So - if insta-teleport & SIN is a thing, why can't we now have market data, for gameplay reasons?

Slopey

Volunteer Moderator
So - if insta-teleport & SIN is a thing, why can't we now have market data, for gameplay reasons?

Seems like FD have reversed their long held and irrevocable position that players shouldn't really own many ships, and that they should cherish them. Now that they want everyone to have loads of ships, and summon them on demand, it's a brave new world of magical ship summoning. Further more, you will be able to pay off/collect a bounty anywhere, via a SIN broker. With that goes any semeblance of decent arguments why we can't have data sent over large distances.

So - given we will be able to teleport ships across the galaxy over large distances, which even Sandro himself admits is a bit "gamey", what can FD's possible opposition be to letting us browse market data in other stations?

We can now also pay off bounties ANYWHERE in the galaxy via SIN brokers - but we can't find out the price of fish one station over?

If "gameplay" is now the overriding concern, it would make sense to let players be able to do that, lest they waste any precious time actually flying somewhere to find what they want to buy isn't available, or isn't at an attractive price (which is pretty much the rationale behind ship teleporting).

It doesn't even need to encompass equipment (which has a random stock element), as equipment and shipyards are now pretty much irrelevant with insta-teleport (especially if you have Jameson access).

(Note this isn't a teleport discussion topic - please use the already massive threadnaughts for that - this is purely about data sharing across the universe).

I simply can't see how FD can defend not being able to see commodity data, when you can magically teleport your ship 200LY instantaneously just by asking, and collect/pay off bounties in other systems.
 
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It's not just trading data, it's the tools to actually make sensible choices about trading itself. How hard would it be to have a "Trading computer" as an internal slot module that added a UI option, class E to A which gave you progressively more granular data about the surrounding LY's of stations, so you can bring up say, 25 LY's worth of stations around you in the first instance, but the information is only approximations, maybe only even trends such as "Above average, average, below average" and possible system states. Then at the other end of the scale you've a fully sortable by commodity list of what each station is buying and selling for and how much they have in stock, up to a range of a couple of hundred LY, allowing you to make reasoned, informed decisions as to what to trade, and how to trade it.

This would be a far better "in game" solution than anything we have at present.
 
Maybe this is because making people wait very long for the transfer is not the best idear because then people might not use it. This would made the option to transfer ships less likely to happen.
Also on the subject of the bounties: its something people have been asking and i can relate with. In the case of the bounties also moving back to a system for a bounty or fines is very tedious (my opinion).
With the Data transfer of markets is already happening with third party websites so is it needed to be in the game aswell?

Sometimes making something more "gamey" is the better thing than giving a option nobody will use because of time.

again this is my opinion.
 
because you can't 3D-print data!

you have to purchase the data before hand,
at a station,
and feed it into a 3D printer,
to print a screen
showing that data.

see?
 

Slopey

Volunteer Moderator
It's not just trading data, it's the tools to actually make sensible choices about trading itself.

Lets start with the low hanging fruit though - just being able to request trading data from another station, like we currently do but which is totally useless - just show the actual prices. Simple to do, would have a massive benefit to gameplay, and is entirely consistent with the new magic fairy dust features.

Trading computers et all can come later - just the raw numbers for now in the "Buy market data" screen, would suffice!
 

Slopey

Volunteer Moderator
because you can't 3D-print data!

you have to purchase the data before hand,
at a station,
and feed it into a 3D printer,
to print a screen
showing that data.

see?

So when I go see the SIN broker, he by definition knows how to contact all the stations in the galaxy so he can pay off/collect anyone's bounty anywhere. So rather than phone up to check a bounty, he simply asks "How much you selling Fish for?".

Job done. No 3D printing required :)
 
Lets start with the low hanging fruit though - just being able to request trading data from another station, like we currently do but which is totally useless - just show the actual prices. Simple to do, would have a massive benefit to gameplay, and is entirely consistent with the new magic fairy dust features.

Trading computers et all can come later - just the raw numbers for now in the "Buy market data" screen, would suffice!

Pedantic point of order... but it's not useless. If you want to source commodities (and don't want to use external sites) then you'll frequently need to buy trade data to in order to trace the commodity origins. :)
 

Jane Turner

Volunteer Moderator
The bounties pay off I can see - much as if you pay £90 and send them your passport you can get some poor sod to stand in a queue all day and get your VISA for you
 
There should be a trade computer that has the commodity prices of the stations you have been to, but they shouldn't be up to date, they should be set at the price when you were there. I can't see why this information can't be stored on your PC as well as it's not 100% up to date it can't be abused either.
 
Seems like FD have reversed their long held and irrevocable position that players shouldn't really own many ships, and that they should cherish them. Now that they want everyone to have loads of ships, and summon them on demand, it's a brave new world of magical ship summoning. Further more, you will be able to pay off/collect a bounty anywhere, via a SIN broker. With that goes any semeblance of decent arguments why we can't have data sent over large distances.

So - given we will be able to teleport ships across the galaxy over large distances, which even Sandro himself admits is a bit "gamey", what can FD's possible opposition be to letting us browse market data in other stations?

We can now also pay off bounties ANYWHERE in the galaxy via SIN brokers - but we can't find out the price of fish one station over?

If "gameplay" is now the overriding concern, it would make sense to let players be able to do that, lest they waste any precious time actually flying somewhere to find what they want to buy isn't available, or isn't at an attractive price (which is pretty much the rationale behind ship teleporting).

It doesn't even need to encompass equipment (which has a random stock element), as equipment and shipyards are now pretty much irrelevant with insta-teleport (especially if you have Jameson access).

(Note this isn't a teleport discussion topic - please use the already massive threadnaughts for that - this is purely about data sharing across the universe).

I simply can't see how FD can defend not being able to see commodity data, when you can magically teleport your ship 200LY instantaneously just by asking, and collect/pay off bounties in other systems.

He is using logic!

RUUUN!
 

Slopey

Volunteer Moderator
Pedantic point of order... but it's not useless. If you want to source commodities (and don't want to use external sites) then you'll frequently need to buy trade data to in order to trace the commodity origins. :)

I beg to differ. The current implementation is totally useless and has been since it was implemented - hence the large variety of 3rd party market tools, all of which would be mostly redundant if you could see prices elsewhere in-game.

Anyway - that's not really my point.

My point is if we can pay of bounties remotely, and teleport ships instantly, why can't we see market data at other stations - it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Prior to SIN brokers and Teleports, at least FD argued with some handwavium that it was consistent in the same manner as comms, but that whole standpoint is blown out of the water imho with the new magical cross-galaxy communications which SIN brokers and shipyards are going to have.
 
So when I go see the SIN broker, he by definition knows how to contact all the stations in the galaxy so he can pay off/collect anyone's bounty anywhere. So rather than phone up to check a bounty, he simply asks "How much you selling Fish for?".

Job done. No 3D printing required :)

nonono. that is not what the SIN broker does.

he makes a 3D scan of your storage of bountie claims and fines.

he pays you.

prints copies.

he jumps into his ships. flies to all the stations. cashes in your bounties and pays your fines.

it is like with photocopy printers. you can photocopy papermoney, but you can't pay with it. the Counterfeiters can.

which is why you pay him for.

for the same reason he does copies first. it would be to easy to take your data storage.

but you can't get trade data from him, because you have no 3D printing modell for that.
 

Goose4291

Banned
Lets start with the low hanging fruit though - just being able to request trading data from another station, like we currently do but which is totally useless - just show the actual prices. Simple to do, would have a massive benefit to gameplay, and is entirely consistent with the new magic fairy dust features.

You mean like we could in 3250?
 
Ask yourself this:
How much effort is it to implement insta ship transfer?
How much effort is it to implement insta bounty collection?
How much (coding) effort is it to implement new station looks?
How much effort is it to implement a really working pricing tool like the offline tools offer?

You see where I'm going with that. Yes, call me cynical, but that's how I see it.
 

Slopey

Volunteer Moderator
Ask yourself this:
How much effort is it to implement insta ship transfer?
How much effort is it to implement insta bounty collection?
How much (coding) effort is it to implement new station looks?
How much effort is it to implement a really working pricing tool like the offline tools offer?

You see where I'm going with that. Yes, call me cynical, but that's how I see it.

What - you mean changing the existing market "data" screen to show prices, rather than what's imported/exported? It's very little work in all probability - they're already getting the supply/demand, just pull the price field instead.
 
What - you mean changing the existing market "data" screen to show prices, rather than what's imported/exported? It's very little work in all probability - they're already getting the supply/demand, just pull the price field instead.
I mean that exactly. Pulling the data, making it available in a meaningful manner, a good UI, search function etc. I'm not sure if that's little work. Could be totally wrong though but that's my explanation why that's not being implemented.
 
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