2.2's Instant Ship and Module Transport - Yay or Nay?

[kofeyh]

Seeing them arrive would be awesome. I'd also say it would give FD a great excuse to create escort missions, but what do I know?

Heck, I will deliver your ship. For a price. Of course. And if it's in a hot-zone, well. Sure. I can get your ship to Sothis, but it'll cost you plenty.

Haven't you heard about the Millennium Asp? It did the CEOS run in 12 parsecs.

I'll see myself out.

 

[Kestril]

I still don't understand what "balance" is broken by allowing instant ship transfer, but I fail to see how it will effect players through other players when options like "Private group" and "solo" exist in this game.

Verisimilitude, sure, I can see some pilots being puzzled as to how ships can transfer instantly from system to system.

But at the end of the day it's a game. To me, the 1:1 scale becomes an obstruction to fun rather than a feature once I realize I have to make a 10j taxi trip, and then a 20j trip back just to fly my Fer-De-Lance to a new combat site site I found. Put a delay, or a timer in instead, and I feel punished for even having that ship in the first place. I don't think Fdev want to discourage players from trying out the different ships.

It's not going to be free, and players will still have to weigh the cost of transporting ships around. It's not like instant ship transfer eliminates all advantages of outfitting a multirole with decent range as well as combat ability--in fact, you'll save a lot of credits! Furthermore, it gives a reason to keep the small ships. An eagle or dolphin or cobra will take much less credits to transfer than an expensive FDL, Python, or Orca, so players are encouraged to keep the ship meant for their "secondary" role (for those one-off missions or combat sites) very small, so they can save the credits when transporting them. If anything, I think we will see more small, specialized ships flying around in CG hotspots.

I'm really puzzled as to how this thread has gone on for 163 pages for what, to me, seems like a non-issue.

 

[Rune]

Yes to transportation of ships and modules, it's something I've been waiting for since I joined this game in the beta stage and saw it discussed on here.

No to instant transfers though, I imagined we'd have some sort of super hauler for the ship and it could be given a larger jump range to speed up the transfer process and still kept in lore if needed. This could lead to missions such as escort, pirate etc of said haulers to add some dynamic to it. I saw mention of it's not unfeasible that the stations have 3D printers to explain the instant transfers but wouldn't that invalidate engineer upgrades? As soon as a station "printed" a ship with upgrades it would then be able to replicate them and you could just buy them at the station cutting out the need for engineers, so that'd be a pretty poor way to explain it in lore terms.

Transferring ships shouldn't be like sending texts and emails, I don't mind doing missions and other stuff while I wait for it to turn up.

 

[-=VampyrE=-]

Transport - Yes
Instant - Yes - as a casual player it will be a downturn to wait and do NOTHING!

for your example with Email: this is nearly instant Thank you!

 

[WR3ND]

Transport - Yes
Instant - Yes - as a casual player it will be a downturn to wait and do NOTHING!

for your example with Email: this is nearly instant Thank you!

I assume you play the game now. Just keep doing that and have your ship transferred while you do. Or just have it transferred after you log off for the day and it will be there for you tomorrow. You still win.

Why? Because it makes sense and doesn't unbalance the game and ship builds. Many here don't want this becoming just some arcade game when it can viably be avoided, having a richer and more rewarding experience as a result.

 

[Julio Montega]

I am totally up for transportation and having this instantaneous.
Flying low ranged ships and having to switch them for engineer stuff or having a quick spin to mine something
currently is time consuming as heck and i often stop playing due to the amount of time i have to jump to
get my ship.

For sake of playability make it instantaneous, but maybe restrict it,
so you cannot scout with your asp, dock where you are wanted and have your battle-vette for blasting
seals at hand.

If you don't get why i want this transport to happen instantaneously:
We have not the ability to set another location, a.k.a. send a ship beforehand to a destination
you will be in later on, but only to the current location you are docked at.
If that changes, time consumption for reflecting traveltime is totally o.k.

If not, why waste time?

 

[Verax]

It's ridiculous that so many people are concerned about other players being able to instantly gratify from the use of this much needed QOL feature. The fact that they want everyone to suffer a tedious and pointless wait time is absurd. Realism is not a true argument. FTL is not realistic, among many other features existing in the game now. The clear double standard is absurd. If anyone cares so much about their immersion because they are so determined to pretend that Elite is real life and that their real life is nothing but an obligation that allows them to play Elite-- then they can self-impose their own wait time. Catering to this overrepresented niche (on this forum) by ruining the true convenience of this feature would be foolhardy for Frontier-- whose objective should be expanding the viability of their game in a broader market of players that enjoy massive space games. Nothing is forcing these oppositional players to utilize this feature at all or to immediately take advantage of its instantaneous nature. The ONLY reason they care so much is because they do not want other players to be able to do so. That's some bulls**t.

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I am totally up for transportation and having this instantaneous.
Flying low ranged ships and having to switch them for engineer stuff or having a quick spin to mine something
currently is time consuming as heck and i often stop playing due to the amount of time i have to jump to
get my ship.

If not, why waste time?

Great example. This has happened to me on many nights as well because I only had an hour or so to play videogames because REAL LIFE RESPONSIBILITIES AND SOCIAL LIFE are also important so I did not want to waste all of my game time moving my ships somewhere so I could play tomorrow. Being forced to wait for my ships to transfer causes the same issue. I don't want to do something else in game and that's my prerogative. It does not invalidate my style of play.

 

[Shar]

This thread is going around in circles, three players explains how it unbalances the game, then someone posts "I don't understand how it unbalances the game" for god sake people it's not an opinion its a fact it unbalances the frame shift drive mechanics across your fleet you only need one ship with good FSD range your other ships can be hyped for combat with no regard for FSD this effects everybody including the BGS if i turn up in a well balanced ship with FSD range i have to fight ships without that consideration therefore i am compelled to use the same exploit to compete. Do you get it.
There is also the effect it has on the outfitting mechanic the variation in parts availability will become null and void all in the name of ship relocation the trade off is just to big.

Now don't tell me you don't understand just say you don't care about these problems if thats your opinion. but stop trying to pretend there is no problem for the games overall balance because there clearly is. I take heart in the fact that at least 75% of you can see these issues, and have stated instant transport is no good, to the rest, you lot just do my head in.

 

[Ozram]

Transport - Yes
Instant - Yes - as a casual player it will be a downturn to wait and do NOTHING!

for your example with Email: this is nearly instant Thank you!

Why do you have to do nothing? This is not logical. Do you do nothing now? Even if the ships take a "realistic" amount of time to arrive you still have all that free time to do other things than bringing it yourself until it's there. What have you been doing up to this point!?

 

[Shar]

It's ridiculous that so many people are concerned about other players being able to instantly gratify from the use of this much needed QOL feature. The fact that they want everyone to suffer a tedious and pointless wait time is absurd. Realism is not a true argument. FTL is not realistic, among many other features existing in the game now. The clear double standard is absurd. If anyone cares so much about their immersion because they are so determined to pretend that Elite is real life and that their real life is nothing but an obligation that allows them to play Elite-- then they can self-impose their own wait time. Catering to this overrepresented niche (on this forum) by ruining the true convenience of this feature would be foolhardy for Frontier-- whose objective should be expanding the viability of their game in a broader market of players that enjoy massive space games. Nothing is forcing these oppositional players to utilize this feature at all or to immediately take advantage of its instantaneous nature. The ONLY reason they care so much is because they do not want other players to be able to do so. That's some bulls**t.

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Great example. This has happened to me on many nights as well because I only had an hour or so to play videogames because REAL LIFE RESPONSIBILITIES AND SOCIAL LIFE are also important so I did not want to waste all of my game time moving my ships somewhere so I could play tomorrow. Being forced to wait for my ships to transfer causes the same issue. I don't want to do something else in game and that's my prerogative. It does not invalidate my style of play.

Now thats some bull**t.

With less than 25% voting for instant your in denial and in a minority.

 

[Ozram]

It's ridiculous that so many people are concerned about other players being able to instantly gratify from the use of this much needed QOL feature. The fact that they want everyone to suffer a tedious and pointless wait time is absurd. Realism is not a true argument. FTL is not realistic, among many other features existing in the game now. The clear double standard is absurd. If anyone cares so much about their immersion because they are so determined to pretend that Elite is real life and that their real life is nothing but an obligation that allows them to play Elite-- then they can self-impose their own wait time. Catering to this overrepresented niche (on this forum) by ruining the true convenience of this feature would be foolhardy for Frontier-- whose objective should be expanding the viability of their game in a broader market of players that enjoy massive space games. Nothing is forcing these oppositional players to utilize this feature at all or to immediately take advantage of its instantaneous nature. The ONLY reason they care so much is because they do not want other players to be able to do so. That's some bulls**t.

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Great example. This has happened to me on many nights as well because I only had an hour or so to play videogames because REAL LIFE RESPONSIBILITIES AND SOCIAL LIFE are also important so I did not want to waste all of my game time moving my ships somewhere so I could play tomorrow. Being forced to wait for my ships to transfer causes the same issue. I don't want to do something else in game and that's my prerogative. It does not invalidate my style of play.

It wil French Connection UK the entire balance of the game for everyone because you can arrive in your ultra engineered, stripped down aspx 50 LY jump ship and then switch out to your corvette at Jacques, and then hop back to Merope and then to every goddamned CG at will and entirely negate the point of balancing your ships for combat vs travel, creating a situation that negates the value of range, balance and 90% of the ships in the game. How is anyone so thick they cannot see this most obvious of facts?

 

[kofeyh]

It's ridiculous that so many people are concerned about other players being able to instantly gratify from the use of this much needed QOL feature.

Not really, it's more that it makes it a pretty much defacto method to transport ships across the bubble. Because of all things, credits is the only cost. Anyone who has billions in the bank can shift ships pretty much anywhere, any time and makes the entire concept of FSD class, irrelevant.

I only need one ship to go anywhere. I do not now have to balance my ship's design for range, because anything I don't want to drive any more, I can instant spawn wherever I like. That's going to become a defacto option for a lot of people.

I have no problems with instant ship transport. It is a great QOL improvement. But as it currently stands, wealthy commanders now have zero reason to drive expensive ships anywhere. I can get an entire fleet of ships across the bubble in an instant. Just insert credits. That's pretty serious change to mechanics.

Yeah, this is a QOL boon, it's also invalidating the idea that ships have differing jump ranges, depending on fit out. I only need one ship to get to Place A. And that ship can be super cheap, with an engineered FSD.

It's such an amazing QOL improvement, I can't see myself ever driving FDL, or even half of the other ships anywhere. Ever. I can just spawn them in, at will, wherever I want. That's awesome. It's also a bit broken.

edit: people seem to be getting hung up on "so you killjoys don't want ship transport? mean!" which couldn't be more wrong if it tried. I love it. It's just that this makes distance, ship fit out pretty much irrelevant. People can move entire fleets of ships in seconds, after spending a few minutes in a fast ship with good jump range.

 

[Jason S]

I did vote Yay but I suppose have been converted by all the discussion to Nay but cannot change my vote.

Vote changes should be allowed, whoever develops the forum take note of that please.

 

[WR3ND]

...

Having read the whole thread, there are some people I've found that have made several off topic insults to others who aren't worth wasting your time on. Just saying...

 

[Verax]

This thread is going around in circles, three players explains how it unbalances the game, then someone posts "I don't understand how it unbalances the game" for god sake people it's not an opinion its a fact it unbalances the frame shift drive mechanics across your fleet you only need one ship with good FSD range your other ships can be hyped for combat with no regard for FSD this effects everybody including the BGS if i turn up in a well balanced ship with FSD range i have to fight ships without that consideration therefore i am compelled to use the same exploit to compete. Do you get it.
There is also the effect it has on the outfitting mechanic the variation in parts availability will become null and void all in the name of ship relocation the trade off is just to big.

Now don't tell me you don't understand just say you don't care about these problems if thats your opinion. but stop trying to pretend there is no problem for the games overall balance because there clearly is. I take heart in the fact that at least 75% of you can see these issues, and have stated instant transport is no good, to the rest, you lot just do my head in.

There's no opinion involved.

You're just flat out wrong.

Ship roles all retain their value. The only thing added here is convenience of not needing to tediously ferry ships from one port to another.

Trading still requires cargo space. You cannot transfer a ship with cargo in it because you cannot store a ship with cargo in it.

Exploration ships retain their value. You cannot transfer to systems with no port so no one is going to do any better of a job exploring in non-exploration vessels than ever previously done before.

Combat ships are still king in combat, PvE or PvP. No change there. They also still cannot jump any farther under their own power-- meaning they are not any less balanced in terms of being able to pursue other vessels across multiple jumps.

This manufactured argument regarding "balance" is as fallacious as all of the other criticisms of this new feature's instantaneous nature are. It's simply a crock.

All this feature does is remove the tedium from traveling throughout the bubble in certain situations-- primarily moving ships from one distant port to another with the intention of using that ship for a short range activity in another area. People that want others to suffer lots of tedium because they don't have a ship capable of long range jumps are merely being selfish and spiteful. This has nothing to do with balance. Your argument has been destroyed.

 

[Weps]

The fact that they want everyone to suffer a tedious and pointless wait time is absurd.
[...]
The ONLY reason they care so much is because they do not want other players to be able to do so. That's some bulls**t.

You're phrasing this as if there were some obscure player group set out to hurt the rest. That is what is absurd. Please stop it.

No one is opposing ship transfer directly. This has been requested by most players since forever. No one wants players to sit around and get bored, no one wants to dictate other players what to do. People here have been very helpful and considerate and have suggested workarounds. Even when implementing a very long transfer time, the player is not forced to wait at all. This is not the core of the problem.

The only reason players opposing instant transfer care so much is because this drastically changes the way the game is played. Changing one fundamental part of the game, the way ships move around, is a big deal. This is not about immersion, this is about Elite being an ONLINE MULTIPLAYER GAME, and in such a game, either when playing competitively or cooperatively, you are forced to take the path of least resistance when other players do so.

 

[WR3ND]

I did vote Yay but I suppose have been converted by all the discussion to Nay but cannot change my vote.

Vote changes should be allowed, whoever develops the forum take note of that please.

I didn't vote yes or no specifically for either as it isn't something I'll use nor something I really care about.

I did vote that it should take a significant amount of time though for game balancing and immersion reasons.

 

[Sandmann]

It's ridiculous that so many people are concerned about other players being able to instantly gratify from the use of this much needed QOL feature. The fact that they want everyone to suffer a tedious and pointless wait time is absurd. Realism is not a true argument. FTL is not realistic, among many other features existing in the game now. The clear double standard is absurd. If anyone cares so much about their immersion because they are so determined to pretend that Elite is real life and that their real life is nothing but an obligation that allows them to play Elite-- then they can self-impose their own wait time. Catering to this overrepresented niche (on this forum) by ruining the true convenience of this feature would be foolhardy for Frontier-- whose objective should be expanding the viability of their game in a broader market of players that enjoy massive space games. Nothing is forcing these oppositional players to utilize this feature at all or to immediately take advantage of its instantaneous nature. The ONLY reason they care so much is because they do not want other players to be able to do so. That's some bulls**t.

Wow, ego much? I think there should be a delay, and trust me when I say that what you want is NONE of my reasons for it. In fact it would be fair to say that I gave what you might or might now want absolutely zero cosideration when deciding what I wanted. What you or anyone else wants is in fact the single least important thing to me, and to pretty much everyone else. So no, when we say we want a delay it's because we want a delay, not to annoy you (though the fact that you thought so was quite cute and terribly amusing, I admit).

 

[Julio Montega]

Typical evolution of player wishes:
"Do you want a QOL feature like ship transfer?"

Crowd:" Yes! Yes! Must have!"

" O.K. here you go!"

Crowd:" No! Why?! You can't be serious, this is game breaking..."

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
As long as we lack the ability to dictate the location a ship is transfered to,
other than our current station we are docked at,
i do not see the trump in realism.
I simpy don't enjoy myself waiting at the destination for 40 minutes, just
to carry on.

If you can send the ship in beforehand you can do other stuff and eventually do the trip to the
destination to change into your ship waiting for you, which did the trip,
in the same simulated time, you would have needed.

I see setting the final destination to transfer to as a necessity for the simulation aspect,
keeping the immersion of a pilot travelling there, but unless that is implemented,
i simply do not wish to sit and wait and play skyrim, because i simply could play skyrim beforehand...

 

[Verax]

Not really, it's more that it makes it a pretty much defacto method to transport ships across the bubble. Because of all things, credits is the only cost. Anyone who has billions in the bank can shift ships pretty much anywhere, any time and makes the entire concept of FSD class, irrelevant.

I only need one ship to go anywhere. I do not now have to balance my ship's design for range, because anything I don't want to drive any more, I can instant spawn wherever I like. That's going to become a defacto option for a lot of people.

I have no problems with instant ship transport. It is a great QOL improvement. But as it currently stands, wealthy commanders now have zero reason to drive expensive ships anywhere. I can get an entire fleet of ships across the bubble in an instant. Just insert credits. That's pretty serious change to mechanics.

Yeah, this is a QOL boon, it's also invalidating the idea that ships have differing jump ranges, depending on fit out. I only need one ship to get to Place A. And that ship can be super cheap, with an engineered FSD.

It's such an amazing QOL improvement, I can't see myself ever driving FDL, or even half of the other ships anywhere. Ever. I can just spawn them in, at will, wherever I want. That's awesome. It's also a bit broken.

You don't even understand how the feature works. You can't transfer the ship you're in. You cannot teleport your pilot somewhere.

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Typical evolution of player wishes:
"Do you want a QOL feature like ship transfer?"

Crowd:" Yes! Yes! Must have!"

" O.K. here you go!"

Crowd:" No! Why?! You can't be serious, this is game breaking..."

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
As long as we lack the ability to dictate the location a ship is transfered to,
other than our current station we are docked at,
i do not see the trump in realism.
I simpy don't enjoy myself waiting at the destination for 40 minutes, just
to carry on.

If you can send the ship in beforehand you can do other stuff and eventually do the trip to the
destination to change into your ship waiting for you, which did the trip,
in the same simulated time, you would have needed.

I see setting the final destination to transfer to as a necessity for the simulation aspect,
keeping the immersion of a pilot travelling there, but unless that is implemented,
i simply do not wish to sit and wait and play skyrim, because i simply could play skyrim beforehand...

​EXACTLY