Combat zones in a kitted out Anaconda are a death trap - return to game after 6 months

[Fearless Leader]

A lot of you guys aren't actually reading my full post so to TLDR some stuff:
- This is about powerplay Crime Sweep zones, I don't get to wait to pick sides it's done automatically
- The issue is I spawn a new instance when I drop in and before I even deploy hardpoints my shields are shredded*
- As a note, I have been in a lot of combat, both PVE and PVP in the core game and in CQC, I do understand the basics of combat and, as with my story below, when I get to fight I do okay
- Again to make it super clear, the issue is being auto targeted by all enemy AI's upon dropping into (and spawning) a new instance.
- I try to make combat worth my time financially, it is my favourite part of the game but if I get no or less than half the progression I would get from something like trading it just isn't worth it.

*(I believe this is due to spawning a new instance with 0 threat generated - as in no-one has yet fired a shot, AI probably sees a "Deadly" Anaconda as pretty high base threat so I become default target)

Hey so,

I didn't play ED for like 6 months, came back since loads of cool new stuff seems to have been added (engineers etc) and went to restore some of my powerplay rating by fighting at a crime sweep. Now I'm in a pretty much top-of-the-line combat Anaconda with huge shields and loads of shield boosters etc.

I jump in to this crime sweep for the first time and instantly every enemy in the instance attacks me, my shields drop by 60% in the first 3 seconds and I am boosting the hell out, I finally get about 12k from the centre of the crime sweep and let my shields recharge and then make my way in from the outside and kill a few (4 ships) but before long I'm finding I have to work very hard just to take out very small ships and they have to work far less hard to deplete my shields and get to work on my hull - which is not financially viable, if I lose hull % just fighting a viper it's simply not worth it.

Eventually my shields drop and I take some small hull damage so I jump out.

After this, I let my shields recharge and jump back in, this time my shields drop to 0 almost instantly and I take 40% hull damage before I can jump.
I go repair, come back, this time there are no enemies but about 8 friendlies in the instance so I sorta wait for a bit and then 15 or so appear from nowhere and instantly ALL 15 ATTACK ME, every red triangle on my radar was flashing white. I jump instantly but lose 40% hull AGAIN.

This is starting to cost money but I try again anyway and this time I lose almost all my shield but feel like I can boost clear and reset... I was wrong... I was chased by a Viper mk IV and a cobra. I kept thinking they'd eventually turn around and I could reset but that didn't happen so I jumped out... again.

Basically it feels like owning an anaconda is pointless. I don't know what has changed in 6 months but it feels like FD have tried to make ships more equal to the point that owning an Anaconda is a death trap because it dies just as fast as everything else except it's slower (can't outrun to survive), less maneuverable (can't actually target small ships without using turrets) and it costs far more to run and repair.

To put it bluntly I feel betrayed, like I am actually punished for the hours I put into the game previously (which are a lot relatively speaking - currently Deadly, Merchant, Trailblazer).

Is there some trick I am missing? Are big ships secretly still actually useful at all for anything but trading?

 

[Muetdhiver]

Yeah, un-engineered large ships kind of got the shaft with 2.1

There are some things to check :

1) If you use turrets, do not put them on fire at will in a CZ. I had trouble with my conda, and this was the cause, i.e. turrets agroing everyone XD
2) NPC loadouts have changed and they are better at staying on your six. They tend to pack loads of railguns that they can spam to no end and with no regards to heat. This punishes large ships that have a hard time dodging.
3) Four pips to shields is life in CZ. It should be the base line (I have two settings, 4shields / 2eng or 4shields / 2weaps)
4) Some are not going to like it but here it is : Large ships get the most out of engineered shields and boosters. We're speaking x3 effective strength. With my corvette I get close to 5K effective shielding, and with 4pips in sys that can take a serious pounding. And I mean serious. I went into Haz res with some cargo to see, and 1v8 was not a problem.

 

[Deleted member 38366]

Unmodded Ships got thrown back quite a bit - with emphasis on big Ships due to agility.

I experienced the same occasionally using FAS, FdL or a Corvette. Doable, but at times quite difficult.

It wasn't until after Grade 5 Mods were applied, that many of these Ships began shining again.
And even then I still get beaten up quite badly once in a while.

Spoiler

(ah c'mon... just that 4% Viper Mk.IV there and then I'm out. FSD eating a few hits I guess.)

(that guy has friends though. Lots of Friends. And they don't like me. And my FSD obviously doesn't like them - cause it's gone. 0% FSD and all alone in an angry Hornet nest xD)

(*yay*... FA off rotate to face-tank and protect Engines, AFMU the FSD back to 2% while eating Missile after Missile and PA after PA and keep turning the key, hoping it fires up - but thanks to Grade 5 Heavy Duty Armour and HRPs even that is doable. Ugly - but doable.)

-------------------------
Without Engineers - probably none of above would have worked. I likely would have simply blown up, just for being cocky and quitting in time.

 

[Deadspin]

To add on to what Muetdhiver said:

-NPC AI received a serious overhaul.

Those combat ranks actually mean something now.

 

[Fearless Leader]

So basically if you don't have Horizons expansion (for engineers) with a big ship you are screwed? Well I'm a kickstarter backer with life time expansion pass but this does make me feel bad for everyone who doesn't have Horizons.

I'll go do Engineers stuff (it's all completely new to me) and see how that goes!

Thanks all for your advice =)

 

[Muzz UK]

Disagree with the guys above.

An A rated Anaconda without engineer upgrades should still be fine. The new AI makes better use of thrusters, flight assist and weapons now so you'll need to learn your combat skills again after a 6 month break.

Not sure why 15 ships attacked you at once never had that... just try and stay near the police until you aren't rusty anymore. You don't need engineers or Horizons to beat the AI that's just stupid talk. I have 2 friends in a Cobra and a Vulture who do just fine in RES sites and conflict zones!

 

[d8veh]

Hey so,

I didn't play ED for like 6 months, came back since loads of cool new stuff seems to have been added (engineers etc) and went to restore some of my powerplay rating by fighting at a crime sweep. Now I'm in a pretty much top-of-the-line combat Anaconda with huge shields and loads of shield boosters etc.

I jump in to this crime sweep for the first time and instantly every enemy in the instance attacks me, my shields drop by 60% in the first 3 seconds and I am boosting the hell out, I finally get about 12k from the centre of the crime sweep and let my shields recharge and then make my way in from the outside and kill a few (4 ships) but before long I'm finding I have to work very hard just to take out very small ships and they have to work far less hard to deplete my shields and get to work on my hull - which is not financially viable, if I lose hull % just fighting a viper it's simply not worth it.

Eventually my shields drop and I take some small hull damage so I jump out.

After this, I let my shields recharge and jump back in, this time my shields drop to 0 almost instantly and I take 40% hull damage before I can jump.
I go repair, come back, this time there are no enemies but about 8 friendlies in the instance so I sorta wait for a bit and then 15 or so appear from nowhere and instantly ALL 15 ATTACK ME, every red triangle on my radar was flashing white. I jump instantly but lose 40% hull AGAIN.

This is starting to cost money but I try again anyway and this time I lose almost all my shield but feel like I can boost clear and reset... I was wrong... I was chased by a Viper mk IV and a cobra. I kept thinking they'd eventually turn around and I could reset but that didn't happen so I jumped out... again.

Basically it feels like owning an anaconda is pointless. I don't know what has changed in 6 months but it feels like FD have tried to make ships more equal to the point that owning an Anaconda is a death trap because it dies just as fast as everything else except it's slower (can't outrun to survive), less maneuverable (can't actually target small ships without using turrets) and it costs far more to run and repair.

To put it bluntly I feel betrayed, like I am actually punished for the hours I put into the game previously (which are a lot relatively speaking - currently Deadly, Merchant, Trailblazer).

Is there some trick I am missing? Are big ships secretly still actually useful at all for anything but trading?

Dear oh dear! Yes, you are missing a trick. No need to feel betrayed or inadequate. Take your Anaconda to the engineers to get level 5 shields, shield boosters, thrusters and weapons, then go back to your crime sweep and demand a bit of respect from those insolent NPCs.

 

[Vasious]

CZ rules for ships of all sizes

Move out of the combat zone before picking sides

Manoeuvre about and position yourself after doing so, so see where the engagements are occurring, and what the disposition in terms of ship types and ratings there are on each side.

Pick Targets that are out numbers already, friends to draw enemy fire

Pair up with a ship the opposite size to you so you have mutual support. I.e. if in a Big ship stick with some small ones, who will help you with small manoeuvrable enemies. If in a small ship pick a big ship as a buddy who will tank for you, the NPCs are your friends.

Pay attention to Combat ratings of enemies, Higher rated ones have rail guns and plasma and will make you know it, top ones may have Mods

Watch your Scanner at all times, even if you are picking on a single enemy with friends, enemy ships may kill their foes and come and help their comrade even the odds and striking whilst you have tunnel vision on your target.

If you clear the area of enemies , immediate FAOFF and BOOST! A New Enemy Wing will be in bound, you don't wont to be on the receiving end of their arrival alpha strike.

If ever outnumbered immediate FAOFF and BOOST away and leave

If you lose shields immediate FAOFF and BOOST away to recharge, watch who follows you, they may give up and seek another target, if they don't and stick with you it means you side is losing and expect more emeries to chase you.

Pip Management 4 pips to shields gives a 40% boost to defence, you want 4 pips to SYS any time you are about to receive fire

 

[Muetdhiver]

If you don't have Hz, it's not a big problem.

You just have to be more carefull and mindfull of what you getting yourself into with your large ships since 2.1.
If you want to yollo in 6-7 ennemy ships, then yeah, you need horizon.

If you pick your fight, avoid fire at will turrets and generally pilot well (good pip management, good use of SCB's/heat sinks, FAOFF a lot) vanilla big ships are still performing just fine

 

[Kzak]

Since 2.1 you'll also need to know how to use FA OFF at key moments so you'll more easily win turning-wars against the AI. Enter a turning-war, if the AI can out-turn you, use FA OFF and keep turning. When you have the AI in your sights again, use FA ON and fire at will.

 

[iFred]

They are only a death trap if you have your turrets set to fire at will. This is like wearing a "kick me"-sign in school.

 

[jasonbarron]

Stay out of a CZ until you get a handle on how the new 2.1 NPC's fly. You previously learned to fight them on 'easy' mode. Now they're set to 'slightly less easy' and it takes a bit of practice.

 

[aRJay]

While you were gone the NPCs went to Top Gun and the ones in the smaller/more agile ships were taught how to get into blind spots and stay there. If you still remember how to fight NPCs then you need to forget those techniques and start over learning new ones.

Other things have changed as well, missiles are more effective so PD turrets are strongly recommended, turrets are more accurate and far less prone to friendly fire incidents, top end NPCs have some lower grade engineered weapons but the instant kill Gatling Plasma Accelerators that they developed themselves have been removed.

 

[777Driver]

Disagree with the guys above.

An A rated Anaconda without engineer upgrades should still be fine. The new AI makes better use of thrusters, flight assist and weapons now so you'll need to learn your combat skills again after a 6 month break.

Not sure why 15 ships attacked you at once never had that... just try and stay near the police until you aren't rusty anymore. You don't need engineers or Horizons to beat the AI that's just stupid talk. I have 2 friends in a Cobra and a Vulture who do just fine in RES sites and conflict zones!

Pretty much this ^ engineered mods are not needed, they can certainly make up for any skill deficiency with PvE, that's about it. PvP is a whole different story.

 

[d8veh]

It's true that engineer mods aren't necessary, but they definitely make everything a lot easier. Who could argue that more fire-power, stronger shields and more speed is not going to be an advantage. There's no doubt in my mind that level 5 upgrades on an Anaconda makes a crime sweep zone easy in PvE.

 

[The Tick]

To OP: besides all the great tactical tips (which basically allow you to survive a CZ now even in a decent small ship), you could post your actual ship configuration to get some outfitting advice. 'in a pretty much top-of-the-line combat Anaconda with huge shields and loads of shield boosters' is pretty unspecific.

 

[Deleted member 115407]

Not sure why 15 ships attacked you at once never had that... just try and stay near the police until you aren't rusty anymore. You don't need engineers or Horizons to beat the AI that's just stupid talk. I have 2 friends in a Cobra and a Vulture who do just fine in RES sites and conflict zones!

I ran a High CZ in my Cobra III last night and did fine.

As for the 15 ships thing, I was going to comment on it but am not sure if you're talking about Conflict Zones or Res sites. If conflict zones, two things can cause the whole place to go nuts on you...

-Carelessness. Causing enough collision or shot damage on your allied ships
-Impatience. Selecting your faction before everything has a chance to spawn

To fix the latter, when you drop in just move about 8km away from the center. By the time you get there, everything should have spawned and you can declare and move back in to work the bait ball from the edge.

I also concur that you could spend some time outside of the CZs, re-learning the fight mechanics.

I don't like the term furball. I'm going to just call them bait balls from now on

 

[Fearless Leader]

Disagree with the guys above.

An A rated Anaconda without engineer upgrades should still be fine. The new AI makes better use of thrusters, flight assist and weapons now so you'll need to learn your combat skills again after a 6 month break.

Not sure why 15 ships attacked you at once never had that... just try and stay near the police until you aren't rusty anymore. You don't need engineers or Horizons to beat the AI that's just stupid talk. I have 2 friends in a Cobra and a Vulture who do just fine in RES sites and conflict zones!

Okay to make it super clear, most of the times that I went into this combat zone I had no chance to use my piloting skills. 4 out of 5 attempts I had to boost away from the centre and then was forced to jump anyway or simply jump immediately to avoid being destroyed. Only the first entry did I manage to get far enough out to reset/survive and then fight and I did okay then. The problem is more that the AI seems to instantly focus me, stopping whatever else their doing to do so. What I think is happening is I am dropping into the instance (spawning it as no-one else is there yet) and all the AI ships target their 'highest threat' and a "Deadly" Anaconda has to be pretty high up on the list (before any shots have been fired) so they probably all just default to me at the start. This is unfortunate however as it not only breaks immersion (having spontaneously spawning battles that start with 0 data is very obvious) but also makes it artificially difficult to enter an instance on your own or without it already being active.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

CZ rules for ships of all sizes

Move out of the combat zone before picking sides

Manoeuvre about and position yourself after doing so, so see where the engagements are occurring, and what the disposition in terms of ship types and ratings there are on each side.

Pick Targets that are out numbers already, friends to draw enemy fire

Pair up with a ship the opposite size to you so you have mutual support. I.e. if in a Big ship stick with some small ones, who will help you with small manoeuvrable enemies. If in a small ship pick a big ship as a buddy who will tank for you, the NPCs are your friends.

Pay attention to Combat ratings of enemies, Higher rated ones have rail guns and plasma and will make you know it, top ones may have Mods

Watch your Scanner at all times, even if you are picking on a single enemy with friends, enemy ships may kill their foes and come and help their comrade even the odds and striking whilst you have tunnel vision on your target.

If you clear the area of enemies , immediate FAOFF and BOOST! A New Enemy Wing will be in bound, you don't wont to be on the receiving end of their arrival alpha strike.

If ever outnumbered immediate FAOFF and BOOST away and leave

If you lose shields immediate FAOFF and BOOST away to recharge, watch who follows you, they may give up and seek another target, if they don't and stick with you it means you side is losing and expect more emeries to chase you.

Pip Management 4 pips to shields gives a 40% boost to defence, you want 4 pips to SYS any time you are about to receive fire

Please read the original post, it's a crime sweep, powerplay combat zone, I don't get to wait to pick sides.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

I ran a High CZ in my Cobra III last night and did fine.

As for the 15 ships thing, I was going to comment on it but am not sure if you're talking about Conflict Zones or Res sites. If conflict zones, two things can cause the whole place to go nuts on you...

-Carelessness. Causing enough collision or shot damage on your allied ships
-Impatience. Selecting your faction before everything has a chance to spawn

To fix the latter, when you drop in just move about 8km away from the center. By the time you get there, everything should have spawned and you can declare and move back in to work the bait ball from the edge.

I also concur that you could spend some time outside of the CZs, re-learning the fight mechanics.

I don't like the term furball. I'm going to just call them bait balls from now on

As with the other guy, if you read the OP you would see this is about powerplay crime sweep zones.

 

[Cmdr Mnumen]

A lot of you guys aren't actually reading my full post so to TLDR some stuff:
- This is about powerplay Crime Sweep zones, I don't get to wait to pick sides it's done automatically
- The issue is I spawn a new instance when I drop in and before I even deploy hardpoints my shields are shredded*
- As a note, I have been in a lot of combat, both PVE and PVP in the core game and in CQC, I do understand the basics of combat and, as with my story below, when I get to fight I do okay
- Again to make it super clear, the issue is being auto targeted by all enemy AI's upon dropping into (and spawning) a new instance.
- I try to make combat worth my time financially, it is my favourite part of the game but if I get no or less than half the progression I would get from something like trading it just isn't worth it.

*(I believe this is due to spawning a new instance with 0 threat generated - as in no-one has yet fired a shot, AI probably sees a "Deadly" Anaconda as pretty high base threat so I become default target)

Hey so,

I didn't play ED for like 6 months, came back since loads of cool new stuff seems to have been added (engineers etc) and went to restore some of my powerplay rating by fighting at a crime sweep. Now I'm in a pretty much top-of-the-line combat Anaconda with huge shields and loads of shield boosters etc.

I jump in to this crime sweep for the first time and instantly every enemy in the instance attacks me, my shields drop by 60% in the first 3 seconds and I am boosting the hell out, I finally get about 12k from the centre of the crime sweep and let my shields recharge and then make my way in from the outside and kill a few (4 ships) but before long I'm finding I have to work very hard just to take out very small ships and they have to work far less hard to deplete my shields and get to work on my hull - which is not financially viable, if I lose hull % just fighting a viper it's simply not worth it.

Eventually my shields drop and I take some small hull damage so I jump out.

After this, I let my shields recharge and jump back in, this time my shields drop to 0 almost instantly and I take 40% hull damage before I can jump.
I go repair, come back, this time there are no enemies but about 8 friendlies in the instance so I sorta wait for a bit and then 15 or so appear from nowhere and instantly ALL 15 ATTACK ME, every red triangle on my radar was flashing white. I jump instantly but lose 40% hull AGAIN.

This is starting to cost money but I try again anyway and this time I lose almost all my shield but feel like I can boost clear and reset... I was wrong... I was chased by a Viper mk IV and a cobra. I kept thinking they'd eventually turn around and I could reset but that didn't happen so I jumped out... again.

Basically it feels like owning an anaconda is pointless. I don't know what has changed in 6 months but it feels like FD have tried to make ships more equal to the point that owning an Anaconda is a death trap because it dies just as fast as everything else except it's slower (can't outrun to survive), less maneuverable (can't actually target small ships without using turrets) and it costs far more to run and repair.

To put it bluntly I feel betrayed, like I am actually punished for the hours I put into the game previously (which are a lot relatively speaking - currently Deadly, Merchant, Trailblazer).

Is there some trick I am missing? Are big ships secretly still actually useful at all for anything but trading?

Seems reasonable... every time I go in a CZ with my Viper I target the nearest enemy 'conda cos it'd worth the most to destroy! Why wouldn't the AI pilots (who presumably are also in it for the $$) do the same?

 

[Deleted member 115407]

A lot of you guys aren't actually reading my full post so to TLDR some stuff:
- This is about powerplay Crime Sweep zones, I don't get to wait to pick sides it's done automatically

Well, in our defense, OP, anyone who doesn't engage in powerplay would have no reference of crime sweeps, and your thread title says "Combat Zones", so I just assumed you were talking about CZs.

Sorry about that.