Should 3D Printing of Ships be in ED?

[Hydrino]

The idea of 3D printing fighters (much less whole ships as a lore reason for instant xfer of ships across space), seems controversial outside of the notion of ship transfer.

To me it breaks a lot of core ideas established by FD in the game. For instance, if 3D printing can instantly create a fighter with engines and weapons and canopy, all in the cargo space of a ship, why doesn't every starport have the ability to make almost every module by 3D printer? What is so special about a slightly bigger ship that the same machines could not produce it, even if it took longer than 20 seconds?

I think Fighters should have to be purchased like SRV's, at a starport. Ships should be able to store more than one, just like SRV's. I do not think FD should have them "printed" within the fighter bay that takes up some few tonnes of cargo space.

 

[kofeyh]

Polls like this are, seriously, a waste of time.

The reality is, the developer will take shortcuts whenever it feels the mechanic isn't a core concept, or pillar of the game (that that then can make it become a core driver for most is apparently beside the point).

We have single button transfer and printable complex spacecraft because this pleases the developer and they just aren't really pivotal to the game. Folks are about to realise that Elite: Dangerous is basically just a game at this point. It's not a simulator. It's your everyday space game.

It stopped being anything other than that when materials and crafting went in (never mind all the other hand-waving); the inexorable path to just a space game will continue at pace.

Recommend making the best of what's left. While it interests you. There is no point seeking consistency; the developer isn't building that. Just a space game.

 

[Hydrino]

Polls like this are, seriously, a waste of time.

The reality is, the developer will take shortcuts whenever it feels the mechanic isn't a core concept, or pillar of the game (that that then can make it become a core driver for most is apparently beside the point).

We have single button transfer and printable complex spacecraft because this pleases the developer and they just aren't really pivotal to the game. Folks are about to realise that Elite: Dangerous is basically just a game at this point. It's not a simulator. It's your everyday space game.

It stopped being anything other than that when materials and crafting went in (never mind all the other hand-waving); the inexorable path to just a space game will continue at pace.

Recommend making the best of what's left. While it interests you. There is no point seeking consistency; the developer isn't building that. Just a space game.

I agree it is just a game and my expectations are always set accordingly. I'll survive no matter what FD ultimately decides.

But for all the posts about ship transfer, I haven't see one dedicated to the printing of fighters, which is a separate topic.

I do think FD listens to backers, especially for topics that gain traction with a lot of posts. I think it is apparent. Obviously they make all the calls for their game, but I also think they do consider what is reasonably 'handwavium', 'rule of cool', or just more fun against whether the idea/mechanic might fundamentally break certain pillars.

3D printing an entire fighter to me breaks the fundamental pillar of module and ship scarcity. While there are a lot of lapses in "realism" DB does speak quite a bit to the realistic underpinnings of the galaxy adding to the game, rather than detracting from it.

Your mileage may differ. Thanks for the response!

 

[Henri]

I much rather prefer a believe able universe to a cqc on a grander scale. Even though it is not out Star Citizen does not seem to cut corners like this. I hope FD comes to it's senses.

 

[kofeyh]

3D printing an entire fighter to me breaks the fundamental pillar of module and ship scarcity.

Many things are expedited in ED, as we're so often reminded, instant recovery after death, instant cargo load, near-instant module changes, and so on. These are all concessions to bring the pace and pulse of the game above that of a small brick.

Where one draws the line, so to speak, will vary. I can see a lot of jocularity around fast travel and many of the people arguing semantics as though pointing out plot holes is the reason more plot holes are just fine, friends, and everything simplified doesn't change anything (which it can and does, but by the time it's noticed it's already past the point of return).

We get these things, because this is what the developer believes will sell the game to the broadest people. This is true. It may not retain anyone for any length of time, as repeated concessions kick in, but it'll shift units and that is what keeps the lights on. It's a market share grab. Nothing more. The market moves around.

And those joking today will have their pet part of the game chased next, and suddenly they will be up in arms. This is just the way it is. We really don't have that much input beyond making suggestion; it's clear there will be fair less engagement with the community going forward. This is now the reality.

 

[mossfoot]

3D printing actually makes a lot of sense and is a logical extension of manufacturing abilities for an SF game. I believe big stations all possess the ability to make ships up to large size this way.

the limiting factor is licensing and intellectual property rights. A bootleg copy is pretty much bound to blow up mid jump (curse you DRM!)

However it shouldn't be used for fighters, because it introduces a number of potential unforeseen problems.

i think ships are better off being sold in kits and assembled in the hanger as needed.

 

[Vasious]

Don't forget AMFUs

Got to remove them as well as they seem to be able to rebuilt any module from 0%

I am sure you would have never used AMFUs anyway, on principal

Also,
you're in favour of Magic ship transfer (your words) here https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...d-Reconsider?p=3635675&viewfull=1#post3635675 but find 3D printing of SLF inconsistent with the game.

How do you reconcile those two view points together?

 

[m0rl0ck]

Polls like this are, seriously, a waste of time.

The reality is, the developer will take shortcuts whenever it feels the mechanic isn't a core concept, or pillar of the game (that that then can make it become a core driver for most is apparently beside the point).

We have single button transfer and printable complex spacecraft because this pleases the developer and they just aren't really pivotal to the game. Folks are about to realise that Elite: Dangerous is basically just a game at this point. It's not a simulator. It's your everyday space game.

It stopped being anything other than that when materials and crafting went in (never mind all the other hand-waving); the inexorable path to just a space game will continue at pace.

Recommend making the best of what's left. While it interests you. There is no point seeking consistency; the developer isn't building that. Just a space game.

Yep, i was hoping for a space sim and thats what i bought based on what i had heard. The first installment seemed to be going in that direction and then i bought horizons and the engineers cured any hope i might have for the game.
You are right, its a space fantasy game, I dont know why i should have expected any better.
Today is the first day i havent played any ED since i first bought the base game about a month ago, and after watching the dev streams and hearing about 2.2 i think im pretty much over it.
To FD: Good luck guys, with the direction you are going you are going to need it.

 

[DragoonKnight]

Why are there only 2 options?
Can a mod please add "No, fighters should not be 3D printed. They should be 4D printed"
That should be a choice we can vote for

 

[kofeyh]

Why are there only 2 options?

Because it's simpler than three, and they do not have to wait for a fourth to appear, being unable to comment until it appears? It's fine.

I agree with a lot of what you say, weirdly. But the sarcasm is being laid on a little thick, no?

 

[Mephane]

3D printing actually makes a lot of sense and is a logical extension of manufacturing abilities for an SF game. I believe big stations all possess the ability to make ships up to large size this way.

And again: yes, 3D printing makes a lot of sense and would be expected to have long since replaced any other form of manufacturing in 1000 years. The problem is, that is incompatible with the very civilization the game depicts, where you haul around manufactured goods and individual items have worth beyond the raw materials that went into making them.

 

[Mohrgan]

I believe it works more like a Ready Bake Oven. I hope there will be the window so we can watch.

 

[mossfoot]

And again: yes, 3D printing makes a lot of sense and would be expected to have long since replaced any other form of manufacturing in 1000 years. The problem is, that is incompatible with the very civilization the game depicts, where you haul around manufactured goods and individual items have worth beyond the raw materials that went into making them.

Except you still need the raw materials. You can't 3D print metal out of plastic or gold out of iron.

 

[Miklos Atreides]

And again: yes, 3D printing makes a lot of sense and would be expected to have long since replaced any other form of manufacturing in 1000 years. The problem is, that is incompatible with the very civilization the game depicts, where you haul around manufactured goods and individual items have worth beyond the raw materials that went into making them.

3D printing itself is a valid technology which is believable in this context. But you are to keep in mind that you most likely cannot print everything. You may print the hull and frames and tanks and other simple stuff.
But you can't print an FSD. Simply because the material they are made off is hardly to print. e.g Tungsten heat resistance will make printing Tungsten containing parts more or less impossible. Yo know what i mean.
and the mass is still the same.
So this variant is a bit strange especially when telling us a bay can print up to 9 fighters. Doing the math class 2 FSD + Class 2 Thrust + Class 2 Power all D to save mass are 6T pure mass. multiplied by 9 = 54 T
putting it in cargo bay of a Keelback (size 5) is 32 Tons. There are no lasers, no shields, no hull yet ???

I believe there is still a lot to clarify.

Regards,
Miklos

 

[K1eaner]

Yes, cause it's the future? And we're in space?

 

[kofeyh]

I believe it works more like a Ready Bake Oven. I hope there will be the window so we can watch.

It's your little ship, and you can print it any way you like. Happy little fighter. There are no ship destructions, just happy little accidents. And when you see another ship? beat the devil out of it [cheeky giggle] that's the best part!

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3D printing itself is a valid technology which is believable in this context. But you are to keep in mind that you most likely cannot print everything. You may print the hull and frames and tanks and other simple stuff.
But you can't print an FSD. Simply because the material they are made off is hardly to print. e.g Tungsten heat resistance will make printing Tungsten containing parts more or less impossible. Yo know what i mean.
and the mass is still the same.
So this variant is a bit strange especially when telling us a bay can print up to 9 fighters. Doing the math class 2 FSD + Class 2 Thrust + Class 2 Power all D to save mass are 6T pure mass. multiplied by 9 = 54 T
putting it in cargo bay of a Keelback (size 5) is 32 Tons. There are no lasers, no shields, no hull yet ???

I believe there is still a lot to clarify.

Regards,
Miklos

To be fair, SpaceX 3D Print their Merlin engines. Giant laser sintering machines that can manage tolerances in raw fabrication that old school casting can only dream about. I have a 3d printer. It's amazing the sorts of shapes it can manage.

Granted printing the complex wiring loom, displays, silicon chips and components, the hydrogen plasma and what not is a little convenient. But we have single button instant transfer, so really there isn't anything off the table to be fair.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

I don't see it as 3d printing anyway. I think they will be kits that get assemble when needed.

 

[Boff'in]

Because we have in-game examples of 3D printers in ED,
auto-fabricators
And
food-cartridges which is the toner for 3D food printers in ED


STOP PUTTING YOU 21RST Century Expectations on 33rd-century technonoly.
Building a ship isn't like printing some crappy 10inch model out of a single uniform plastic.

Ships are built up of multiple components small and large. You can't have the same printer doing "console screen" that are building outer hull, or an engine part.
You will need an production line of Fabricators just doing one or two specialists jobs unique for that build.
Then you need specialist printing and for small components, large components and then putting stuff together.
If you build an anaconda, you need an anaconda-size shipyard. One Fabricator isn't going to "do it all".
These are specialised hanger sized auto-fabricators that can pull one one blue-print - and that's all they are good for.

This will explain why ship parts and modules are not a commodity, even if some parts (modules) are pre-fabricated already from other fabricators.

Printing Laws have also developed.
Falcon-Delacy isn't going to let ANY        get a hold of their blueprints either, otherwise anyone could print out a Cobra.
Those designs aren't going to be floating around galnet, and since you need specialist fabricators to pull of the Cobra build, you'll have your licensed dealers, suppliers, etc etc



--------------------------------------

I find it hilarious that this is the final straw - a viable technology we know will do the job,
when people have been fine with FTL comms, Stations that can jump half a galaxy, Cargo-hatches that has an infinite supply of cargo containers for jettisoning rocks they've found, and hand waving synthesise that required no fabricator, and can create ammunition for a big ship, and somehow follow you out into a scarab to fix,refuel that.

But I will concede to:
Mass of the propossed ships must be along.
Energy being required from the SYStem for the build.
A length of time for the build.

(I had a similar proposal for Synthesis so things like Heat-sinks could be manufactured but not in the heat of combat)

 

[kofeyh]

Because we have in-game examples of 3D printers in ED,
auto-fabricators
And
food-cartridges which is the toner for 3D food printers in ED

I have a 3d printer. They are awesome; you'll note most people don't really care about a mechanic, just the consistency of application. It's apparent that we can build fighters out of source materials; presumably the printer can cough out components, but this isn't happening because that would impact engineers (we could print modular terminals and what not).

So a thing can magically print a ship, but not just as the components of that ship, half of which are engineer resources.

SpaceX print parts of the Merlin engine rather than cast it. The tolerances they can get means final machining is much faster and it's very rapid to incorporate changes to design. Those engine parts are then assembled. This is mostly what we get, some sort of sintering or fabrication tool, that feeds an assembler. It builds components into a fighter we can launch. It's the 33rd century so we must have really nailed the technology by then.

But, again, it's not so much the mechanic, it's that the developer has decided to apply it in an arbitrary fashion; print a fighter, but no CMDR KOFEYH, you can't print modular terminals. It's mean. lol.

 

[Trafalgar Law]

This type of 3d printing technology, while feasible by 3300, doesn't really fit the existing lore of Elite and makes the shortage of modules at some stations, engineers etc. seem really silly if this kind of manufacturing is included in the lore. I'm fine with disassembled fighter drones that are stored for later use, although the space required seems a bit tight I can live with it. Just don't call it 3d printed.