered. why should i do the boring supercruise ?
the answer is the same as why you shouldn t add this instant or short delay transfer

 

[kofeyh]

That's "color sorting your socks" level strategy.
And it's not even removed, since you have to pay a price, which does require the same level of planning as a time delay does.

No it doesn't. Have a few bil in the bank? No problem you can move most anything a few thou light years no worry. No planning required. No effort. Zero impact and downtime. Just cough up the cash and away you go.

That completely, and I mean COMPLETELY zeros the notion of distance and time the developer has spent years reinforcing with different ship types. In fact you now only need a single long range ship, so engineers are pointless for anything other than ship distruction.

I can now fly a fast, long legged ship deep to wherever I need to go, then instantly teleport my pimped FDL, or shiny (and lethal) cutter in, and either blast everything I desire (then leave the same way, and teleport my expensive ship or ships back, again zero risk) or teleport my trade ship in, fill it with goodies and hi-wake out.

That's fantastic. It completely and I mean UTTERLY destroys all the effort put in to delineate ships on class and range. Just stuff credits into the screen and job done.

You'll excuse me if I find that level of casual just a little hysterically bad for a space sim. I'm all for simplicity. And instant teleport is pretty simple. It's also a mockery of the entire FSD concept. But hey, I have cash burning a hole in my pocket. Might as well spend it being lazy and just instant spawning whatever I want, wherever I want it.

If people think that's a great mechanic, with no downsides. You are bang on. Get used to everyone driving Asp and Anaconda everywhere. Because that's all you'll see. Most of the other ships will be fast travelled because there is NO RISK doing so. It's great.

Heck, I'll probably pimp and adder or hauler so I can out run most ships and jump like a maniac. Rebuy is peanuts so not even mad if I'm shot at. Open will be great because everyone will just teleport ships everywhere to avoid risk.

Just wait until storage is in place, and we can teleport laden cargo ships without even needing to drive them. Glorious.

I'm finding this way more amusing than I should.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

I think from watching the stream, they think it's a popular idea allowing instant role-switching that benefits the player. So I agree, I think it can be implemented, and I suspect, either before or after beta, some delay will be implemented, because the feedback on this is certainly more engaged that the Engineers. And that's on what, day two or three? They have to see that they can't implement teleportation of such massive assets in a game that has been systematically constructed to convey realism wherever possible. Regardless of the practical exploit and reductive elements this brings to fleets, ideologically, it's utterly against what Elite tries to convey.

I suspect it will be ignored because they don't listen only to forum threads. They also listen to what common folk say in their feedback. They also pay for this game.

But hey, you *might* convince FD about detailing that transfer gameplay. Just let's keep emotions and hyperbole out of it ok? There are good gameplay reasons which stack against instant transfer. Let's see how FD responds and how they will react to this feedback.

 

[Cmdr Cheese Wedge]

Billionaire gankers of the world rejoice for we have magical ring of teleportation! POOF!!!

Nope, If you want to gank at Jaques Station, expect delays. Because lets face it it's going to happen when this is implemented.
I'd actually prefer realtime delays thinking about it, I don't know how long it takes to reach Jaques, 8, 10 hours?
Then make it 8 to 10 hours, Plan ahead before transferring your fleet to a particular area especially one 20,000 LY's away.

I've said it before but magical pixie dust teleportation devalues the very nature of the vastness of space.

 

[Lobstris]

I'm actually ok with teleportation for multi-crew as long as you end up back where you were when you're done.

Yeah. That was my thinking - some kind of lobby system to meet up and decide ship to use. Teleport players to that ship, but save state of their current locations. At end of session, teleport players back to original locations. That still potentially allows transportation of material mission rewards, commodities an such like, unless the 'crew' just get a cash dividend, and only the pilot keeps the 'phat lewt'.

The striped feline one will now be along to tell us why I'm talking rubbish above, based on Frontier's architecture.

 

[Roybe]

No it doesn't. Have a few bil in the bank? No problem you can move most anything a few thou light years no worry. No planning required. No effort. Zero impact and downtime. Just cough up the cash and away you go.

That completely, and I mean COMPLETELY zeros the notion of distance and time the developer has spent years reinforcing with different ship types. In fact you now only need a single long range ship, so engineers are pointless for anything other than ship distruction.

I can now fly a fast, long legged ship deep to wherever I need to go, then instantly teleport my pimped FDL, or shiny (and lethal) cutter in, and either blast everything I desire (then leave the same way, and teleport my ship or ships back) or teleport my trade ship in, fill it with goodies and hi-wake out.

That's fantastic. It completely and I mean UTTERLY destroys all the effort put in to delineate ships on class and range. Just stuff credits into the screen and job done.

You'll excuse me if I find that level of casual just a little hysterically bad for a space sim. I'm all for simplicity. And instant teleport is pretty simple. It's also a mockery of the entire FSD concept. But hey, I have cash burning a hole in my pocket. Might as well spend it being lazy and just instant spawning whatever I want, wherever I want it.

If people think that's a great mechanic, with no downsides. You are bang on. Get used to everyone driving Asp and Anaconda everywhere. Because that's all you'll see. Most of the other ships will be fast travelled because there is NO RISK doing so. It's great.

I'm finding this way more amusing than I should.

At least I can get back in the game and fly something.

 

[Obsidian Ant]

You'll be informed when you try pirating in open and all you ever see is empty AspX/Anacondas zooming between stations.

You'll be informed when you see someone arrive in an Asp and depart in a Cutter, emptying that nice little trade commodity route you were looking forward to running 3 or 4 times between stations.

You'll be informed when the player you blew up in a Hauler outside a far away station with only sidewinders in the ship yard suddenly appears in a Vulture and kills you.

You'll be informed when you participate in Community Goals but can't keep up with these guys who seem to be getting runs in 2, 3 or 4 times faster than you doing the round trip in one ship.

You'll be informed when the usual high paying mission ports you like to fly from are nerfed because they've turned into cash farms with a higher rate of payout than ever anticipated.

You'll be informed when your favourite sectors become desolate as players react almost instantly to BGS PP changes by summoning their 2D FSD fighers to reclaim the sector.

etc.....

Even in Solo or Private Group, you will be informed.....

Just quoting this because a lot of people are missing these points.

Immersion / breaking immersion is only a small part of the issue (although it is certainly a valid concern). The more serious problem is that instant ship transfer has the potential to break the game, as pointed out above.

 

[Flimley]

Billionaire gankers of the world rejoice for we have magical ring of teleportation! POOF!!!

Nope, If you want to gank at Jaques Station, expect delays. Because lets face it it's going to happen when this is implemented.
I'd actually prefer realtime delays thinking about it, I don't know how long it takes to reach Jaques, 8, 10 hours?
Then make it 8 to 10 hours, Plan ahead before transferring your fleet to a particular area especially one 20,000 LY's away.

I've said it before but magical pixie dust teleportation devalues the very nature of the vastness of space.

.....it sure does !
Flimley

 

[Roybe]

Just quoting this because a lot of people are missing these points.

Immersion / breaking immersion is only a small part of the issue (although it is certainly a valid concern). The more serious problem is that instant ship transfer has the potential to break the game, as pointed out above.

Glad to see that FDev has finally given up on PVP pirating...and now pirating NPC's will be the only game left to play!

 

[CMDR Robyn Highart]

Timed or insta. Mr Samarco has completely misinterpreted the desire for this feature. I think it should serve as a rare relocation, not a trivial "Accio Conda!". Only way to prevent this from becoming a "move fleet through wormhole" button is to make it very expensive. That's the only way to prevent overuse and BGS exploitation.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Putting all for/against arguments aside, I just love how easily people predict how that stuff will be used, without even knowing costs or will be there limits (there might be, they didn't say no).

Keep cool people. Write directly to FD if you feel strong enough about it. Just don't make sky high predictions. It's tiresome and leads nowhere. I buy immersion arguments more than "it will be exploited and everyone will fly around in Anaconda".

 

[Boomer Kay]

Convenience vs. immersion again when it comes to multi-crew.

Think of it rather as gameplay value vs. Time simply spent being logged in and fiddling your thumbs.
If you don't play 24/7, there is a lot of time that can be used to explain why you don't have to watch a black screen for 8 hrs while your commander is taking a nap.

Does trivial ship movement add any gameplay value?
Does waiting add gameplay value?
A top valet parking service will deliver your car to the door while you pay the bill, before you leave the table. It will wait for you there "magically".
A crappy one will start looking for it while you stand there waiting.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Just quoting this because a lot of people are missing these points.

Immersion / breaking immersion is only a small part of the issue (although it is certainly a valid concern). The more serious problem is that instant ship transfer has the potential to break the game, as pointed out above.

Lots of hot air speculation and assumption. Thus worse than immersion argument.

 

[CMDR Robyn Highart]

Putting all for/against arguments aside, I just love how easily people predict how that stuff will be used, without even knowing costs or will be there limits (there might be, they didn't say no).

Keep cool people. Write directly to FD if you feel strong enough about it. Just don't make sky high predictions. It's tiresome and leads nowhere. I buy immersion arguments more than "it will be exploited and everyone will fly around in Anaconda".

You sound like those SW:Battlefront(ea) supporters, when gameplay details like lack of space combat came out.

 

[Obsidian Ant]

Putting all for/against arguments aside, I just love how easily people predict how that stuff will be used, without even knowing costs or will be there limits (there might be, they didn't say no).

Keep cool people. Write directly to FD if you feel strong enough about it. Just don't make sky high predictions. It's tiresome and leads nowhere. I buy immersion arguments more than "it will be exploited and everyone will fly around in Anaconda".

Agreed, but I'd rather Frontier hear people's thoughts on this now rather than once it hits the live servers. It would be nice to avoid a repeat of the re-balancing issues that happened with The Engineers (and that could certainly have been avoided, if prior to release, we had a discussion like this one, along with Frontier's participation in the discussion).

 

[Kled7]

Sorry, TLDR but just nope anyway.

Here are just two things that instant ship transportation make completely pointless:

- Shipyards and Outfitting: we no longer need any shipyards or outfitting except the good ones. Location is no longer a factor. Any shipyard that doesn't stock everything or offer a discount is now completely irrelevant.
- FSD jump range: in fact just scrap FSDs altogether on any ship apart from the entry level Hauler, the Asp, DBX, and Anaconda. No one needs to ever travel anywhere in any other ship except these.

It's dumb, it'll always be dumb, and there's no justification for it other than dumbing down the game.

this is an argument against ship transfer in general. If things took any length of time i would just need to log out for the night and the next day i have my ship.

I agree its silly, and doesn't seem to fit with the theme of the game.

 

[MickyG1982]

I don't mind instant transfer of ships to big stations. It kind've works if you think about it.

Sell your ship at location X and it's bought at location Y. But, they are two different ships so, the engineers mods should NOT transfer with them. These should go into storage and transfer in a comparable time scale depending on how far away you are from the original station. (Remember that we as humans need to stop for around 8 hours per day, an npc would not so this time would be much reduced from how long it would take us).

This would provide a decent compromise and a none immersion breaking way to provide insta-transfer of your ship and modules.

 

[Boomer Kay]

Glad to see that FDev has finally given up on PVP pirating...and now pirating NPC's will be the only game left to play!

When exactly would you want to pirate me? When I'm moving my ship with an empty cargo hold for max jump range between two routes? That will be removed.
Or when I'm actually trading, which still requires flying that ship with cargo between two stations?

 

[kofeyh]

Billionaire gankers of the world rejoice for we have magical ring of teleportation! POOF!!!

Nope, If you want to gank at Jaques Station, expect delays. Because lets face it it's going to happen when this is implemented.
I'd actually prefer realtime delays thinking about it, I don't know how long it takes to reach Jaques, 8, 10 hours?
Then make it 8 to 10 hours, Plan ahead before transferring your fleet to a particular area especially one 20,000 LY's away.

I've said it before but magical pixie dust teleportation devalues the very nature of the vastness of space.

No delay. Only need cash. That's it. Range is dependant on bank balance. This is what the live stream shows. 600k to move beluga 350ly or something. That is peanuts. Utterly trivial amounts being talked about here.

I can instant spawn anything and everything I want at Sothis or CEOs all day long. Anyone who is a multi billionaire will have a great time. This means a trader can teleport a ship into a nice and dangerous anarchy system, load up on goodies and then high-wake out, next to the station straight into high-sec space.

Teleport fast mover in, swap ships, hop back, repeat. This is potentially faster than flying trade ship back and removes all risk when flying transport ship through anarchy supercruise.

If there was a delay, even a short one, it would temper use based on more genuine need and the flexibility to shift ships to where they are needed. At present? Instant teleport of anything anywhere around the bubble.

And I am sure there are a ton of ways instant travel can be abused I can't even think of yet.

Hell, there are likely commanders who can actually afford to teleport ships to Jaques. Or more importantly, back. lol. Hilarious.

Yes, we can instant teleport from outlying regions to starter system by suicide. They fact this isn't done constantly by all is that that had a cost, namely ship distruction, and loss of data. It's the combination of the two that makes it less of a defacto travel option.

Don't get me wrong. This is great. It's hilariously breaking the rules Sandro and Co have spent a couple years obsessing over, and I do hope during beta they work out that this will probably be used a TON more than they expect.

But I would rather they sort this out now, because by beta, major changes to major mechanics are usually off the table. Once a function is in place, that's it. Might be finessed or whatever, but not just ripped out and redone.

 

[jasonbarron]

Putting all for/against arguments aside, I just love how easily people predict how that stuff will be used, without even knowing costs or will be there limits (there might be, they didn't say no).

Keep cool people. Write directly to FD if you feel strong enough about it. Just don't make sky high predictions. It's tiresome and leads nowhere. I buy immersion arguments more than "it will be exploited and everyone will fly around in Anaconda".

How on earth can you not think that's what's going to happen?