I would waste a few weeks saving up for one of those monster ships. Oh my holy jeez it would be sick to drive a tiny city.
Is the lack of real content why FD have sacrificed galactic scale?
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I would waste a few weeks saving up for one of those monster ships. Oh my holy jeez it would be sick to drive a tiny city.
They can't. It's obvious from what they've given us.
few weeks?
i would guess the prize would be to HIGH that cutter would be considered us a freebie ship cost - - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -
its always what ppl expect from devs.
We are slowly moving in that direction. In 2.1 they made it so that you couldn't land at a facility controlled by a faction that was actively angry with you.....but it is something I think they should expand on. Merely being unfriendly with the controlling faction should result in more harassment (interdictions) by faction members, significant delays in docking at their facilities (& hostile ATC
) and poorer prices for goods and services.Likewise, if you are friendly with a Super Power, then you shouldn't be able to be more than Cordial with the other 2.
specially when they listen to null sec ppl
Indeed...
Anywho: Before everything else, players like consistency in their chosen games... they loath sudden changes. A lessen many a MMO had to learn the hard way in the past. You don't simply change core design philosophies and think it will go down easy with a simple "trust us, it's good!".
few weeks?
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its always what ppl expect from devs.
No, they seem to not be very good at making their great-basis-of-a-game better than that.
Indeed...
Anywho: Before everything else, players like consistency in their chosen games... they loath sudden changes. A lessen many a MMO had to learn the hard way in the past. You don't simply change core design philosophies and think it will go down easy with a simple "trust us, it's good!".
But their previous design philosophy landed us with and infuriating Powerplay grind and a hellish grind for Engineers.
I guess it's a "pick your poison" to the nay-sayers, but I don't mind this user-centered design at all.
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It's not a sudden change, it's a feature. Also onlines games change, things get tweaked, added, improved.Indeed...
Anywho: Before everything else, players like consistency in their chosen games... they loath sudden changes. A lessen many a MMO had to learn the hard way in the past. You don't simply change core design philosophies and think it will go down easy with a simple "trust us, it's good!".
I think its easy to say, there needs to be more local content. The issue though, is of course making it. Frontier is not an AAA publishing house, for good and bad. Because its not, its taken a risk and produced a game genre that was not in fashion. It blazed its own trail. This has been the positive side of the Kickstarter -> Game model.
The downside is, they are not using the profit from a previous hit game, to power a new version of that franchise. Frontier is not Fallout 4
And Fallout 4 is a good analogy for another reason.
Fallout 4 had a very large map, and on that map were a number of hand crafted locations that made that game feel VERY entertaining. It had smaller locations like bombed out houses, through to towns, factories, military bases and so on. Fallout 4 followed that path, and added crafting, pretty much keeping the same engine though.
Bethesda has benefitted from many years of churning out games in the Fantasy setting and SCIFI setting, using this same engine, and basic game model. An open world environment with hand crafted environments. And they did this with increasing budget per generation based on profits from previous generations of game.
Elite Dangerous has been built from the ground up. Im sure the team existed to a large degree. BUT, it was certainly tiny compared to the Bethesda team on Fallout 4, and its budget has been tiny again in comparison. And yet many expect to fly to SOL and see a hand crafted SOLAR SYSTEM!!!!!!, and the same for Alpha Centauri, etc etc etc.
Its just not realistic.
However, I would also say, this is still something players would like to at least see a whiff of. Think about Jaques Station. Why is it such a good idea in ED? Well, for one, its the first station that has some defined character about it. Its not JUST procedural i.e. a bunch of model parts assembled together and give a procedural name. It has a back story, and that starts to make the game feel alive.
Lets look at some of the new features in 2.2.
You now have these CQC models being brought in as locations. GREAT, I hope these are hand placed, to some degree at least, and give a back story. They should, ideally be hand "set dressed" to make them feel as unique as possible. And this extension of these persistent, and more unique locations is REALLY what ED needs.
Frontier also added Capital ship docks, and immediately people asked,"What are these for?" Well, they are both new locations to visit AND they are set dressing. If you arrive at a military station, near a Federation center, then you can expect to see these docks, both with ships in and vacant.
I'd love to see a lot more along these lines. Lets see some locations where these ships can be seen part assembled. That would be epic. I'd love to see a class of ships between Anaconda and Capital ship size. These could be commercial and even super large passenger ships. These would bot be able to dock IN a station, but instead would dock on a frame, near a station, and would use smaller craft to ferry goods, crew and passengers into a station, and down onto a planet surface. These ships would not be playable, but would be used as set dressing in MANY locations, procedurally, to really make space ports into much more complex and vibrant locations. The station would be the center, but these ships and docks surrounding it + ferries would really make these locations come to life.
and, to be fair, this IS where Frontier is heading, generally I mean. They KNOW their game feels dead. They have this entire UNIVERSE to fill, and they have limited resources to do it with. So, its taking time.
But for me, what Frontier has to start doing, as it makes these assets, is to produce one or two, maybe three hand crafted location PER point release. Pick their battles and do these for locations that just make the most sense at first, such as SOL, the Federation, Empire and Alliance capitals. Then as budget allow, ramp up this team to tackle a wider range of locations. Produce stations that are based around racing, at stations were CQC takes place, some kind of ships graveyard, where some kind of mega battle took place. Maybe a system with a n earth type planet that was recently hit by its moon. UNIQUE locations that people can visit and give a feeling that the Universe back story really is happening.
Another idea, would be events. In Elite you got a special cargo that turned out to be Tribbles (see original Star Treck). Why has this kind of fun/pain be skipped in ED? these kind of events, i.e. odd cargo, that turns out to have a plague, or some kind of machinery that turns out to cause random jump freak outs. There are MANY possibilities here. Events that might only happen to VERY few players, like seeing a Generation Ship. This would lend to the fun aspect of the game, and add some curve balls.
But yes, I guess all of this would take time.
BTW, lets put this in perspective eh. In the 90's I worked for a company called the Bitmap Brothers, on a game Z. When I joined the team, the game had been in development for about 2 years already, as I recall. By the time I left, it had just been released and it was two years later.
So, 4 years, for a relatively simple real time strategy game. Frontier have been working on this game now, for what, 3 years? And so, we are seeing a lot of its development in public. And it takes time. But they are working hard, and they ARE delivering I think. I guess we just need to keep on buying paint jobs, mugs and whatnot, and hope for new players as well.
Only time and continued ££$£$ will allow Frontier to deliver on the final vision D Braben has in mind. Which I'd guess is being able to wander your ship, leave it, and visit any location, which would include Earth like planets, with cities etc.
The downside is, they are not using the profit from a previous hit game, to power a new version of that franchise. Frontier is not Fallout 4
And Fallout 4 is a good analogy for another reason.
Fallout 4 had a very large map, and on that map were a number of hand crafted locations that made that game feel VERY entertaining. It had smaller locations like bombed out houses, through to towns, factories, military bases and so on. Fallout 4 followed that path, and added crafting, pretty much keeping the same engine though.
Bethesda has benefitted from many years of churning out games in the Fantasy setting and SCIFI setting, using this same engine, and basic game model. An open world environment with hand crafted environments. And they did this with increasing budget per generation based on profits from previous generations of game.
Elite Dangerous has been built from the ground up. Im sure the team existed to a large degree. BUT, it was certainly tiny compared to the Bethesda team on Fallout 4, and its budget has been tiny again in comparison. And yet many expect to fly to SOL and see a hand crafted SOLAR SYSTEM!!!!!!, and the same for Alpha Centauri, etc etc etc.
Its just not realistic.
However, I would also say, this is still something players would like to at least see a whiff of. Think about Jaques Station. Why is it such a good idea in ED? Well, for one, its the first station that has some defined character about it. Its not JUST procedural i.e. a bunch of model parts assembled together and give a procedural name. It has a back story, and that starts to make the game feel alive.
Lets look at some of the new features in 2.2.
You now have these CQC models being brought in as locations. GREAT, I hope these are hand placed, to some degree at least, and give a back story. They should, ideally be hand "set dressed" to make them feel as unique as possible. And this extension of these persistent, and more unique locations is REALLY what ED needs.
Frontier also added Capital ship docks, and immediately people asked,"What are these for?" Well, they are both new locations to visit AND they are set dressing. If you arrive at a military station, near a Federation center, then you can expect to see these docks, both with ships in and vacant.
I'd love to see a lot more along these lines. Lets see some locations where these ships can be seen part assembled. That would be epic. I'd love to see a class of ships between Anaconda and Capital ship size. These could be commercial and even super large passenger ships. These would bot be able to dock IN a station, but instead would dock on a frame, near a station, and would use smaller craft to ferry goods, crew and passengers into a station, and down onto a planet surface. These ships would not be playable, but would be used as set dressing in MANY locations, procedurally, to really make space ports into much more complex and vibrant locations. The station would be the center, but these ships and docks surrounding it + ferries would really make these locations come to life.
and, to be fair, this IS where Frontier is heading, generally I mean. They KNOW their game feels dead. They have this entire UNIVERSE to fill, and they have limited resources to do it with. So, its taking time.
But for me, what Frontier has to start doing, as it makes these assets, is to produce one or two, maybe three hand crafted location PER point release. Pick their battles and do these for locations that just make the most sense at first, such as SOL, the Federation, Empire and Alliance capitals. Then as budget allow, ramp up this team to tackle a wider range of locations. Produce stations that are based around racing, at stations were CQC takes place, some kind of ships graveyard, where some kind of mega battle took place. Maybe a system with a n earth type planet that was recently hit by its moon. UNIQUE locations that people can visit and give a feeling that the Universe back story really is happening.
Another idea, would be events. In Elite you got a special cargo that turned out to be Tribbles (see original Star Treck). Why has this kind of fun/pain be skipped in ED? these kind of events, i.e. odd cargo, that turns out to have a plague, or some kind of machinery that turns out to cause random jump freak outs. There are MANY possibilities here. Events that might only happen to VERY few players, like seeing a Generation Ship. This would lend to the fun aspect of the game, and add some curve balls.
But yes, I guess all of this would take time.
BTW, lets put this in perspective eh. In the 90's I worked for a company called the Bitmap Brothers, on a game Z. When I joined the team, the game had been in development for about 2 years already, as I recall. By the time I left, it had just been released and it was two years later.
So, 4 years, for a relatively simple real time strategy game. Frontier have been working on this game now, for what, 3 years? And so, we are seeing a lot of its development in public. And it takes time. But they are working hard, and they ARE delivering I think. I guess we just need to keep on buying paint jobs, mugs and whatnot, and hope for new players as well.
Only time and continued ££$£$ will allow Frontier to deliver on the final vision D Braben has in mind. Which I'd guess is being able to wander your ship, leave it, and visit any location, which would include Earth like planets, with cities etc.
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and on both rnt must do for them u can choose to ignore them (ok engineers is moremust to do)
That we will see in beta...
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D
We are slowly moving in that direction. In 2.1 they made it so that you couldn't land at a facility controlled by a faction that was actively angry with you.....but it is something I think they should expand on. Merely being unfriendly with the controlling faction should result in more harassment (interdictions) by faction members, significant delays in docking at their facilities (& hostile ATC
Likewise, if you are friendly with a Super Power, then you shouldn't be able to be more than Cordial with the other 2.
Concur. Also, following the minor faction rep thing, being allied with a MF wouldn't necessarily make you a target by default, unless they were at war/civil war with your allied MF, in which case you would be fair game, as well as your opponents.
That would make the galaxy much more interesting.
Tbere are 4 "groups" in the game I know of-Super Powers, Powers, Factions and Player Groups. Sandro mentioned in a post a month or so ago that they were looking to more explocitly tie together Powers and Factions-so that aiding one helped the other. That would be a huge step forward IMHO.
Here is the issue, in a nutshell.
If FD add a lot of content all over the galaxy then people will say its unrealisitc.
If FD don't then people say the game has no depth and there is nothing to do.
It goes deeper than that though, as if they do start adding more and more remote stuff going on in the galaxy, they then need to add gameplay mechanics to get people around the galaxy quicker. And then of course people lose their **** over that as well ,and you get the 'I quit' 'This game sucks' 'Frontier have ruined my life' posts.
In other words no matter what FD do they simply cannot win.
If FD add a lot of content all over the galaxy then people will say its unrealisitc.
If FD don't then people say the game has no depth and there is nothing to do.
It goes deeper than that though, as if they do start adding more and more remote stuff going on in the galaxy, they then need to add gameplay mechanics to get people around the galaxy quicker. And then of course people lose their **** over that as well ,and you get the 'I quit' 'This game sucks' 'Frontier have ruined my life' posts.
In other words no matter what FD do they simply cannot win.
Sure they can: Crank out the promised content (multi crew, AI crew, faction based AI wing men, atmosphere planets, etc.) faster and don't waste time on stuff like engineers and power play... but I guess that criticism comes a little late.
Nope. Depend on the content, of course. But people are generally happy with content.
Of course! People are, however, also forgetting that space is largely empty. And vast.
Why do they need to get us to be able to get around quicker? That's just us being lazy and wanting things instantly. They could add realistic-seeming ways of enable us to plan, such as having NPCs fly our ships to destinations of our choice. That would be interaction with the gameworld too, not a bad thing! Or if there is some sort of transfer ability, 3D printy or not, have it work in a meaningful manner rather than just be a game-mechanical convenience.
Yes they can! If they think things through and present them in a convincing fashion.
SSo completely hypothetical situation, at some point in the future a thrid bubble opens up (or some sort of gameplay element on the other side of the galaxy. Do you really think people are going to spend 100+ hours getting there? You would have to be a certified nutter to do that.
Not taking anything away from people who have actually traversed the entire galaxy, major achievement, nothing wrong with that, but when (and its when not if) gameplay elements start appearing on the other side of the galaxy shortcuts WILL be required. Just as commander teleportation WILL be required for multicrew.
This is the issue FD have, the more they put in the game the more they need to add unrealistic gameplay elements in order to still keep it fun.
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People would still find something to complain about for each of those. They add atmosphere planets, people complain that they are not realistic enough. They add multicrew, people complain that the necessary commander teleportation 'breaks the game'. They add AI crew and people will complain they are too good/rubbish or people can exploit the game and so on.
When you read the real astronauts reports, one thing that stands out is how incredibly busy they are. There are TONS of stuff to do in a spaceship in the real world. I wouldn't mind adding to that a lot of fictional stuff (aliens, old civilisations ruins and so forth).
Any good designer could find thousands of activities in no time when it comes to a space sim.
Some would. People went to Jacques. I would have gone, but was on the other side of the galactic centre, so missed out on that bit.
Swrong. Because the journey to get there should be fun. That's what is missing. if it takes 100 hours then it takes 100 hours. That's fine. but it should be 100 hours of more than just waiting for the load screen to the next system repeated 1000 times with nothing between the next load screen. Unrealistic elements aren't needed to circumvent the time it takes. Time is integral to the scale.
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