2.2's Instant Ship and Module Transport - Yay or Nay?

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Agreed, but I'd rather Frontier think about this now rather than once it hits the live servers. It would be nice to avoid a repeat of the re-balancing issues that happened with The Engineers.

Difference is majority of issues you quoted is issue with ship transfer in general, isn't it? So it is feature a lot of people really, really want.

So far reading this thread I am very for limits (if that's possible in code), time (would be cool but I feel just to make people wait won't solve anything, limits matter more), and against not having feature at all. But let's keep suggestions posted in fashioned format. I will bow out of this, because I have tendency to just to stir up things

 

[Lobstris]

Lots of hot air speculation and assumption. Thus worse than immersion argument.

Could you explain how you reached that conclusion please? As you have just said "I just love how easily people predict how that stuff will be used, without even knowing costs or will be there limits", and yet you've drawn a firm conclusion "Thus worse than immersion argument". Just curious as to why you feel your speculation somehow more valid, when you are also working from a position of ignorance? Surely we must 'keep calm' and wait for true facts?

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

How on earth can you not think that's what's going to happen?

Because I am sceptic and question things and don't jump to conclusions before beta arrives?

I know, shocking

 

[CMDR Robyn Highart]

Brabenplis :'( hear us!

 

[Roybe]

Let me put this a little more simply, I can spend my hour and a half a night slogging through empty space, moving ships to be ready to play my next night (if my goal doesn't change), or play any other of the 200+ games in my game list and make a serious change to my standing in any single one of those....and actually have fun doing whatever activity any of those other games might offer.

Sometimes I don't mind...most of the time, I do...and play another game.

What is funny? I see a lot of my old crew from E: D playing other games while in Discord...

It appears that this loss of players is causing the devs some consternation...and removing some of the time required might bring some folks back to the game...it might not.

One other thing, this is not 'dumbing down' the game...it is just making the game more accessible for those that do not have the 'hardcore' time necessary to be bothered to 'play'.

 

[Cageman]

I cannot fathom why this wasn't the main option they went with. Two reasons: 1. They honestly believe that the players want a cheap experience and prefer instant gratification. 2. They can't be bothered to write down a few more pages of code.

I agree... and, in the way it was "revealed".... Braben talking so much about realism in the game and then this bomb dropped. Not sure what to think. I mean... the main part of the game is to travel. And it is one of the few things that actually takes time in the game.

But... water under the bridge about my frustration about that.... If Frontier will add options to Instant when transfering a ship, I might go ahead and continue to support the game with my 4 accounts I have (they are all Horizons). But, depending on what they choose to do with this feature, I might not continue my support.

I am asking for alternatives with shiptransfer, Instant being the most costly, Realtime being the less costly. If that gets into the game, I am game, because it will allow me to play the game the way I want; with realism in mind.

 

[Obsidian Ant]

Difference is majority of issues you quoted is issue with ship transfer in general, isn't it? So it is feature a lot of people really, really want.

So far reading this thread I am very for limits (if that's possible in code), time (would be cool but I feel just to make people wait won't solve anything, limits matter more), and against not having feature at all. But let's keep suggestions posted in fashioned format. I will bow out of this, because I have tendency to just to stir up things

It's not an issue with timed transfer, because in that case people will seriously considering flying the ship manually. But in either event you are quite right, it doesn't have to be timed, any type of limit would probably be a good idea. Something that makes people consider; "Should I use the transfer option, or do this manually?"

Ship transfer by the way - is also a feature I have wanted for a very long time. I just hope it is done correctly.

 

[Boomer Kay]

Could you explain how you reached that conclusion please? As you have just said "I just love how easily people predict how that stuff will be used, without even knowing costs or will be there limits", and yet you've drawn a firm conclusion "Thus worse than immersion argument". Just curious as to why you feel your speculation somehow more valid, when you are also working from a position of ignorance? Surely we must 'keep calm' and wait for true facts?

Because instant transfer does nothing that can not be done at the moment by playing half an hour longer and moving your ship somewhere else.
350 ly? That's a trivial 30 jumps in a FAS. Have done that trip more than once.

 

[jasonbarron]

Because I am sceptic and question things and don't jump to conclusions before beta arrives?

I know, shocking

I guess that makes me a cynic, then

 

[Lobstris]

When exactly would you want to pirate me? When I'm moving my ship with an empty cargo hold for max jump range between two routes? That will be removed.
Or when I'm actually trading, which still requires flying that ship with cargo between two stations?

Previously there would possibly be 'two bites of the cherry' - pirate you for cargo A to B, and B to A. Under new system - possibly less chance for that to happen - only full B to A.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

It's not an issue with timed transfer, because in that case people will seriously considering flying the ship manually. But in either event you are quite right, it doesn't have to be timed, any type of limit would probably be a good idea. Something that makes people consider; "Should I use the transfer option, or do this manually?"

I personally don't care about time that much. Lot of people point correctly that there's casual players who want this to be instant. *However* - and this is important - reachability matters - can ship you try to move actually be moved on destination. I can agree on that and I hope that's something FD could consider (and frankly as they want mostly to move ships around in bubble I don't think they would mind either).

 

[MyHammer]

Agreed, but I'd rather Frontier think about this now rather than once it hits the live servers. It would be nice to avoid a repeat of the re-balancing issues that happened with The Engineers.

Someone suggested earlier to collect all the arguments against insta travel on one place. This thread has gone wild long ago. We should really show FD that this is something which they cant just ignore.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

I guess that makes me a cynic, then

Just having passionate, different opinion. I know you are kinda want to prevent something to happen, to warn FD that they are making mistake. I am just saying that's doable in less 'hyped' way.

 

[OriginalBadBoy]

Because instant transfer does nothing that can not be done at the moment by playing half an hour longer and moving your ship somewhere else.
350 ly? That's a trivial 30 jumps in a FAS. Have done that trip more than once.

Hold on ... But its not 350 LY if you have to go there and back, if you had a ship on one side of the bubble and wanted to get it to the other thats more like an hour at least.

Don't forget some people don't get much play time, if you can play at 15 hours stints then fine 30 mins isnt going to matter. But if you only have an hour to play then 30 mins eats a lot into that time.

 

[VerticalBlank]

Just quoting this because a lot of people are missing these points.

Immersion / breaking immersion is only a small part of the issue (although it is certainly a valid concern). The more serious problem is that instant ship transfer has the potential to break the game, as pointed out above.

Oh thank the stars. Obsidian Ant, I am really glad and relieved that you get how game-breaking this would be and have added your voice.

 

[Boomer Kay]

Previously there would possibly be 'two bites of the cherry' - pirate you for cargo A to B, and B to A. Under new system - possibly less chance for that to happen - only full B to A.

Same chance, if the return trip has no profitable goods?
You still have to fly it! You can I order your ship to where you are, which would have been an empty return trip before anyway?
What exactly do you pirate on empty return trips?
And why would someone pay for the transfer and fly another empty ship that he then has to call to the other station and... pay again.
That sounds as profitable as a Porsche taxi.

 

[Sans Daring]

Putting all for/against arguments aside, I just love how easily people predict how that stuff will be used, without even knowing costs or will be there limits (there might be, they didn't say no).

They did in the stream give the impression that the ideology of insta-port was part of what they were offering. Swap roles in an instant. They appear to think we want a situation where we can pull in whatever craft we want at any time.

"We want players to own different ships, we want players to specialise those ships to do different things, but the galaxy is so large we needed a way to get the ships to you... basically we needed a way to get the ships in your pocket so wherever you are, whatever you are doing, you've always got the right ship for the job..."
(day 4 part 2 around 34 minute mark)

Keep cool people. Write directly to FD if you feel strong enough about it. Just don't make sky high predictions. It's tiresome and leads nowhere. I buy immersion arguments more than "it will be exploited and everyone will fly around in Anaconda".

I think it's important they see the reaction now. So if this isn't something interesting to people, or they feel they've made their point, there's no suggestion you have to follow the thread. I think a big thread, and a big debate will offer FDev some of the arguments against the ideology they are proposing, which essentially is a simplification in the immersion mechanics to help operate a growing Elite universe. Problem is, it's a game-destructive method to address that issue.

 

[MadDogMurdock]

this is an argument against ship transfer in general. If things took any length of time i would just need to log out for the night and the next day i have my ship.

I agree its silly, and doesn't seem to fit with the theme of the game.

No, I'm ok with ship transportation with a delay.

Ordering your ship for your next play session is planning ahead, which is fine.
I recognize that many players don't enjoy lots of consecutive jumps in short range ships even though space being big is intrinsic to the game. I just think that those same players should accept some form of delay to account for the fact that they were just unwilling to participate in what is actually core gameplay - travelling.

So, for me it should be something like:
Yes, you can use your 60ly Anaconda to get to that combat CG on the other side of the bubble as quickly as possible.
Yes, you can summon your 7ly FDL to this station.
No, you can't use it now, you weren't prepared to bring it here yourself, you have to wait.
Use your Anaconda until it arrives.

IMO, a small delay is pointless. It should be significant.

If I was truly evil, I would make Ship Delivery a mission type and you'd have to wait for a real player to actually take on that mission and deliver your ship for you. Of course, they could steal it and never deliver it, or they could die and lose your ship, but hey that's the price of laziness

 

[ThatFuzzyTiger]

Agreed, but I'd rather Frontier hear people's thoughts on this now rather than once it hits the live servers. It would be nice to avoid a repeat of the re-balancing issues that happened with The Engineers (and that could certainly have been avoided, if prior to release, we had a discussion like this one, along with Frontier's participation in the discussion).

Are you really honestly suggesting the Engineers are even approaching an acceptable state as they are?

Wat.

 

[Lobstris]

Because instant transfer does nothing that can not be done at the moment by playing half an hour longer and moving your ship somewhere else.
350 ly? That's a trivial 30 jumps in a FAS. Have done that trip more than once.

If it's 'trivial', you won't mind it remaining in the game then - sorted! And the possibility of transfer over far larger distances? Jaques for instance?

Anyway, I was merely pointing out that someone was warning us not to draw conclusions before facts, then drawing conclusions themselves. But if it's got to the point when petty points scoring seems like a good idea, I should leave. Again this accomplishes little - you believe there will be no implications, and I hope you're right, but fear you're wrong - see Slopey's previous post. G'nite!