Fact is, I have cut FDev a lot of slack over the last 18-20 months, & earned myself some pretty perjorative titles for defending them. This is one design choice, however, in which I cannot support them. Its just bad game mechanics designed solely to please the CoD/BF crowd......the same crowd that will abandon the game the moment the newest CoD/BF title gets released.
Should ship transfers have a time delay or not?
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Much as I see it too. I've also never had a go at FD before for anything. Even the PVP Pay to win, balance shattering Engineers I gave a pass in the hopes that they'd balance it out eventually but this is one step too far. Honestly haven't logged on in a couple of days (not as protest) because it put me off so much.
and this is where i must call you lot out for your infantile actions and generalisations. You say they are pandering to the Call of Duty/Battlefield crowd. A group who wouldn't touch the game in the first place. What we have instead is a bunch of forum warriors throwing their toys out of the prams and acting like man-children who being of an age when they know better. Many in this lot are old enough to have played Elite in their childhood or their young adult years and yet your all acting like this CoD/Battlefield group by throwing generalisations around and holding your breath and stomping your feet like children just because FDev has the gall to make a mechanic that'd help those who don't have the time to trek backwards and forwards shuttling their ships about.
Now to trigger some people why can't we play video games?
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All of us?, really?, you positive on that 'fact'?
unlike the post i replayed to i have not inferred that all are this. Just a great many.
I think you are wrong Lupis, there are fringe cases on both sides of the argument that have been a bit extreme for sure, the majority have been having fairly reasoned debate on the issue. Sure, it's got a bit heated sometimes but there is nowt wrong with a bit of passion as long as it isn't too personal.
Again with your phony generalizations. As a person with a full time job & very limited time to play the game, I hate this mechanic-in its proposed state-as I see all the ways in which it undermines other key aspects of game-play.....and I am not alone in this view. So, if the feature is not desired by so many of the very "casuals" we are meant to believe this feature is designed for......then for whose benefit is it?
BTW, worrying that they might be breaking the game to satisfy a transient part of the player base is not "throwing the toys out of the pram".
Not from what i've seen.
The only real calm side are the moderates like me who want the transfer but aren't against a reasonable cost or delay (though my limit is 30 minutes) . Because those who've been against it can be clearly seen using semantics and hyperbole like it's going out of fashion. While the others are run around in circles.
But his point remains true, even if his comparisons appear a little brusque. This implementation isn't about immersion, it's a short-cut to deal with an expanding space and the hope that this will engage players into jumping into events that would otherwise be too far to take their second ships. It's not really about enriching the universe, it's about making the game elements more accessible to players. If you look at the forums, the players here very much appreciate the expanse of Elite. They like the scale, they like the win from having defied that scale. This action isn't for those people. It's for people who pop onto Elite, some with little time, who FDev want to get involved in some of the community action and storylines to keep them interested and engaged. Those types haven't the patience - or interest for the long trek in space. FDev hopes they'll stick around with a few shortcuts to the events and goals, so you get a mini-game attitude where you can swap your role depending on the game you want to play.
I get that, I'm not disparaging against that move because they have the reports, the stats, the market info. If they need to appeal to people who don't enjoy treking, who might enjoy the space fights and pew pew more (which is where the shooter genre gets noted), there's probably reason behind that madness... BUT theses forums represent a large loyal following who have supported and enjoyed the ideals and splendor of Elite, and a large proportion are very, very, very happy judging by the forum threads and scale of posts (and poll results). I think FDev needs to do more than defend themselves with 3D printers. I think a middleground has to be found between those who have enjoyed the depth of Elite and feel their game is moving away from its original direction, and encouraging new blood. If it can't be one or the other, and both matter, a middle ground that isn't some vague notion of 3d printers is required. That's not going to make it better!
EDIT: And as a final point, I like you, am happy for a middleground result. I do think this debate has been very intense, but civil and educated. Compare to the Engineers threads which were just ugly.
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Don;t you think you are looking at this from a biased angle though, go check the mega threead again, you will find lots of reaosned debate from both sides. I think you are being harsh because you want no delay or a short delay, thus, you attack the other side.
It sounds increasingly to me like you are the one "throwing a tantrum" here. So afraid that you might miss out on a nice little exploit, so seek to attack anyone who opposes it in a rather sad attempt at argumentum ad hominem.
so Doctor Who, how did the beta go? Did Trump win? Please tell me what you've seen with your time machine.
Oh right the beta isn't out. How about all wait till the beta is out before you say no this doesn't work.
Also i've yet to hear of one exploit this feature would have, aside from convenience of course, heavens forbid something is convenient in a video game.
Many of us are all for convenience Lupis and a delayed ship transfer would still be a QOL improvement on what we have now. I can only speak for myself but I know it is true of others, what we are not comfortable with is people seeing less of this beautiful 1:1 galaxy, people having pewdelances with 0.3 ly jump ranges, the lore being dumped on from a great height, the new 'meta's that will influence CG's, the BGS, powerplay and more. Many, many of us wanted Elite to remain as much as possible true to it's very roots, with some notable additions of course, we didn't and don't want Elite to become <insert generic title here>.
You know... in the end I could easily accept a delay. Being able to call your ship to your present location will be a boon to all. If there was a good reason beyond expecting everyone to uphold some players 'immersion'. I'm not responsible for other players immersion, just like I'm not responsible for my neighbors property values.
If FD doesn't see a need, or any benefit, to have the delivery time be based on the general flight mechanics, then instantaneous is as good as any other idea. How much more realistic is traveling 100 lys in 30 seconds, as opposed to zero? Once a player has to accept a lack of realism, why have the pretense of it? We accept the lack of realism in a number of ways. All behind the scenes, why not just see this for what it is. A way to help time starved Commanders get into the content they want without the unnecessary delays. What's the difference in calling your ship and grabbing a drink waiting on the delay, to calling your ship and grabbing a drink after the ship has arrived?
If FD doesn't see a need, or any benefit, to have the delivery time be based on the general flight mechanics, then instantaneous is as good as any other idea. How much more realistic is traveling 100 lys in 30 seconds, as opposed to zero? Once a player has to accept a lack of realism, why have the pretense of it? We accept the lack of realism in a number of ways. All behind the scenes, why not just see this for what it is. A way to help time starved Commanders get into the content they want without the unnecessary delays. What's the difference in calling your ship and grabbing a drink waiting on the delay, to calling your ship and grabbing a drink after the ship has arrived?
Why don't we hold our developers and IP's that we love to higher standards though, when did 'immersion' and 'lore' become dirty words in the gaming industry?
Stop being selective about holding your developers and IP's up to higher standards and you might find more of us give a damn about your 'immersion' and 'lore'. RNGineers for example, that could have done with a nice meaty threadnaught, Powerplay, etc.
One would still have to traverse the 1 to 1 galaxy to reach the desired destination. A 0.3 ly capable ship of any description would be in the reach of any Commander that felt the desire. This change wouldn't be available to just the guys you want to insult. You could counter that pewdelance using the same mechanics. Balance is assured. With all of the stuff that happens instantaneously now, how could one addition, that everyone could take advantage of, be a step too far?
Well here's the thing. Some had said that with this they'd see no ships. Thing is you'd still have to do one journey to get to said station to transfer ships.
I'm sure many would do that. But for me this allows me to centralise my fleet of ships and finally get back to my home system and go back to system bounty hunting.
And i don't want Elite: Dangerous to be <inset hardcore simulator title here, governed by the forums>
How the hell can I stop being selective, I have IP's and lore that I like and those I'm not too bothered about, what a strange statement to make. Don't get me wrong I agree on powerplay, (not so much engineers), but powerplay is easily avoidable if you do not enjoy it, instant ship transfer is not.
Yes.
I personally favour a delay. Not just for immersion, but to counter the various exploits that have been discussed. Adding a delay now prevents these and other future problems.
As I said earlier, however, I am also sympathetic to those who want instantaneous transit.
Personally, however, the long term drawbacks of that are, IMO, not worth it as a default setting.
As an optional setting? I could see it working.
Let's say you are in a sector of space and your other ship is - for whatever reason - 10k LYs away. That's say - 500 Jumps. If we allow 20s per jump, no refuelling and no docking, no sightseeing and no combat...that's a 3 hour wait.
How often do you need a ship now and cannot wait "3 hours"? Of course, maybe your ship is 100k Lys away and you need to wait 30 hours.
Solutions?
1: You can buy a ship at the station you are at. Doable for some, but there may be issues getting the ship you want and the equipment you prefer.
2: You can rent a ship. This would need to be a new feature, and again, there may be limitations on choice and equipment.
3: You can go get the ship you want...but then you'd have travel time and you'd have to use a ship to get back.
4: You can have the ship brought to you. But - to preserve immersion and combat exploits, there would need to be a cost, and a delay in receiving the ship.
Options 1 and 3 are in the game already. But they aren't perfect.
Options 2 and 4 are not in the game. They would need to be added in as a new feature.
Option 4 also has the downside that you would need to determine cost and time.
Option 4, to work, should - IMO - have two settings.
A "standard" option. The ship can be transported to you at a reasonable (but still significant) cost, but there would be a time delay. This may be shorter than standard, It may be longer than standard. The key purpose of this option is not to get the ship to you quickly...but simply to move it.
And secondly...the express option. The ship will again be transported to you, but at a very expensive cost to get it there within 10 or 15 minutes. Fluff it away as using a Galactic Hyperdrive and give that tech enough drawbacks to ensure the player can't have one.
I don't see any reason why BOTH options can't be used. The express option and the standard option.
There is another issue - cost. If you make the transit option too cheap, it will be abused. But too expensive....and it may be that buying and outfitting a new ship will be much more worthwhile and the transit option will rarely be used.
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