A Fer-de-Lance takes on the WORLD! (Virtual Reality PvP)

[Cosmos]

But you use all gimballed weapons... where is the fun in that? It takes no more skill than shooting someone with missiles.

Seems like the things you hate about PvP are the things that counter your build choices.

I've never quite understood the snobbery over gimbals.. If its in the game perfectly legit to use it (there is a counter to it as well) . If anything missiles are likely the least skill weapon to use - I long didn't use them because I thought they were low skill, but changed my mind when I put thermal cascade on them [haha]

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Using fixed multi's sacrifices maneuverability, a wider firing arc, AND a faster firing rate. I don't see the benefit in loosing those traits. The FUN comes from a flight model that is second to none.



The thing is, gimballed weapons have been sufficiently countered in various ways for years. Countering incoming missiles however, is not nearly as simple for a stealth ship. For example, as the game stands, SIX POINT DEFENSE on my FDL struggle to provide any form of missile defense. (This the embodyment of broken)

Furthermore, there's no reason why the effect of emmissive rounds should be essentially infinite. This is especially true when thruster sniping missiles are so easily added to the mix. I think a good balancing factor would be to base the module damage missiles inflict on how much overall hull damage they do.

Flying silent has always been the most challenging and risky way to fly.

Those who need a crutch use shields.



Actually, unlike so many others, I refuse to accept victory BECAUSE of a certain module. My victories in combat have always been gained by my ability to outfly my opponent(s).

lol.. Seems like you're salty there is a counter to your silent running build.. And its far from being the most challenging way to fly. You effectively want to be untargetable. As for immisive people need to keep hitting you for the effect to go on.

 

[Kicks]

Great video.

Track IR (or rather in my case, wireless EDTracker) is a fantastic game-changer.

I'll be posting my review of the latter in the next few days.

 

[Snuffle]

That was a fun fight z4! Thank you for no heat disease build and it was a super fun fur ball. Just barely got out at the end there, after you died I got out in 90% hull 50% Powerplant. It was a fun two hours of engagements that night and I got myself two kills, so overall a great evening.

 

[_Fissure]

All alone in my Fer-de-Lance, I was looking for a fight at the Arque Community Goal. I never expected that night to turn into something like this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82lCPXm5suU

z4, I was in two of the big group fights you were involved in yesterday. It was a hell of a lot of fun. Thanks for the great fights and awesome video o7

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Actually z4, I'm curious about what Glutny asked as well. In one of the fights I was involved in i was hitting you with 2x scramble pulse. I'm curious to know what kind of malfunctions they caused/how often they caused malfunctions. My tests with friends produced inconsistent results.

 

[Ziljan]

But you use all gimballed weapons... where is the fun in that? It takes no more skill than shooting someone with missiles.

Seems like the things you hate about PvP are the things that counter your build choices.

I would argue that missiles require a little more attention to subtargeting in the heat of combat, to guessing future ship orientation and avoiding Point Defenses. Going with all gimbals is much simpler and probably higher over all DPS. So many ways to avoid missile damage, you are effectively gimping yourself in most cases. And you can't even lock onto to a ship that running stealth until their heat sig is high enough, and that takes time to get a lock, then subtarget, then reaquire a lock, then line up the shot and then to make sure it actually lands on the side you want and does actual module damage, not bouncing harmlessly off the hull.

Also, (here's a tip) hitting thrusters is nearly impossible as long as they're facing you.

 

[CMDR SilverStar_]

Wow, that was insane XD +rep

 

[z4.MAFIA]

Epic, fight to last breath,enjoyed every second,thank you.Intresting for Z-Mafia,retreat is never an option for him,fight to death.

Wow, that was insane XD +rep

I'm glad you guys enjoyed the video!

I would argue that missiles require a little more attention to subtargeting in the heat of combat, to guessing future ship orientation and avoiding Point Defenses. Going with all gimbals is much simpler and probably higher over all DPS. So many ways to avoid missile damage, you are effectively gimping yourself in most cases. And you can't even lock onto to a ship that running stealth until their heat sig is high enough, and that takes time to get a lock, then subtarget, then reaquire a lock, then line up the shot and then to make sure it actually lands on the side you want and does actual module damage, not bouncing harmlessly off the hull.

Also, (here's a tip) hitting thrusters is nearly impossible as long as they're facing you.

This would be a nice balance if only it were true... based on field tests I've done, the splash damage from missiles is so great, it makes no difference where they hit my FDL. Thrusters become useless in a very short amount of time.

Since 2.1 dropped, torpedoes have since been balanced. They are not as devastating against shields as they once were. I propose that the same thing happens with missiles. There is already emissive rounds which serve as a great enough counter...

z4, I was in two of the big group fights you were involved in yesterday. It was a hell of a lot of fun. Thanks for the great fights and awesome video o7

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Actually z4, I'm curious about what Glutny asked as well. In one of the fights I was involved in i was hitting you with 2x scramble pulse. I'm curious to know what kind of malfunctions they caused/how often they caused malfunctions. My tests with friends produced inconsistent results.

Those fights yesterday were INSANE! I can't remember the last time I've had so much fun. PvP is back!

As far as your 2x scramble pulse, I was certainly experiencing malfunctions yesterday, but because I was taking fire from multiple CMDRs in every direction, it's really hard to tell who was the cause of what malfunction. Lol...

That was a fun fight z4! Thank you for no heat disease build and it was a super fun fur ball. Just barely got out at the end there, after you died I got out in 90% hull 50% Powerplant. It was a fun two hours of engagements that night and I got myself two kills, so overall a great evening.

It was a blast for sure! And you're welcome. No one likes the heat disease sapping all the fun out of PvP.

Great video.

Track IR (or rather in my case, wireless EDTracker) is a fantastic game-changer.

I'll be posting my review of the latter in the next few days.

Anything that gives you the capability to look around your cockpit adds so much to the experience. The fact that with VR, you feel present inside your spaceship, takes the game to whole other level though. I highly recommend getting into VR. It's absolutely worth every single penny.

I've never quite understood the snobbery over gimbals.. If its in the game perfectly legit to use it (there is a counter to it as well) . If anything missiles are likely the least skill weapon to use - I long didn't use them because I thought they were low skill, but changed my mind when I put thermal cascade on them [haha]

It's great to see some agreement on missiles being the only true zero skill weapon.

lol.. Seems like you're salty there is a counter to your silent running build.. And its far from being the most challenging way to fly. You effectively want to be untargetable. As for immisive people need to keep hitting you for the effect to go on.

TIL shields are a crutch and if you counter Z4's build he gets mad. The amount of knowledge on this board is insane!

I don't mind there being a counter. There needs to be a counter to everything. As it stands though, the counters to a silent build are too much. All it takes is one hit from an emissive round and the effect lasts long enough for more hits to follow.

This leads to an infinite effect of completely eliminating the usefulness of silent running. Why not leave it at that? There's no reason for there to be missiles that do massive module damage on top of that. It only makes sense for FDev to scale the module damage based on overall hull damage done.

Shield users have been tailored to by FDev by not only giving them a couple balance passes on heat damage but also a balance pass on torpedoes. As a stealth user, why is it so unreasonable to ask that a balance pass be done on missiles?

 

[missmartian]

Absolutely adore your videos. If you ever wander in Imperial space and are not busy I'd love to get some tips.

 

[Devari]

I think that thruster sniping missiles or anything that stacks massive heat damage takes all the fun out of PvP, so I've decided to run all Incendiary.

Excellent work CMDR! It makes me happy to see that Incendiary multicannons can be viable in PVP, especially after the thermal load and ROF nerfs, because I use Incendiaries on almost all my ships as a PVE build. Eventually when FD finally does a proper nerf to thermal shock/heat all of the "PVP heat builds" will become sub-par and all of the incendiary builds will be the new "kings" of PVP. Then I might actually stick around to fight when a CMDR interdicts me rather than assuming that he's running an OP heat build that will cook my modules.

But you use all gimballed weapons... where is the fun in that? It takes no more skill than shooting someone with missiles.

As someone who uses gimballed weapons for all of my multicannons and turrets for my beams I can tell you that gimballed/turreted weapons are definitely not "easy" to use due to the chaff-spamming that both players and NPCs do regularly. In fact if anything gimballed weapons probably put you at an overall disadvantage against most players and high-level NPCs as they can shut them down entirely simply by spamming chaff (if you have two chaff modules you can use it almost continually). Unless you know how/when to unselect your target and have some skill using them as rudimentary "fixed" forward-fire weapons (which is not particdularly easy to do when you can't target the enemy and need to fight entirely visually) you will be easily shut down with a gimballed build.

 

[z4.MAFIA]

Absolutely adore your videos. If you ever wander in Imperial space and are not busy I'd love to get some tips.

As always, thanks for watching missmartian. I'd be happy to give you some tips anytime. Just holler!

Excellent work CMDR! It makes me happy to see that Incendiary multicannons can be viable in PVP, especially after the thermal load and ROF nerfs, because I use Incendiaries on almost all my ships as a PVE build. Eventually when FD finally does a proper nerf to thermal shock/heat all of the "PVP heat builds" will become sub-par and all of the incendiary builds will be the new "kings" of PVP. Then I might actually stick around to fight when a CMDR interdicts me rather than assuming that he's running an OP heat build that will cook my modules.

I wasn't sure how well a pure Incendiary multicannon build was going to fair. Based on this video though, which was my first proper field test, I'm very satisfied.

 

[Devari]

I wasn't sure how well a pure Incendiary multicannon build was going to fair. Based on this video though, which was my first proper field test, I'm very satisfied.

How do you keep your ship cool enough to run all of those incendiaries while also running silent? You must have been running a clean drive tune I assume plus probably a high-grade low emissions power plant mod? On my Python I run a mix of 2xIncendiary and 1xCorrosive and even from that the heat buildup is considerable so the thermal load from your FDL Incendiaries must be quite punishing. I noticed you had a full heat sink loadout but wasn't sure if you were using those simply to counter incoming heat weapons or if they were necessary even to maintain your regular silent running stealth mode.

 

[Princess Nia]

How do you keep your ship cool enough to run all of those incendiaries while also running silent? You must have been running a clean drive tune I assume plus probably a high-grade low emissions power plant mod? On my Python I run a mix of 2xIncendiary and 1xCorrosive and even from that the heat buildup is considerable so the thermal load from your FDL Incendiaries must be quite punishing. I noticed you had a full heat sink loadout but wasn't sure if you were using those simply to counter incoming heat weapons or if they were necessary even to maintain your regular silent running stealth mode.

low emissions PP, clean drives, and efficient weapons would be my guess

 

[Kestril]

I don't mind there being a counter. There needs to be a counter to everything. As it stands though, the counters to a silent build are too much. All it takes is one hit from an emissive round and the effect lasts long enough for more hits to follow.

This leads to an infinite effect of completely eliminating the usefulness of silent running. Why not leave it at that? There's no reason for there to be missiles that do massive module damage on top of that. It only makes sense for FDev to scale the module damage based on overall hull damage done.

Missiles are on an equal-footing with silent running, if not at a little disadvantage. Missiles aren't so much anti-silent-running as they are anti-hull tank.

Flying well in SR, missiles can't gain lock and if you are hot enough to where they do, launch a heatsink and the missile will follow that instead of your ship. As a last-ditch effort, you can manually target the missile and shoot it down.

I agree that it is punishing when hit by a missile. But it's meant to be, as there are many counters to missiles in the game with modules(ECM), utility mounts(HS, Point Defense),weapons(Frag cannons) and builds(silent running, shields).

So yeah, with all the counters to missiles, they do need to have an impact when they actually hit.

Anyways, excellent flying commander! I really enjoyed the video!

 

[bladebss]

Props for not useing heat. And for the hard core flying skilz! So good to see a cmdr with some class

 

[GluttonyFang]

And to be honest, heat-meta is fair play against a silent running ship, heat is their biggest weakness so it only make sense that it's a counter to that.

Heat meta is unfair (due to the only counter is to stack more heat) against anything, silent running is defeated by emissive munition, there's no need to beat it down even further with OP heat.

 

[_Fissure]

I'm glad you guys enjoyed the video!

This would be a nice balance if only it were true... based on field tests I've done, the splash damage from missiles is so great, it makes no difference where they hit my FDL. Thrusters become useless in a very short amount of time.

Since 2.1 dropped, torpedoes have since been balanced. They are not as devastating against shields as they once were. I propose that the same thing happens with missiles. There is already emissive rounds which serve as a great enough counter...

Those fights yesterday were INSANE! I can't remember the last time I've had so much fun. PvP is back!

As far as your 2x scramble pulse, I was certainly experiencing malfunctions yesterday, but because I was taking fire from multiple CMDRs in every direction, it's really hard to tell who was the cause of what malfunction. Lol...

It's great to see some agreement on missiles being the only true zero skill weapon
I don't mind there being a counter. There needs to be a counter to everything. As it stands though, the counters to a silent build are too much. All it takes is one hit from an emissive round and the effect lasts long enough for more hits to follow.

This leads to an infinite effect of completely eliminating the usefulness of silent running. Why not leave it at that? There's no reason for there to be missiles that do massive module damage on top of that. It only makes sense for FDev to scale the module damage based on overall hull damage done.

Shield users have been tailored to by FDev by not only giving them a couple balance passes on heat damage but also a balance pass on torpedoes. As a stealth user, why is it so unreasonable to ask that a balance pass be done on missiles?

Agreed. Those fights were an absolute riot. 12-14 CMDRs duking it out in one huge, scrappy hair ball. I loved every second of it! The best PvP I've had in a long time.


Two additional questions for you Z4:

1) What are your tips, if any, for running a SR build post 2.1? Pre-2.1 I absolutely loved running a Silent FAS; ran it with 3x Imperial Hammers and a Large Frag on top. However, the changes to heat, heat sinks, and missiles post 2.1 killed the build. I adjusted the weapons load out to account for the new heat mechanics, but I found myself running into two issues: no where near enough heat sinks, and missiles absolutely obliterating my ship and its' modules. Nothing I tried seemed to mitigate these issues. I've thought about buying a second FDL to run as a silent multi-cannon build, but my experiences with the FAS post 2.1 make me hesitant.

2) What do you use to record when you play? I've never recorded game play footage before, but yesterday's awesome engagements got me thinking that I should start.

 

[Princess Nia]

Props for not useing heat. And for the hard core flying skilz! So good to see a cmdr with some class

thanks! (i was there too)

 

[Cosmos]

I don't mind there being a counter. There needs to be a counter to everything. As it stands though, the counters to a silent build are too much. All it takes is one hit from an emissive round and the effect lasts long enough for more hits to follow.

This leads to an infinite effect of completely eliminating the usefulness of silent running. Why not leave it at that? There's no reason for there to be missiles that do massive module damage on top of that. It only makes sense for FDev to scale the module damage based on overall hull damage done.

On the whole I think silent running needs a bit more love from the devs, it should be a much more skillful and finely tuned affair that it has been. Yet you seem to be suggesting you are doing something amazing, when in effect, its little different to the heat meta builds people are using.

I don't see how you can complain about heat when you are using endless heatsinks, with a low thermal emission build.. I can see why you like your silent build, it does look fun ( I did similar things back in Alpha and was almost untouchable at times) because for most people you attack they won't stand a chance but its like pot calling the kettle black when you start to complain about something equally ridiculous. If one doesn't mean skill then neither does the other.

Fraid to say this to you but if you want a fair fight with folks then get into an unmodded sidewinder and fight them 1v1. Till then, lets not start being judgemental about various builds.. I agree the game has gone in a more rock paper scissors situ rather than one where we fight based upon ability but if you are gonna use that silent cancer build, I don't see how you can complain when others use an equally cancerous heat build.

I look forward to seeing you on the battlefield.. Been a bit busy of late but we'll meet in time, should make for some interesting fights..

That said, this is what a counter to your build does (a saying along the lines of wiping the floor with you comes to mind) lmao :


[video=youtube_share;pTAp3sPxUv4]https://youtu.be/pTAp3sPxUv4[/video]

And oh.. there you are [haha]

 

[GluttonyFang]

On the whole I think silent running needs a bit more love from the devs, it should be a much more skillful and finely tuned affair that it has been. Yet you seem to be suggesting you are doing something amazing, when in effect, its little different to the heat meta builds people are using.

I don't see how you can complain about heat when you are using endless heatsinks, with a low thermal emission build.. I can see why you like your silent build, it does look fun ( I did similar things back in Alpha and was almost untouchable at times) because for most people you attack they won't stand a chance but its like pot calling the kettle black when you start to complain about something equally ridiculous. If one doesn't mean skill then neither does the other.

Fraid to say this to you but if you want a fair fight with folks then get into an unmodded sidewinder and fight them 1v1. Till then, lets not start being judgemental about various builds.. I agree the game has gone in a more rock paper scissors situ rather than one where we fight based upon ability but if you are gonna use that silent cancer build, I don't see how you can complain when others use an equally cancerous heat build.

I look forward to seeing you on the battlefield.. Been a bit busy of late but we'll meet in time, should make for some interesting fights..

That said, this is what a counter to your build does (a saying along the lines of wiping the floor with you comes to mind) lmao :


https://youtu.be/pTAp3sPxUv4

And oh.. there you are [haha]

Ah it confirms my theory then.

 

[Cosmos]

Ah it confirms my theory then.

All you need to counter Z4's silent running build is emissive and heat seekers (not even sure you need those actually).. Once the silent running is gone, he's screwed. Although, I'd much prefer others try it if nothing else so I can crush them every time lolz..

This all said we should be fitting our ships and playing how we want.. If we have fun doing it, then thats what we should do.. So good for you Z4, enjoy your build, but don't complain when you come across someone who counters it